SUNDRIVE
10 W
Awww, stop it Allex, I'd at least like to finish my FLX Alpha before I start lusting after a younger slimmer model!
What motor is that ?
What motor is that ?
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Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics
- Thread starter Hyena
- Start date
SUNDRIVE
10 W
Oh yeah, Leaf 35mm, too busy with the porn didnt notice the text !
Allex
100 MW
Thx guys 
Here is 18s6p with Midi-e inside.
I have placed 2 cells on top, this would make it 18s7p still not sure on what to go with, a bit less weight or slighly more "oomph"
Final weight is now 33kg if I add another row of cells it will be 34kg.
It is said that the Figher weights 34kg but I doubt it, given that it has a heavier motor, rims/tyres and battery
Here is 18s6p with Midi-e inside.
I have placed 2 cells on top, this would make it 18s7p still not sure on what to go with, a bit less weight or slighly more "oomph"
Final weight is now 33kg if I add another row of cells it will be 34kg.
It is said that the Figher weights 34kg but I doubt it, given that it has a heavier motor, rims/tyres and battery
Hyena
10 GW
This is something that changed with V2 (and possibly the later batch of the V1s) The later models are made with thinner material along the bottom (and possibly elsewhere?) with extra reinforcing ribs to maintain strength and rigidity. I discussed it with the factory at the time but dont recall the exact specifics and numbers. Basically though the V2 is a bit lighter as a result, I think around the 800g mark from memory. Not a night and day difference on a heavy ebike but traditional mountain bikers would be wetting their pants over such a weight saving. The minimum seat height is also slightly lower with a revised seat post subframe. Obviously the V2s also have the sliding / horizontal dropouts too. Nice evolution in such a short period of timeSamd said:
Nice progress Alex, and a very similar set up to mine. Great minds huh ?Allex said:
I thought about the midi but figured the mini would pretty much max out the capabilities of 35mm leaf style motors.
Re: fighter weight, I can't speak for stealth on the matter but I suspect those quoted figures of 34kg were for the older model with single crown forks. Certainly the newer ones running USD-8s and the bigger capacity battery would have to be heavier. I'm guessing closer to 40kg.
Here's a shot of my alpha out an about. Picture is a bit grubby off my phone at dusk in the low light. Proper FLX photo shoot coming shortly with both the alpha and beta in action
Rix
100 TW
NIce bikes Jay and Allex. You guys are inspiring.
Finally got a ride in on Sunday. Had to troubleshoot some problems first though which took me a while to track down.
First problem was to do with my plugs into my BMS from the battery. one group from the battery i made too short and it turns out would pop out of the BMS during the fiddly battery loading step. So i ended up lengthening some wires to give me a bit more wiggle room when loading the battery in the bike, and i hot glued the connectors a wee bit on the BMS casing, and was much more careful loading in the battery.
The other problem i fixed was a halls error during calibration. After being so carful with all my wiring it turns out i had a broken wire in a connection piece i made, right on a bullet connector, so you couldnt even see the problem. Lucky I could detect it with my multi meter! It took me ages to find this problem so in the mean time I made my halls plug connection heaps better and used shrink wrap over each one under the plug screw on casing. so very low chance of shorts in there now.
One more problem was flipping white to blue on the throttle connection piece.
Anyway it finally did the calibration ok, pedals going backwards? but goes foward on throttle afterewards...anyway long story short, had a blast on a local test ride around the local hood. I didn't go nuts as i have to tap the axle clamp bolts yet, and fix my brakes as my donor rear shimano saint brake is leaking and the front is a little spongy, so my stopping distance is not good right now!
Heres a pic
I am pretty happy my battery build appears ok - see below. was dreading having to tear it down to troubleshoot.
No special colors yet, but might do something cool later on. But first I need to get through some higher priorities. #1 brakes!
I have a bit more learning to do with working out how to get regen braking going, I have a button on my throttle i can use for it, but looks like i may have to configure something for it to work, or tweak my wiring a bit.
Looking at the power profiles section, for boost profile I upped my battery amps to about 80, but left phase current in amps at its default which was around 70. I have had a search around, but can anyone tell me or point me in the right direction of some info about the relationship between battery amps and phase amps.
I have read phase amps is usually 1.5 to 4x the battery amps value - but dont know the why / relationship.
The next question would be whats the "sensible" max settings for my setup. I have a 18s10P samsung 30q 18650 battery pack. Its capable (rated) of 150 amps continuous. and has about 66V nominal. I have the maxe-e controller so no limits there. I have the mxus 3000w v2, 4t and have read the max temp i should get the motor is 120 degrees. I think the weakest link in my setup will be the stock phase wires. Interested to know what max settings i should use, 1 for fun, and 2, so i don't blow anything up on my 2nd ride!
Thanks. - now off to read more about the advanced settings.
Cheers.
First problem was to do with my plugs into my BMS from the battery. one group from the battery i made too short and it turns out would pop out of the BMS during the fiddly battery loading step. So i ended up lengthening some wires to give me a bit more wiggle room when loading the battery in the bike, and i hot glued the connectors a wee bit on the BMS casing, and was much more careful loading in the battery.
The other problem i fixed was a halls error during calibration. After being so carful with all my wiring it turns out i had a broken wire in a connection piece i made, right on a bullet connector, so you couldnt even see the problem. Lucky I could detect it with my multi meter! It took me ages to find this problem so in the mean time I made my halls plug connection heaps better and used shrink wrap over each one under the plug screw on casing. so very low chance of shorts in there now.
One more problem was flipping white to blue on the throttle connection piece.
Anyway it finally did the calibration ok, pedals going backwards? but goes foward on throttle afterewards...anyway long story short, had a blast on a local test ride around the local hood. I didn't go nuts as i have to tap the axle clamp bolts yet, and fix my brakes as my donor rear shimano saint brake is leaking and the front is a little spongy, so my stopping distance is not good right now!
Heres a pic
I am pretty happy my battery build appears ok - see below. was dreading having to tear it down to troubleshoot.
No special colors yet, but might do something cool later on. But first I need to get through some higher priorities. #1 brakes!
I have a bit more learning to do with working out how to get regen braking going, I have a button on my throttle i can use for it, but looks like i may have to configure something for it to work, or tweak my wiring a bit.
Looking at the power profiles section, for boost profile I upped my battery amps to about 80, but left phase current in amps at its default which was around 70. I have had a search around, but can anyone tell me or point me in the right direction of some info about the relationship between battery amps and phase amps.
I have read phase amps is usually 1.5 to 4x the battery amps value - but dont know the why / relationship.
The next question would be whats the "sensible" max settings for my setup. I have a 18s10P samsung 30q 18650 battery pack. Its capable (rated) of 150 amps continuous. and has about 66V nominal. I have the maxe-e controller so no limits there. I have the mxus 3000w v2, 4t and have read the max temp i should get the motor is 120 degrees. I think the weakest link in my setup will be the stock phase wires. Interested to know what max settings i should use, 1 for fun, and 2, so i don't blow anything up on my 2nd ride!
Thanks. - now off to read more about the advanced settings.
Cheers.
Allex
100 MW
Nice rides gents!
Lash.
You can use 150A( I would probably use around 100-120 with 10p) battery and 260 on phase. But monitor your phase wires after a 60seconds hard run. If hot - turn down a notch, like 200 and so on. You will have a blast if upping phase amps to 400 but again, be very careful with the stock wires.
It is easy to see you maximum phase combo, when you set 150 Battery amps and 70 on phase and doing WOT from stand still you will see a slow rise in amps until they reach 150A
Now if you increase phase current to 260 you should see your amps ramping up much faster, this means better acceleration and also more heat to motor/motor wires.
When you see in instant jump to 150A from stand still at WOT you have reached you phase amp limit - where you get max acceleration.
Lash.
You can use 150A( I would probably use around 100-120 with 10p) battery and 260 on phase. But monitor your phase wires after a 60seconds hard run. If hot - turn down a notch, like 200 and so on. You will have a blast if upping phase amps to 400 but again, be very careful with the stock wires.
It is easy to see you maximum phase combo, when you set 150 Battery amps and 70 on phase and doing WOT from stand still you will see a slow rise in amps until they reach 150A
Now if you increase phase current to 260 you should see your amps ramping up much faster, this means better acceleration and also more heat to motor/motor wires.
When you see in instant jump to 150A from stand still at WOT you have reached you phase amp limit - where you get max acceleration.
SUNDRIVE
10 W
Lash said:
Hey Lash, what about this as an option ? Battery will need to be in two paralled 6p bricks, total height around 140mm. Had to shave 2-3 mm off inside of frame folds to slot the 80mm Adaptto up there.
Thanks heaps for the tips on battery amps and phase amp configuration / testing Allex, that will be very handy for me.
Sundrive, I think my battery is a bit taller - probably more like 150mm or more high after packaging. However that is good info to know that it fits up there ok with a few mods. Certainly for people doing new builds it is good info. I have my BMS and fuse velcrowed up under there and a bunch of wires tucked away up there. Only good thing having the controller on the outside is cooling I suppose. - ahem and more room for batteries!
Cheers, Lash.
Sundrive, I think my battery is a bit taller - probably more like 150mm or more high after packaging. However that is good info to know that it fits up there ok with a few mods. Certainly for people doing new builds it is good info. I have my BMS and fuse velcrowed up under there and a bunch of wires tucked away up there. Only good thing having the controller on the outside is cooling I suppose. - ahem and more room for batteries!
Cheers, Lash.
Hyena
10 GW
Nice work taking the plunge on trimming the frame sundrive. I've looked at mine multiple times and cursed that it misses out on fitting by a few mm but couldnt bring myself to carve it out yet as I still havent decided on the final config. I'm sure the structural integrity of the frame will be fine. Engineering wise that fold no doubt adds strength but I suspect the width of it is more a carry over thing from the stealth models where that's basically a 'shelf' to box in the battery to stop it bouncing around.
Lash, yeah there's pros and cons to have a controller inside or out.
I do like them inside for a neat look and obviously protection from the elements. But when it's at the expense of moar battery space, it's a tough call. In the case of what sundrive has shown you're losing basically nothing as you're half fitting the controller in an area that what would have just been foam packing anyway.
Lash, yeah there's pros and cons to have a controller inside or out.
I do like them inside for a neat look and obviously protection from the elements. But when it's at the expense of moar battery space, it's a tough call. In the case of what sundrive has shown you're losing basically nothing as you're half fitting the controller in an area that what would have just been foam packing anyway.
9lives
10 W
Sun drive, have you made the pack or are you undertaking a dry fit of cells alone? By my math two 18650's stacked totals 130mm by themselves. By the time you add nickel, some copper trace (I used 2mm copper wire), padding between upper and lower cell packs and then external padding 140mm sounds a little light to me. Hey your cells may be shorter than my 25R's but 3 layers of cardboard alone is 9mm and there is no way I would rely on a single layer of cardboard for protection with the controller adjacent to the battery if you are going off-road in pursuit of spills and thrills.SUNDRIVE said:
Hyena
10 GW
9lives are you referring to that dark green coloured waxy cardboard stuff ? I'm not sure I'd trust that between layers for bashing around as you've described. I've had the guys building my batteries (if I can ever get them into the bloody country!) use sheets of fibreglass around 2mm in thickness. 2mm top, centre and bottom + heatshrink over it all comes out pretty much bang on 140mm. Ideally you stick it with thin double sided taped foam but that blows out to closer to 5mm a side. For a normal pack it's a no brainer but given space constraints you could probably make concessions if it's secure enough. All in all I reckon you could JUST squeeze it in. Either that or it'll miss out by 2mm in which case let fly with the 4 letter words! :lol:
I've also used adhesive lino tiles for insulation in pack building before. It's pretty handy - self adhesive, easily cut to shape and pretty thin. Not terribly fire retardant but if one of these cells decides it's going to go thermonuclear then a thin layer of just about anything ain't gonna help much.
I've also used adhesive lino tiles for insulation in pack building before. It's pretty handy - self adhesive, easily cut to shape and pretty thin. Not terribly fire retardant but if one of these cells decides it's going to go thermonuclear then a thin layer of just about anything ain't gonna help much.
Samd
10 MW
Bloody hell this thread has leapt forward! Nice work folks!
I don't know if its been mentioned before - I ended up securing my side cables using P clips thru the bolts on the side covers.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/plastic-p-clips
Cheers
I don't know if its been mentioned before - I ended up securing my side cables using P clips thru the bolts on the side covers.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/plastic-p-clips
Cheers
Allex
100 MW
Schlumpf, is someone using them still, will they fit the standard BB on the Beta? Are they worth getting, where is the best place to buy them?
SUNDRIVE
10 W
9lives, neither built nor dry fitted yet, that is just a cardboard mock-up in the photo.
I cut into the frame folds (gulp) for the Adaptto on the expectation that the finished height of a double decker battery (in two separate packs so they can be fitted through the opening, then parallel connected to give 18s12p) would be somewhere between 140-145mm. There are the ribs in the bottom plate of the frame that Sam queried in a previous post, and I have allowed for around 6mm shock absorbing padding on top of these, then 140mm battery and I still have about 10mm clearance to the adaptto, though the controller will need a few mm of packing above it too, so, yup, it's going to be tight and may end in tears. I'll keep you posted, hey, you can actually say that literally on an internet forum.
I cut into the frame folds (gulp) for the Adaptto on the expectation that the finished height of a double decker battery (in two separate packs so they can be fitted through the opening, then parallel connected to give 18s12p) would be somewhere between 140-145mm. There are the ribs in the bottom plate of the frame that Sam queried in a previous post, and I have allowed for around 6mm shock absorbing padding on top of these, then 140mm battery and I still have about 10mm clearance to the adaptto, though the controller will need a few mm of packing above it too, so, yup, it's going to be tight and may end in tears. I'll keep you posted, hey, you can actually say that literally on an internet forum.
Did a bit more finishing off on the bike on the weekend including putting in my new front wheel that had been having a holiday on my DH bike for a little while. Tap and tweak the rear drop out bolts, close up some holes, seat the battery in a bit better, wire up regen brake, remove leaking rear brake... I managed to use the charger and fed it at 10Amps, all looked ok and seemed to charge as one would expect. No flames or smell = a win!
So finally went for a ride, using regen only for rear brake. I had a great time and really am starting to get the feel of it. Hitting 61kmh on full charge and pulling 7.x Kw on current "max" type settings.
New brake coming this week from CRC, as well as some mudguards.
I got some pics of course, and even a bit of video. Just links here as the pics are probably too large for display in this thread.
http://www.leeashby.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/DSC01168.jpg
http://www.leeashby.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/DSC01155-2.jpg
more pics and words at http://www.leeashby.com/
[youtube]2GxZgRfmvlM[/youtube]
Looking forward to a ride with 9lives and Canberra locals.
So finally went for a ride, using regen only for rear brake. I had a great time and really am starting to get the feel of it. Hitting 61kmh on full charge and pulling 7.x Kw on current "max" type settings.
New brake coming this week from CRC, as well as some mudguards.
I got some pics of course, and even a bit of video. Just links here as the pics are probably too large for display in this thread.
http://www.leeashby.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/DSC01168.jpg
http://www.leeashby.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/DSC01155-2.jpg
more pics and words at http://www.leeashby.com/
[youtube]2GxZgRfmvlM[/youtube]
Looking forward to a ride with 9lives and Canberra locals.
robohead
100 W
Nice build so far Lee. Looks great! Love the HIGH VOLTAGE pic on the site.Lash said:
Rix
100 TW
robohead said:
Yah Lee, what Robohead said.
Samd
10 MW
I notice Lash has gone 5 parallel per layer and Allex also mentions 10p.
From memory my Alpha was ~116mm wide inside, so enough for 6p per layer of 18650's - am I right?
From memory my Alpha was ~116mm wide inside, so enough for 6p per layer of 18650's - am I right?
Samd
10 MW
Thanks fella!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Samd
10 MW
Sundrive I'm thinking you'd be better with two seperate 18s 6p bricks, each with minimal electrical insulation and shrinkwrap, in order to make loading easier and once loaded, add physical insulation outside the shrinkwrap with foam/rubber etc.
Looking at it from the headstem end as below, those ribs in the base could be used to run main wires either side, and same for the adaptto having gaps up the side.
Fill in the gaps between the ribs on the base with foam and a little either side to spread the load. Not shown.
Not sure how warm those controllers get - should be a decent amount of seperation. Can it be monitored via adaptto?
Perhaps a way somehow to create a heat path from controller to frame?
Looking at it from the headstem end as below, those ribs in the base could be used to run main wires either side, and same for the adaptto having gaps up the side.
Fill in the gaps between the ribs on the base with foam and a little either side to spread the load. Not shown.
Not sure how warm those controllers get - should be a decent amount of seperation. Can it be monitored via adaptto?
Perhaps a way somehow to create a heat path from controller to frame?
SUNDRIVE
10 W
Samd said:
Yes Sam, thanks, that all looks good, after padding out the bottom ribs I have at least 155mm to the underside of the Adaptto, so batteries and mechanical foam protection should fit, with a little gentle persuasion.
I will try to find some material to give thermal bridging between adaptto and frame above it, though it is complicated by bolt ends for seat sub-frame and shock mount bracket.
The externally mounted adaptto Mini-E on our Fighter never gets warm, even when the motor gets too hot to touch (I know that's bad, only done it a couple of times, got to be more careful now we have a bigger tap open with the Mini-E). So these controllers run quite cool below rated capacity.
The Adaptto has a motor Temp display up front on the interface, and also, I believe, controller Mosfet Temp buried down a bit further in the Health Monitor display screen.
It would be a really good and useful upgrade if Adaptto were to include a battery temperature sense wire to the controller, for battery management in both charging and discharging. Our Electric Vehicle (Nissan Leaf) has this battery Temp info up front on the dashboard display, so important that the ordinary consumer needs to see it. And all our solar controllers for battery charging systems (Mainly Pb H2SO4) include temperature compensation. I would have thought this would be a priority for an Ebike motor controller/battery charger too, both for safety and battery management.
JB
Allex
100 MW
Rix
100 TW
WOW Allex, 329km/H Sweet! You have officially joined the 200MPH club, thats one fast Beta :lol: That calibration is way off. But 73km/h on 63 volts is really impressive, was that with any OVS input?