Suggestions for my first Ebike Tuning

[SwiftBoy]

Hi All!

It is an honour to be part of this forum!

I'm Francesco from Italy and i'm quite new in the world of electric bike.

I have just bought a scooter style ebike (PICTURE ATTACHED) 18" wheel, 48v, 500watt, 12ah Lead-acid battery, PAS sensor to accelerate, max actual speed 37kmh, slow power for hills, max range 20-25 km

I would like to:

have more power: be able to climb up to 25% /30% hills even with a passenger
have more speed: up to 55/60 kmh
have more range: up to 50 KM

be able to install a thumb throttle
install a button to regenerate braking
be able to adjust and alter controller settings on my computer
be able to install a Cycle Analyst


and, MOST IMPORTANT
be able to install an hidden but still accessible or "secret" three way speed switch in which
SPEED 1: would be the "legal" setting, so the ebike must accelerate only with PAS (no manual throttle) speed limited to 25 kmh - so I can set it in case of police control
SPEED 2: would be the "cruise" setting with both PAS and thumb throttle enabled - no speed limit
SPEED 3: would be the "sport" setting with just thumb throttle enabled - no speed limit - full power to be able to climb high hills

What kind of configuration do you suggest?

My budget would be max 600 euros (including a new battery)

Do you think your 9 FET 72V Infineon Brushless Controller (LYEN's Edition) would be suitable for my needs?

Can I initially install the controller with my original configuration of motor (500w) and battery (48v Lead acid 12ah) and have some kind of results or do you think it is better to buy a new controller and then (when i will have all the money) install it together with a new battery and new motor (in the future..)?

Looking forward for your reply!

THANKS A LOT!

 

[SwiftBoy]

Pictures..

 

[MadRhino]

I would like to:

have more power: be able to climb up to 25% /30% hills even with a passenger
have more speed: up to 55/60 kmh
have more range: up to 50 KM

Climbing 30% hills with a load on the bitch pad requires serious hp
Your shopping list beats your budget by far

You need a 25 Lbs motor, 18 fet controller, a dozen bricks of RC lipo and means to charge them.
That is at least twice your budget, and once you'll have that much power It will cost you some more to upgrade brakes and tires and shocks...

 

[arkmundi]

Yea, throw your budget away and get that scooter scoot'n. Put on a MXUS 3000 watt motor and up the battery to 60 volts and a new controller at 50 amps. Up the battery to 20-30 ah.

 

[amberwolf]

Ditto to MadRhino's post.

If you go to http://ebikes.ca/simulator you can play with different batteries, motors, and controllers, and use various throttle settings and such to simulate use on hills, traffic stops/starts, etc., to get an idea of what size stuff you'll need.

If you are not sure of what wattage you need for your hills, loads, accelerations, etc, you can use other simulators found on the ES Wiki to determine that.

 

[dogman dan]

30% grade with two would be hard even for this gasoline scoot. However, much of your reality check might be that 30% grade paved roads are very rare, limited usually to peoples crazy steep driveways.

10-12% not so rare, in a mountain road or just a short hill. In any case, your existing scoot is not going to do what you want, unless you change to a much larger motor, and then a much larger much more expensive battery to run it.

Likely you can up your performance some on a small budget, but 48v and 30 amps controller is the max you should try to run through that motor. If you are at 48v now, you could try the "shunt modification" to increase the amps of your controller by about 5 amps.

Your entire budget might be taken by getting a decent 48v lithium battery. So start with that. You cannot carry 72v 12 ah of lead. It will weigh 60 pounds! And, 72v will smoke that motor, or at least risk that. Stick to 48v, and about 30 amps.

Much more, you are better off to start over, with a 2000 euro budget. Or get that gasoline scoot.

 

[SwiftBoy]

THANKS ALL GUYS for your kind response..

I understood that I can not have what all that I want with my existing budget (600 euros) so maybe it is better to do the tuning in 3 different phases...

what do you think of this configuration?

START: (1ST PHASE OF TUNING)

CONTROLLER: 12 FET 4110 Mark II Extreme Modder LYEN Edition Controller $139
(Set up 48v + Without increasing the voltage, there is a special programmable function in the controller parameter which allows the motor to spin up to 20% higher than the full speed (also called 120% speed setting in the controller program) - maybe i can reach out 40 kmh

Cycle Analyst connector, external USB-TTL connector for USB-TTL programming adapter, regenerative braking enable/disable jumper $10
USB-TTL programming adapter $15
Three speed switch $15
LEFT Side (custom made) Thumb Throttle $25
Battery (original 48v 12amp); Motor (original 500w)

2ND PHASE OF TUNING:

+
60v or 72v LiPo or Lifepo4 Battery 25 or 30 amp :wink:

DO YOU GUYS KNOW ANY GOOD WEBSITE in which I can buy a reliable custom battery at good price? or do you suggest buying single cells (a123 or Hobby King) and then find some technician here in my city to make him assemble the pack in the right way?

same original motor

3RD PHASE OF TUNING

+
NEW 3000W HUB MOTOR 18inches

CAN YU GUYS SUGGEST ME ANY GOOD 3000W HUB MOTOR 18 INCHES "SCOOTER STYLE" WHEEL?
I've found the following on alibaba but i dont know if i can trust it...
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ebike-MOTOR-HUB-Front-rear-motor_60161631395.html

 

[arkmundi]

or Lifepo4 Battery 25 or 30 amp .... suggest buying single cells (a123

OSNPower for single cell A123 AMP20 and their kit - not hard to DIY

 

[dogman dan]

Uh, get some lithium first. None of that will do you any good with yer lead.

Lyens controller, or any other than can use a DP CA a good choice. Then you can set your voltage and amps to go with your existing battery, and up the ante as you get better battery.

Unfortunately out of stock right now, but this controller would be a good choice. Huge range of voltage, and you can run anything from 15 amps for your lead, to 40 amps with lipo later.

http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/controllers/c7240-nc.html

 

[SwiftBoy]

Thanks Arkmundi !

Thanks dogman dan!


ANY SUGGESTIONS REGARDING A GOOD 3000W HUB MOTOR 18 INCHES "SCOOTER STYLE" WHEEL?

I've found the following on alibaba but i dont know if i can trust it...
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/e ... 31395.html

 

[Drunkskunk]

Yep, Battery first. Lipo is extremely dangerous, and by the time you buy all the charging and monitoring equipment needed to make it a practical solution, it isn't as cheap as other types of Lithium cells. NMC cells are nearly as powerful but safe. EM3ev.com Sells those, and would be a great source. LiFePO4 cells are also a possibility, and widely available.

just 40kph on those scooters is pushing them hard. they aren't built like a true moped scooter, more like a child's toy underneath. the metal tubing is paper thin and usually only assembled strong enough to hold 1 Asian sized person reliably at 20kph. The wheels, brakes, suspension, construction, and over all design aren't suitable for high speeds.

If you want an electric scooter that can go 60kph, save up for your budget, then convert a Vespa.

30% grades are rare, and many cars can't handle them. It takes my monster bike around 9000 watts just to get me up a 30% grade hill. I had to travel several hundred miles to find a hill that steep. You will need a massive amount of power from a hub motor to get up a hill that steep with 2 people. More than the MXUS 3000 can handle. You should consider a chain drive with reduction gears if this is your goal.

The controller type you picked would be a good choice. a 9 or12 FET would be good for the motor you have and that scooter. I have mine programmed with the 1st position as "off", the second as the legal limit, and the 3rd set for full power. The off position is nice when I want to park for just a moment, without unplugging the battery.
You will need a bigger controller for a motor that runs at 60kph and goes up 30% grades.