Super Soco TS Upgrade

[nardcox]

Yeah I contacted the seller the other day. They said a small spark was normal, but yeah... I left if in for a few minutes, nothing got hot or started to smell funny. I'm also thinking the BMS might be defect / DOA.

What I've send the seller:
I connected everything but I can't get it to work... I measure 71.5V across the battery pack, BMS in is also 71.5V, BMS out is only 23.5V. Connecting the balancing wires doesn't made a difference. There is no light and th VBMS app can't find it either. I measured the balancing wires individually and they are all connected correctly and give the proper voltages...Help please.

 

[nardcox]

So finally a positive update!!

I've connected the balancing wires as well as a small (power)button (tip from the seller). Once that was connected it started beeping. Forgot I even had the button. After some fiddling around I managed to get it connected to my phone via the bluetooth app! Also connected the display and the temp sensors and everything worked, however the display had some 'broken lines' in it so contacted the seller for that.

Hooked it up yesterday and was getting 71.5V output on the BMS. Connected it to the rest of the bike but it didn't work. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=95969&p=1579044#p1579044 I need to connect the eLock brake to the + of the battery in order for the Votol to do anything. Hopefully I have some time tonight to give it a try.

 

[nardcox]

Connected the elock to the battery + but still nothing there...

I'm not sure I've connected the accelerator correctly:

Votol:
1) Purple color cable, High Brake, connect to DC 12V engage.
2) White color cable for Multi-Function, speed, etc.
7) Black color cable, Throttle Negative.
6) Green color cable, Throttle Signal.
8 ) Pink color cable, +5V power, Throttle Positive 5V.

Super Soco Accelerator:
red: throttle 5V
black: ground wire
green: throttle signal

What's I've connected:
red > pink
black > black
green > green

This should be ok or?

EDIT: I've connected another throttle set that was delivered with the motor.

Throttle, plug cable information.
1) Throttle Black Cable (negative).
2) Throttle Green Cable (signal).
3) Throttle Red Cable (power +5V, positive).
4) Throttle Yellow Cable connects to Battery + positive.
5) Thtottle Blue Cable connects to controller E-Lock Cable.

And it works...kinda of a little bit. It gives a small nudge of power and then nothing, small as in the wheel moves about 1cm and that's it... I can remember that with the Sabvoton controllers it needed to 'calibrate' something and after that it worked. Will start searching the Votol topic again...

EDIT: Just connected the controller to my laptop, turned on the BMS, pplugged in the USB, fired up the program and voila. It works...

 

[nardcox]

Update.
Connected everything up with the old throttle control and it worked with the new QS motor.
Since I can't mount this motor I need it to work with my Super Soco TS motor, but no such luck yet.
Need to find the right settings for the Votol / Super Soco combo.
The most important are apparently the "pole pairs" and the "hall angle".
Does anyone have any idea?

 

[fechter]

Most motors use a 120 degree hall spacing. If you can measure the hall signal voltage on any of the sensors while turning the motor, you can count how many times it toggles in one revolution. This will be twice the number of pole pairs. Or you can count the number of times it goes from low to high and get the number of pole pairs directly.

 

[nardcox]

So got a bit further...

Got the bike to run and man it's a blast...up till 49kmph that is because then it hits regen or something and it brakes pretty aggressively...

I've put in 27 pole pairs (based on this video) and -60c hall angle and that is very smooth.

Decided I want to replace the few cells that had the wrapper damaged so working on that. Also received the nickel so should be good to go. IPA is on it's way to undo the plexiglas.

Now working on getting the BMS display working. (This one)
1. Where do I connect the "hall speed measurent' cable, it states on the back of the display but can't see anything that indicates the position, is there an 'universal' codename for this?
2. How do you connect this screen? So far I just had it on the + & - of the battery or should I install it at the BMS to prevent it for sucking electricity?
3. The housing has 2 small buttons in the bag as well. I assume I can simply connect them to there the buttons are on the PCB (the 2 pins sticking out nearest to the actual button)?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/iPWoKQF6p1QgubMo6

 

[nardcox]

Got the display connected, unfortunately it has some defect lines which makes reading the information more difficult.

I have a question about the right switch on my Super Soco. It has the following functions:

• Park mode
• 3 speed switch
• toggle switch (which doesn't have any function, yet...)

It has the following cables:
cable tree : cable connector : manual

1. blue & white : white : bias signal
2. blue & green : green : bias signal
3. black & red : black : 12v : negative
4. blue & red : yellow : high speed
5. black & blue : blue : low speed
6. black : grey : functionally
7. brown : red : position light signal

The Votol controller has the following (A):

1. brown&white : parking
2. yellow&white : boost mode
3. green&white : speed 1
4. black&white: speed 3
5. black : negative

It also has a separate connector (B) :

1. grey&white : reverse
2. grey&black : low brake

How can I measure what goes where?
What I've done so far (without succes):
Super Soco <> Votol

• 3 <> (A)4
• 7 <> (A)1
• 5 <> (A)3
• A <> (A)3 & (A)2

I connect everything, power on, connect to laptop to see live display and than start hitting the switches but don't see any changes in the votol software PDRNS (I guess I should be seeing changes)?

 

[bob_r]

Hi, i've become interested in the Super Soco Bikes, having been using my converted MTB since 2013, and having built a Stealth type bike recently.
After some online searching it appears that the Motor in both the TS and the TC is most likely the same unit. if it is as suggested elsewhere in this thread,the QS 276 motor, in terms of upgrade the motor is strong, possibly having the capacity of up to 8,000W peak.
The TS claims 1,200W, but the battery is 60V 26Ah, 60 x 26 = 1,560, so in the terms as understood by me makes the Bike 1500W+, but limited possibly by the Controller.
The TC claims 1,500W, but the battery is 60V 29Ah, 60 x 29 = 1,740, so in the terms as understood by me makes the Bike 1700W+, but limited possibly by the Controller.
These figures are using battery figures to nearest whole number obviously as cell capacity is rated at 3.6V
So, what would be the result of a simple upgrade by just fitting the TC Controller ( available for around £120 on AliExpress) to the TS? or if feeling brave just upgrading the Shunts in the existing Controller (don't try this on a Bike that's in Warranty). But check out Utube for info.
Alternativelly, fit a bigger battery, 72V, both the motor and Controller would almost certainly capable of accepting this, so the TS becomes 72V x Ah, lets say 30Ah = 2,160W..
I'm no expert, so prepared, for the sake of knowledge, to be shot down...

 

[nardcox]

It's the QS273 motor, not QS276.
I also believe the motors will be identical, would make sense since producing 1 motor is easier and probably cheaper than producing 2 (this is often done in the automotive industry as well).

TS
Controller: 40A (60V *40A = 2.400W peak = 1.200w continuous)
Battery: 60V * 26Ah = 1.560W continuous

TC
50A (60V * 45A = 3.000W peak = 1.500W continuous)
Battery: 60V * 29Ah = 1.740W continuous

Updating TS controller with TC sounds like a waste of money to me since the speed difference isn't that big.

You can't 'simply' fit a 72V battery in a 60V system. You would need a new controller and a new converter. Then you have a big battery with a strong controller and the motor will be the limiting factor so you also upgrade that. In the end it's what I did: new batt, new controller, new motor.

 

[bob_r]

Good info Nardox, thanks.

I agree that the speed difference is marginal, but you do seem to be confirming that changing the Controller would work OK, albeit for the price not really worthwhile.
Also thanks for confirming the Motor type. It is said by Super Soco to be a Bosch Motor, but I guess the QS link is due to the Bosch joint Venture with Taizhou Quanshun, who are a Sister Company to QSMotor.

 

[nardcox]

The stock motor and the QS273 are not the same. The QS one weighs way way more and the settings for the QS didn't work in the stock motor.

 

[ElectroChris]

TS
Controller: 40A (60V *40A = 2.400W peak = 1.200w continuous)
Battery: 60V * 26A = 1.560W continuous

TC
50A (60V * 45A = 3.000W peak = 1.500W continuous)
Battery: 60V * 29A = 1.740W continuous

Hi,

you seem to be confusing some terms here.

You are referring to the battery as 60V*26A but the 26A should actually be 26Ah which is the capacity rating of the battery and not the discharge rate.

60V * 26Ah = 1560 WattHours

So the theory is that if the battery is providing a constant 26amps it should last for 1 hour from full to empty, at 13amps it should last 2 hours, etc. In the real world this wont be the case as you dont want to run the battery completely flat if you want it to have a longer life.

Also from information I've found so far (May not be accurate) the TS controller is 35A max and TC controller is 40A max and people have found a 45A cut off on the battery BMS. Super Soco do now state 50A max discharge on the TC so newer models may have now been updated.

 

[nardcox]

They are only (bad) typos, I've corrected them. If one doesn't know the difference between A and Ah one shouldn't be building battery packs.

Regarding the controller ratings. I've read many different stories, these numbers however, are the only ones that make the numbers work provided by Super Soco.

Either way, they are really limited and don't do the bike any justice...

 

[ElectroChris]

Its not really Typos as the entire premise of the calculation is incorrect, youre using the capacity rating for the battery to calculate continous Watt output which is an incorrect calculation. Actually your initial calculation was technically correct i.e. V x A = W, but you were quoting the 26 Ah rating of the battery and attempting to use it to calculate the power if can provide which is incorrect.

Ah is a measure of capacity similar to litres of a fuel tank and A is current which could be compared to the litres per hour flow rate of a fuel pump, even thought they both have Amps or Litres in there one is a capcity rating and the other is a flow rating and the two are not related.

You could have a 60v 26Ah battery that is only capable of providing 1A of current, and then you could also have a 60v 26Ah battery that can provide 50A of current.

I agree with you that if you dont know the difference between A and Ah you shouldnt be building batteries, but also having incorrect information on a forum is never going to help people who are trying to learn these things to understand as it seems the post above yours is also using the incorrect calculations. Along the lines of this I recently saw someone on a youtube video attempting to connect to a controller that was on their bike using information that was on a forum which was incorrect (attempting to connect using canbus when it was TTL serial) and becuase they couldnt conect due to the incorrect information they ended up buying a different controller where if they had the correct information they could have used the controller they already had.

 

[nardcox]

Goodluck with correcting all the wrong info on the internet, don't wear yourself out.

As I said, I mistyped (was on my way and typing on my cellphone), i'm terribly sorry for that. I hope I didn't ruine anyone's live.

 

[Dmi]

Ordered Kelly controller for 70-160A as a first step of my Super SOCO TC upgrade also found out on Ali upgrade BMS with higher A value for the original battery, full compatibility promised. I don't know if I can post links to any product but I'd try:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mN0Q1xt
Also from chinese sources original BMS is able to provide only 40A.

 

[Wanda]

Looks nice. But is it safe to do that?

 

[Wanda]

Ordered Kelly controller for 70-160A as a first step of my Super SOCO TC upgrade also found out on Ali upgrade BMS with higher A value for the original battery, full compatibility promised. I don't know if I can post links to any product but I'd try:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mN0Q1xt
Also from chinese sources original BMS is able to provide only 40A.

Can't pass high current.

 

[nardcox]

If you are going to mod it I would mod it properly.

I have the bike driving btw, however haven't driven it much. The performance is amazing, so much quicker than stock, it's a blast everytime I get on the bike.

 

[SlowCo]

Can't pass high current.

150A vs 40A stock.

 

[Wanda]

Ordered Kelly controller for 70-160A as a first step of my Super SOCO TC upgrade also found out on Ali upgrade BMS with higher A value for the original battery, full compatibility promised. I don't know if I can post links to any product but I'd try:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mN0Q1xt
Also from chinese sources original BMS is able to provide only 40A.

Can't pass high current.

Maybe only 20A

 

[Daniel2]

Does anybody know of any alternarive display which works with TSX and fardriver controller.

 

[nardcox]

Does anybody know of any alternarive display which works with TSX and fardriver controller.

No idea, I believe it's a pretty closed system so don't believe there are easy swap alternatives (however, haven't been tracking development for the past 3 to 4 years so things might have changed).