Tesla Powerwall $350 / kwh Retail

flathill said:
A123 makes awesome jelly roll in can cells. They only have issues with their pouch cells which use their "custom" high speed low cost equipment. Thanks for proving my point. Can cells are commodities made by hundreds of producers worldwide. This because you can buy somewhat standardized off the shelf equipment to make them.
They also make (made) pretty good pouches too,.". But that dis not prevent a simple quality defect bringing the whole company to its knees !
Anybody can buy a cook pan, but it takes someone special to use that pan and produce a really good meal !
You cannot just buy success in manufacturing .
 
A bit of digging around, managed to get some more clarification on the operational set up.
It appears you would have to have a separate inverter/charger, (bidirectional inverter) added to your existing solar system, unless you have a compatible solar edge or fronius hybrid inverter fitted (both solar and inverter/charger) which can be directly connected to the tesla battery.

http://m.pv-magazine.com/news/details/beitrag/tesla-powerwall-battery-coming-to-germany-in-q4_100019465/#axzz3b4fuEd5I
Tesla will have channels that sell the Powerwall battery as a stand-alone product. Powerwall will initially be compatible only with inverters from Fronius and SolarEdge. These support a direct DC connection, so that only one inverter is needed for the solar system and battery. Over time there will be more compatible inverters, however. Homeowners who want to keep existing inverters from other manufacturers will be able to integrate the Powerwall battery through the installation of an additional inverter.
 
news reports state the Grattan Institute have put the realistic cost of the PowerWall at $7000 including the inverter, and installation.
Even with Australia's ridiculous feed in tariff at less than 25% of the grid tariff ( a 20c /kWhr difference !) , it is still hard to justify financially .

Also, interesting to note there are other existing players in exactly this same game..
http://inhouseenergy.com.au/epages/shop.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/ati/Products/BP11
11kWhr lithium storage pack for solar installations.
They claim to use the same (??) battery tech as Tesla...whatever that may mean .
 
For all the "haters" of lead acid batteries (myself included) here is a 3650 cycles @ 80% DOD proven application:
http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0009/000916/091670eo.pdf
Page 78 of the PDF
 
Elon Musk at yesterday's 2015 shareholders meeting-

10 kWh PowerWall upgraded from 2 kW continuous, 3.3 kW peak to 5 kW continuous and 7 kW peak.

No change in price.

Expect installed price of $4000.

Backup power version rated for 1200 cycles, daily cycler version rated for 5000 cycles, ~15 years.
 
silentflight said:
Elon Musk at yesterday's 2015 shareholders meeting-

10 kWh PowerWall upgraded from 2 kW continuous, 3.3 kW peak to 5 kW continuous and 7 kW peak.

No change in price.

Expect installed price of $4000.

Backup power version rated for 1200 cycles, daily cycler version rated for 5000 cycles, ~15 years.

Thats a lot better, all they need now, is to go for a one unit fits all, as standard 10kWh with daily cycling.
With those new continuous and peak ratings, they could be used as either hybrid for UPS backup, load leveling, tarrif control or even totally off grid, for an efficient small home.
 
silentflight said:
Elon Musk at yesterday's 2015 shareholders meeting-

10 kWh PowerWall upgraded from 2 kW continuous, 3.3 kW peak to 5 kW continuous and 7 kW peak.

No change in price.

Expect installed price of $4000.

Backup power version rated for 1200 cycles, daily cycler version rated for 5000 cycles, ~15 years.

Hum...

"For a 10 kilowatt-hour system, customers can prepay $5,000 for a nine-year lease, which includes installation, a maintenance agreement, the electrical inverter and control systems. Customers can also buy the same system outright for $7,140"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-01/solarcity-taking-orders-for-tesla-batteries-starting-at-5-000
http://electrek.co/2015/05/02/total-cost-of-an-installed-tesla-powerwall-battery-pack-is-7140-solarcity-says/
 
h0tr0d said:
Hum...

"For a 10 kilowatt-hour system, customers can prepay $5,000 for a nine-year lease, which includes installation, a maintenance agreement, the electrical inverter and control systems. Customers can also buy the same system outright for $7,140"
He is referring to the 7 kWh system without the inverter going forward. Says they intend to favor installers who charge reasonable prices.
 
silentflight said:
h0tr0d said:
Hum...

"For a 10 kilowatt-hour system, customers can prepay $5,000 for a nine-year lease, which includes installation, a maintenance agreement, the electrical inverter and control systems. Customers can also buy the same system outright for $7,140"
He is referring to the 7 kWh system without the inverter going forward. Says they intend to favor installers who charge reasonable prices.

The difference between the 7 kWh and the 10 is $500, so $6640.

I imagine that SolarCity, which Musk is Chairman, will "charge reasonable prices"...
 
Hillhater said:
One is a salesman/manufacturer trying to make it sound attractive...
....the other is an independent analysist reflecting real world data.
h0tr0d said:
The difference between the 7 kWh and the 10 is $500, so $6640.
What are you talking about? Revisit your math.

Hillhater said:
One is a salesman/manufacturer trying to make it sound attractive...
....the other is an independent analysist reflecting real world data.
You realize they are talking about completely different things, right? Such a shame that Musk is just a shill without a track record. :lol:
 
silentflight said:
What are you talking about? Revisit your math.

If the difference between the 2 batteries is $500 and the "installation, a maintenance agreement, the electrical inverter and control systems" are all the same, why is my math wrong?

Who cares about the battery price, people need the complete solution.
And Tesla only sells the batteries to installers, so...
 
Ohbse said:
The powerwall doesn't include the inverter - that's a pretty decent piece of the difference in price I would suspect.
Yes might be looking at least $US1500 to over US2000 for a matching hybrid inverter.
 
Fortnightly Magazine - July 2015: Wind of Change Challenging Utilities by Llewellyn King
.... To me, the appearance of investor and entrepreneur Elon Musk at the Edison Electric Institute's annual convention in New Orleans was a "wind of change" moment for the august electric utility. It was a signal that the industry was coming to terms, or trying to come to terms, with new forces that are challenging it as a business proposition in a way that it hasn't been challenged in a history of more than 100 years....

...At EEI's annual convention in June in New Orleans, Musk didn't tell his audience what he thought would happen to the utilities as their best customers opted to leave the grid, or to rely on it only in emergencies, while insisting that they should be allowed to sell their own excess generation back to the grid. Musk also didn't venture an opinion on the future of the grid - and his interlocutor, Ted Craver, chairman and CEO of Rosemead, Calif.-based Edison International, didn't press him.

Instead Musk talked glowingly about the electrification of transportation, implying - but not saying outright - that the electric pie would grow with new technologies like his Tesla Motors' electric car.

...The great dark cloud hanging over the industry is that of social justice. As the move to renewables becomes a flood, enthusiastically endorsed by such disparate groups as the Tea Party and environmentalists, the Christian right and morally superior homeowners, and companies like SolarCity and First Solar, the poor may have difficulty keeping their heads above water.

The grid, the lifeline of U.S. social cohesion, remains at threat. Utilities are jumping into the solar business, but they have yet to reveal how selling or leasing rooftop units - as the Southern Company is about to do in Georgia - is going to save the grid, or how the poor and city dwellers are going to be saved from having to pay more and more for the grid while suburban fat cats enjoy their sense that they're saving the planet......
One does have to wonder what the future of the grid will be in the face of such forces-of-nature as Elon Musk, et.al. Is it possible the Grid may disappear from certain areas where Tesla and SolarCity get a foothold? Me thinks that a real possibility.
 
arkmundi said:
Is it possible the Grid may disappear from certain areas where Tesla and SolarCity get a foothold? Me thinks that a real possibility.
I definetly think it will force more competitive pricing onto networks & gentailers, when network pricing is based on Maximum Demand and Time of Use Tariffs.
Regarding grid defection, throughout suburbs of existing cities and towns, I think battery storage won't remove for the grid, if anything i think these networks would need bolstering for the coming onslaught of electric vehicle home charging, where some homes might need up around 100kWh+, overnight, to charge a couple of vehicles at home, at the same time.
Battery storage could well affect grid remote areas where power is provided by long transmission lines and/or supplied by fossil fuel generation, these places may well see grid defection, if renewables are more cost effective.
 
MitchJi said:
Hi,
Peak grid :mrgreen:
Good to see youve peaked :wink:
Here in Australia our actual annual grid consumption has dropped, since it peaked in 2008, now down by about 10% and we weren't affected by the GFC, it's been due to a combination of increases in electricity prices, increase in use of energy management, energy efficient appliances and solar self consumption.

Though our use of coal and emissions have gone right up, due to a retrograde government, that got in by a fear campaign, they are basically just managers for coal mining and are making us an embarrassment on the world stage.
They want Australia to dig a massive new mine here, that alone will export more emissions than a large nation.
 
megacycle said:
........ due to a retrograde government, that got in by a fear campaign, .....
....possibly, but certainly less scary than retaining their predecessors who displayed complete financial ineptitude and inability to organise even a piss up in a brewery,..let alone any sustainable government policy.
.. ergo..they were democratically voted out by the Australian public !
 
Hillhater said:
megacycle said:
........ due to a retrograde government, that got in by a fear campaign, .....
....possibly, but certainly less scary than retaining their predecessors who displayed complete financial ineptitude and inability to organise even a piss up in a brewery,..let alone any sustainable government policy.
.. ergo..they were democratically voted out by the Australian public !
So you agree it was a scare campaign, then you say they where democratically elected, do you even realise what you said?? The only reason they got to power was Murdoch along with the IPA- COALition, Mining Mafia.
Still believe in the unmanageable deficit, that the now, treasurer went to NZ and told them there it wasn't a problem ???
If we means tested everyone, at the time of these sociopaths coming to power, I could have gone down to the bank, drawn my couple of grand, along with all the others paying their means tested share and paid it down, that'd how bad it was one of the lowest out of all the OECD nations, because KRudd&Co had the forsight to stimulate the economy and spend, so we weren't affected by the GFC, so keep drinking your LNP Koolaid.
How you can still believe Abbot &Co is beyond sense, every word is BS, for a start they're Conservatives, not Liberals.

I'll never forget when KRudd wanted to get more money out of the miners massive bank balances, you know, those people like Rinehart and others that pay next to nothing here to our government in the way of taxes, royalties and claim subsidies for billions for fuel, then the massive smear campaign to discredit him, on TV and in the press.

You're probably still in denial, like many Aussies, that you fell for the Murdoch campaign treachery.
 
Scare campaign ??
The only thing that scared me was the total irresponsible financial management of the previous bunch.
I don't have political alliances, I judge governments on actual performance.
Labour screwed up ..big time, wasting too much time infighting and changing policy's . So move them out and let the next bunch have a go.
If they make a mess of it, I will vote them out also.
 
Hillhater said:
Scare campaign ??
The only thing that scared me was the total irresponsible financial management of the previous bunch.
I don't have political alliances, I judge governments on actual performance.
So how did our performance rate to the rest of the OECD, coming through the GFC?
Here you go-
banner-750x380-debt-oecd1-470x260.png

Hillhater said:
Labour screwed up ..big time, wasting too much time infighting and changing policy's . So move them out and let the next bunch have a go.
[/quote]
No you got sucked in by the Murdoch Menace, like many others.
and Scare Campaign, yes, you didn't denounce it just previously.
I voted Howard too, but I know a bunch of psycho's when I see them, that's the LNP and look how they are setting about causing division, destroying social and environmental policies, set up previously.
The in fighting was played upon by the tribal Neocon LNP, run by Murdoch and the IPA, it goes without saying you're going to get in fighting in true Liberals, because they are thinking individuals, not tribal sycophants.
 
So how did labour end up with a small dept after the GFC ??...
.. By going into it with a large surplus !....curtesy of the previous government !
....No you got sucked in by the Murdoch Menace, like many others.
and Scare Campaign, yes, you didn't denounce it just previously.
..you are having problems with comprehension.
I said " possibly"...meaning some may have been scared....I was just sick of Labour corruption.
 
Hillhater said:
So how did labour end up with a small dept after the GFC ??...
.. By going into it with a large surplus !....curtesy of the previous government !
It's not the job of government to run a surplus, it's job is to look after its people, a perfect balance of payments wouldn't be overly positive or overly negative.
Howard had a good run, the mining boom carried him through and he basically sat on it and did next to nothing on improving infrastructure, instead he spent on middle class welfare.

Hillhater said:
..you are having problems with comprehension.
I said " possibly"...meaning some may have been scared....I was just sick of Labour corruption.
possibly, but certainly less scary than retaining their predecessors
How you can infer that to mean that some were scared, i think you've just had an Abbott moment and it's Labor the ALP, not Labour as in work.
And what corruption are you on about? The LNP are just sycophantic managers for big business.
 
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