Test bed for ultimate e-bike build

[LSBW]

So, I’ve been riding road bikes since I was 10, current ride is single speed KHS, decided to build my own e-bike after reading E.S. for a past few weeks.

This is going to be my test bed for ultimate e-bike build, Croborg with Hubzilla.

1. Frame. Found it on the side of the road, asked guy to hold it for me till evening for 2 beers

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BT4W2C/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=

Front and rear disc brakes, full suspension, aluminum, good enough for me.

Needs some TLC, but should be OK after couple evenings.
I’m 6’3”, 175 lbs, in my part of Toronto there’s barely any hills, but tons of potholes on the streets 
That’s why I was looking for full suspension frame.
Bike will be mostly for work commute, 10 km round trip, up to 50km/h speed.
Can charge it at work, if need arise.

2. Battery: http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the-10/36V-20AH-LiFePO4-lithium/Detail
I’m planning on using 2 of these batteries for ultimate build, so for now I’ll get one, and then later second one.
As per Vladimir, 2 batteries 300x150x105 should fit inside Croborg frame.

3. Hubzilla, obviously http://greyborgusa.com/products/motors/hubzilla/

4. Controller: 12 x 4110 MOSFET Extreme Modder Controller LYEN Edition

5. Brakes, Avid 200mm mechanic: http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=723971

6. Rims: http://www.niagaracycle.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=Weinmann+DH-39&x=7&y=8

7. Tires: 26x2.35 http://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/road_tires/crazy_bob_e
I’ve had Schwalbe touring on my SS for 3 years, not a single flat tire. Love them.

8. 20W 12V 1600LM CREE LED Light
http://www.ebay.com/itm/20W-12V-160...pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

9. Spokes, SS 12 gauge, Sapim

Obviously, still missing some stuff, like CA, torque arms, etc., etc.

Exactly same frame, converted to hybrid:

I want to learn following skills: wheel building, make my own wire harness, etc., etc.

Open to any constructive critique

 

[Cyclebutt]

Nice bike. I had to answer the call of the mid-drive (GNG $400) but I like your list of parts. Should be a powerful set-up, although I would go with a 48volt pack. I love my Ping 48v, 15aHr pack. Ping is expensive but reliable. My next pack will be LiPo soft pack (gel) with the foil tabs. Weighs a little over half the Ping and delivers great performance. Drawback is you have to build it yourself or pay BIG bucks for assembly and shipping (hazardous materials). Look in the battery tech section for more about this. Good luck!

One other thing, I ordered an Avid BB7 complete brake set from the HK (on ebay) for about what your going to pay Niagara for just one. That's right, both front and rear calipers and rotors (mine are 160mm though) delivered by epacket (fast) for a total of around $72.

 

[wesnewell]

You don't need Hubzilla for 50kph. Stock 48V 1000W motor kits that only cost $280 will do that. Put 10ah of 20C 15s rc lipo on it and you'll exceed 50kph and never have to charge at work. Should get about 20km at 50kph on level ground.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Well, you have a plan. Thats a start.

A 12 fet controller on a Hubzillia is like trying to tow a car with kite string. Way to small to be usefull. Get a 24 to 36 FET unit for that motor.

That frame won't likely survive a Hubzillia. It would be fine for a 9c, but it's a walmart bike. Get the Greyborg frame or something stronger if you want to run a Hubzillia.

As Cyclebutt points out, there are better deals to be had on the Avids, but it's a good choice on brakes. When money is no object, the BB7 is still my brake of choice.

Rims. Ignore those rims. Any wheel that claims to be a DH and comes with a coaster brake should be dropped off a cliff for general amusement, especialy with an extreamly powerfull motor like the Hubzillia. Try some real rims, like these:
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=22831&category=139

And in general, a better parts source, http://www.universalcycles.com/

14 gauge spokes are better in most cases. or double butted 13/14 gauge. But check with Zombies and JRH to see what spokes they recomend for the Hubzillia. 14 gauge for your front wheel for sure. Thicker is not better.

And finaly, the battery. Ping would be fine for a mildly tuned 9C but not for a Hubzillia. You'll burn it out nearly instantly, or you would have to so restrict it that it would be the equivilant of duct taping a marathon runner's mouth and nose shut, then poking a hole in the tape with a pen, then telling him to go win the race.
You're going to either need some high C rate LiFePO4, or some good LiCo battery to push a Hubzillia.

 

[dogman dan]

A pingbattery on a hubzilla would be like thread instead of kite string.

Keep reading, and don't buy that battery yet. Learn about RC lipo, (lico).

But your goal of about 30 mph can be done with one 48v 15 ah ping, a cheap 20 amp controller and a hubmotor much cheaper than a hubzilla. But only small lipo bricks are going to fit in that frame.

That frame looks nearly identical to the popular wall mart bike branded Genesis. It's got better suspension that most cheap FS bikes, and can be a tolerable ride once you throw away the original fork and put something semi decent on it.

Get a cheap hubmotor kit to start with, a muxus kit from emissions free for example, or whatever is cheap in your locality. Then run it on 12s lipo for now. Later, a controller upgrade and 18s lipo will get you really up to speed, nearly 60kph.

Don't go faster than that on that frame. It's too floppy.

 

[hydro-one]

dont worry with that wheel, you will learn wheelbuilding soon. edit and with ebikes, wiring is god, you will learn

 

[cohberg]

Your bike is basically the more expensive version of the walmart genesis. Based on my experience with riding both,the 203mm rotos are a good choice, but the stock fork was never designed for the larger rotor and is going to flex and possibly break. Mine was shuddering like mad in under 2 weeks of moderate use and it got so bad that I ended up replacing it. Actually irespective of rotor size, the stock fork needs to go: it has virtually no travel and is under engineered. Also the rear "shock" needs to go as well (its just a spring / no damping)

A pingbattery on a hubzilla would be like thread instead of kite string.
Keep reading, and don't buy that battery yet. Learn about RC lipo, (lico).

Seconded on that.

• The ping will never be able to push the amperage you need to get the hubzilla warm.
• RC Lipo usually has high C rates (20C continuous 30C burst) and will be significantly cheaper if you purchase it at the right place/time (try HobbyKing Turnigy Lipo).
• Where would you put a ping 20ah, let alone 2?

Also, because the rear of the bike is aluminum, you'll need some really beefy torque arms + possible modifications to the rear swing arm. The geometry of the bike is fine if you are leaning on the handlebars. But if you are sitting straight up the weight distribution gets really messed up (something like 73:27 front:rear bias [ with a 73lb bike, 127lb rider ]). If you plan on putting in any serious power, you'll need to lengthen the swing arm or change the geometry via tire size / fork.

Controller: 12 x 4110 MOSFET Extreme Modder Controller LYEN Edition

If you are going for "ultimate" try finding a sine drive controller. The cheap trapezoidal controllers from china are fine for most applications but sine drive is just so much better. You'll want something rated for >3kw continuous but with a much higher burst limit for launches and such.

There are several genesis builds floating around on the 'sphere. Go take a look of them and see if you can get some ideas you can add on.

 

[Cyclebutt]

LSBW! Lots of Good advise here. Your thread has attracted some VERY experienced people. I knew the Hubzilla was a monster but wasn't aware of controller and battery requirements involved. Pay close attention to the advise you're getting here.

I went through the same thing when I was gearing up to build the bike (Giant test mule) in my profile photo. In the end I gave up trying to match up parts and ordered a complete kit (included TWO throttles, torque arms and the 48V, 15aHr Ping) from Papamotor, excellent customer service. The only drawback was the time/distance (Hong Kong-Mid USA) involved solving some issues, ALL of which were addressed with complete satisfaction.

Then I ordered a Stand-Alone Cycle Analyst from ebikes.ca, excellent products, balanced set-ups, higher cost. The Vancouver boys are at the top of their game. You might consider one of their Crystalyte kits for starters. You can push these hubs to higher voltages as your budget allows. Plus their kits offer controllers that allow direct plug-in of the Cycle Analyst (you'll want one of these, look into it) which allows you to control amperage, top speed, etc., very useful.

My biggest mistake on the Giant was the brakes. I picked an old school Chromoly frame for strength (good) but didn't consider the stopping power of center-pull caliper brakes (bad) when going 30mph+. I cooked my first set of new brake pads in twenty minutes, HA!

HEY! Can anybody out there suggest a brake shoe/pad for my Giant, that won't cook under pressure?