The EVil 48V 20AH Chopper - Electric Giant Stiletto

Gonzo

10 mW
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
24
Three months ago I've undertaken a project that was supposed to alleviate my addiction to gasoline, put a permanent EV grin on my face and provide months of guilt-free fun riding. I was thinking of converting a cruiser or a low-rider bike for a more comfortable (and safe) ride. One of the candidates that came up for the conversion was 2007 Giant Stiletto. It just had that EVil look that I was searching for :D 3" think tires, rear disk brake, low center of gravity- tons of battery storage space. And totally useless as a stand-alone bicycle :twisted: Going on pedals on that thing is like cutting through molasses. You just can't go uphill on this beast with a 50lb bike weight. But with the motor and the batteries the picture changes. The slow show-off low-rider bike becomes a perfect commuter! So, I started the conversion that was supposed to take 2 weeks top (the time required to get the batteries from Anna or Ping). Anna basically stole my money. I paid $515 for 48V 20AH battery from him (yes, Anna is a man), and never got anything or a refund. Still sending hate-mail to that con-man and finding a way to prosecute him on Chinese territory.

Ping, on the other hand, did everything in his power to deliver the package on time (even paid $50 out of his pocket to deliver via UPS for a 3-day express delivery). Four thumbs up for the man! So, I got the 48V 20AH battery, 36V Golden Motor, the Giant Stiletto bike and started the creative process or cutting and fitting and sawing and re-doing everything a thousand times, following the principle "measure once, cut tons of times, then throw everything out"

DSC02079.JPG


So, after three months of cutting, grinding, drilling, cursing, soldering and being electrocuted (sparks included :shock:), here is my creation.

DSC02082.JPG

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And it is EVil :twisted:

DSC02083.JPG


Yesssss, EEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVillll. Gas cars- beware!

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Overall, the range is less than I hoped for, but is still respectable for something that weights about >40kg with the battery (the battery weights 10kg alone). I'm very happy with being able to go to work and back a couple of times without recharging, no pedalling, full-throttle all the way, all the motorcycle lights on, up 15% hills. The feeling and acceleration is just incredible! At red lights I accelerate faster than most cars for a few seconds. I usually disconnect the rear chain and drive without the annoying freewheel ratchet noise. Whhheeeeeeeeuuuuuuu is the sound of future =)

Specs:

Top speed on flats, no wind in the face, no pedalling: 44 km/h
Top speed downhill ever recorded: 50 km/h
Speed up moderate hills (10%-15% grade), no pedalling: 30 km/h
Range with everything on, additional 15 kg load in my backpack, front/rear lights on, full-throttle all the way, absolutely no pedalling: ~45 km
Wheel size rear: 24 inch, 3 inch tire (same total circumference as 26 inch MTB wheel)
Wheel size front: 20 inch, 3 inch tire

Been riding it for a few weeks now- absolutely incredible feeling. As Braveheart would scream "Freeeedooom!!!!". :D
 
HI

Thats a real nice looking ride man!! good job! sorry to hear you got stung on your first pack but glad to hear that ping sorted you out in the end. Would love to see some more pictures or video, glad you got the EV grin as well, you could hardly fail with such a cool looking ride, why take the car indeed!! we need more slick machines like this,,thanks for posting.

Knoxie
 
Hi Gonzo,

beautiful bike, 3 months looks well spent to me and it wouldn't be that gorgeous if you had completed in two weeks!!!
well done, its lovely :)
i wonder if you reverse the batt box/or pack inside, could you eliminate the power cables visible from the left side of the bike - shorter run too?
either way minor observation on a great conversion, sweet!!


Cheers,


D
 
Yeah, that Golden Motor pulls pretty hard, doesn't it? I'm wondering what it would be like in 20" and 96V. 8)
 
Nice!.. uh,... in an evil kind of way.

You might like to spend a little more $ and get the 9" HID from HarborFreight... it would look badassical on the front and save lots of power. Bright as hell too.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95059
 
Has it got any brakes?
 
Gonzo said:
...started the creative process or cutting and fitting and sawing and re-doing everything a thousand times, following the principle "measure once, cut tons of times, then throw everything out"
That's a man that knows how things really work.

Absolutely clean looking build... and it's good to see people confess that it doesn't happen easily or by accident, but through hard work.

Excellent "job". :)
 
Thank you guys for all the positive feedback- it's great to know that my "chop-job" is appreciated :D

Mark_A_W: Yes, it got a rear 200mm disk brake. At least it got it up to about 35kph- after that the "brake" becomes a "gradual slowing device". It is just not very effective at high speeds. So I'll drive carefully until the solution is found. There is a disk caliper mount on the front forks, but no disk mount on the hub. Great design guys from Giant! It's either the front wheel has to be redone completely (can't find any disk hubs with 48 holes) with 36 hole hub, or something else... I'm currently looking at front drum brakes. What do you guys think about one of those:

http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/COMPHUDRM/HU2200

It seems to be a very strong drum brake from reviews. I don't really need the dynamo option- all the power is provided by the battery. But who cares =)

You might like to spend a little more $ and get the 9" HID from HarborFreight... it would look badassical on the front and save lots of power. Bright as hell too.

Well, the headlight I got is the one used by Harleys. It is sooo bright at night that everything is illuminated like 300m ahead of the bike, in a 160 degree cone of light. That is without using the high-beam that is included :p Yeah, it wastes power, but with 20ah who cares. Most of the power is wasted by the bike's weight, anyway. Not using the light at all will probably add 5km to the range, tops. Thanks for the suggestion, though. WAIT! 9"?!? That thing is HUGE! It's like bigger than my head :shock: It'd make the bike look like a lamp on wheels :lol:

Link: Yeah, I really like that cheapo Golden Motor. Takes quite a bit of abuse. I wouldn't push it as far as 96V though :twisted: 96V + Golden Motor = melted motor. Golden Motors are just not designed for that kind of power! That is what Crystallites are good for- those are build with thick magnet wires that can take much more than the "official" value. Golden Motors are already heating up quite a bit at 48V. And even at this voltage I had to do some modifications. Basically, I replaced power leads with 16 AWG Teflon wires- so at least those will not melt. But the wires inside the motor will probably melt at 96V... You can try and let me know what happens :twisted:

i wonder if you reverse the batt box/or pack inside, could you eliminate the power cables visible from the left side of the bike - shorter run too?

deecanio: yeah, that's one messy part still left to fix. The trouble is with my "measure once cut ten times" "approach". I drilled the left side of the box for power wires, and now these buckles on the box don't let me turn it over 180- the chain guard on the other side does not allow that, since it was flush-fitted to the box's backside. Anyway, I'll find a solution soon =)

Still looking for the front brake solution- suggestions are welcome.

Thank you everybody and cheers!
 
Gonzo said:
Link: Yeah, I really like that cheapo Golden Motor. Takes quite a bit of abuse. I wouldn't push it as far as 96V though :twisted: 96V + Golden Motor = melted motor. Golden Motors are just not designed for that kind of power! That is what Crystallites are good for- those are build with thick magnet wires that can take much more than the "official" value. Golden Motors are already heating up quite a bit at 48V. And even at this voltage I had to do some modifications. Basically, I replaced power leads with 16 AWG Teflon wires- so at least those will not melt. But the wires inside the motor will probably melt at 96V... You can try and let me know what happens :twisted:

What amperage you running it at? I've got a 40A controller and the lithium lets me full-throttle it from stops with no penalties, which I have become quite fond of. Mine doesn't get hot or even very warm, but then again I have no hills whatsoever.

Seems to be the way of things: Get new, better motor in 26" rim, relace old motor into 20" rim, add some volts, and see what happens. According to my calculations, a Golden in a 20" at 96V should do exactly 40mph. 8)
 
Link said:
Gonzo said:
Link: Yeah, I really like that cheapo Golden Motor. Takes quite a bit of abuse. I wouldn't push it as far as 96V though :twisted: 96V + Golden Motor = melted motor. Golden Motors are just not designed for that kind of power! That is what Crystallites are good for- those are build with thick magnet wires that can take much more than the "official" value. Golden Motors are already heating up quite a bit at 48V. And even at this voltage I had to do some modifications. Basically, I replaced power leads with 16 AWG Teflon wires- so at least those will not melt. But the wires inside the motor will probably melt at 96V... You can try and let me know what happens :twisted:

What amperage you running it at? I've got a 40A controller and the lithium lets me full-throttle it from stops with no penalties, which I have become quite fond of. Mine doesn't get hot or even very warm, but then again I have no hills whatsoever.

Seems to be the way of things: Get new, better motor in 26" rim, relace old motor into 20" rim, add some volts, and see what happens. According to my calculations, a Golden in a 20" at 96V should do exactly 40mph. 8)

Wait, Link, I don't get it- are you actually running Golden Motor at 96V already, or at 48V? You mean it is not melting at all? :shock: Maybe getting hot enough for a couple of fried eggs at least? How heavy is your bike (with all gadgets, batteries)?

I already got a 24 inch rim in the back of the bike- 20 inch would definitely not go with the motorcycle look. The front is 20", though- did anyone try 2 motors? All wheel drive? :twisted: Or will one motor just drag another without noticeable speed or torque gain?

I'm finally on the way of solving the stopping problem once and for all. The rear disc brake is just not strong enough for quick stops- it makes grinding noises and I'm afraid it'll break (as in self-destruct) in emergency. So here is what I got:

DSC02094.JPG


A Sturmey Archer XF-D front drum brake! 8) It has some good reviews, claiming that the stopping power EXCEEDS most disc brakes at a fraction of a cost. Gotta build a wheel around it now. Anyone knows good 20" rims with 36 holes, black, that can take A LOT of torque and stress?
 
Awesome ride, I bet the golden motor hauls at 48v! Are you using a 12v zener to run the controller at 48v? How did the disk brake installation go? Many thanks to you again for your help with the covers. :D

Great job!
 
Hi Gonzo,


I had no issues with my 20" and i thumped it about off road , dual wall, 32mm wide, i think you need to look at bmx rims?
they're pretty cheap too.....

just as a guide mine were "gusset black dogs" if you google im sure it will throw up more to choose from........




cheers,


D
 
Gonzo said:
Wait, Link, I don't get it- are you actually running Golden Motor at 96V already, or at 48V? You mean it is not melting at all? :shock: Maybe getting hot enough for a couple of fried eggs at least? How heavy is your bike (with all gadgets, batteries)?

Not YET I'm not. 8)

I'm running it at 48V 40A in a 26" now, with testing at 72V 40A in the works. :wink:

Eh, I'mma have to guess at this one. The bike stock weighed about 25lbs (about what it felt like, anyway), with the motor adding another like 20 (I never actually weighed the thing :p). Then the batteries add another 20. I weighed 180lbs, last time I checked. So guessing about 245lbs total. Round it to 250lbs.


Gonzo said:
I already got a 24 inch rim in the back of the bike- 20 inch would definitely not go with the motorcycle look. The front is 20", though- did anyone try 2 motors? All wheel drive? :twisted: Or will one motor just drag another without noticeable speed or torque gain?

I'd use (and plan to use, in fact) two of the same motor in the same size wheel. Since you can now safely run a total of double the current you were running before, you should only see a very slight increase in top speed, but a drastic difference in the takeoff.

Gonzo said:
Anyone knows good 20" rims with 36 holes, black, that can take A LOT of torque and stress?

I think the ones ebikes.ca use are double walled aluminum and I guess hold up to even an X5 pretty well. Might want to try those?
 
Johnbear said:
Awesome ride, I bet the golden motor hauls at 48v! Are you using a 12v zener to run the controller at 48v? How did the disk brake installation go? Many thanks to you again for your help with the covers. :D

Great job!


Thanks, Johnbear (I'll keep on using your nick to avoid blowing your cover :wink: )! Yeah, I was surprised that a single Golden Motor is able to pull such a heavy build up pretty much any hill, although it does get quite slow on some huge 20 degree hills- slows down to almost 15 kph sometimes. Most of the hills it doesn't even notice, hovewer- keeps going up at the healthy 30kph. The lack of suspension is slightly offset by huge 3 inch tires- underinflating them keeps 40kph rides fairly comfy. The disk brake installation went ok, though the adapters from ebike.ca were quite a low quality and did not fit flush against each other- I had to use a huge vise grip to get enough torque to thread them onto the motor cover. The adapter is not 100% straight, so the disk is just a little bit wobbly and does not have enough stopping power to stop the bike by itself.

I found a remedy for that problem, though. Here is my brand new front drum brake installed:

DSC02123.JPG
DSC02124.JPG


Had to fully rebuild the front wheel- the radial spoking that looked so cool is gone. Well, the ONLY thing radial spoking is good for is looks. It should never be used on a wheel with a disk or drum brake- the torque will most likely rip out some spokes at some point. The brake is Sturney Archer with a 9mm axle- had to do some adjustments to fit it into the 16mm Stiletto dropouts- seems to hold nicely so far. And the stopping distance is now like 3 meters down from around 15 :shock:. No more holding on to my dear life while commuting :D
 
so you are using a 36v motor with 48 volts?
did you modify anything to the controller? is still the stock 36v controller from golden motors?
 
Hi Gonzo,


the bike looks freakin mint mate !!!!!
nice job with the front brake, looks way cool - i've never really considered a chopper but this is giving me ideas to us my spare kit to build one - simply inspirational :)


Cheers

D
 
Awesome build...
what are you using to run the lights ?
do you have a 48v-12v converter ?

Pics and detail if you can... thanks !
Don
 
I'm running the 36V GoldenMotor controller at 48V (we'll, it is more like 60V when the battery is fully charged). It required a small modification to accept 48V, since by default it cuts out at around 43V. To "fool" the controller into thinking it is run at stock voltage I added a 10V Zener diode in series with the large 150 OHM resistor (there is only one big 5W resistor there). Seems to be running great so far. The controller barely heats up and the motor is just reasonably warm even when I drive it in the hottest summer days. My longest _continuous_ rides (most of the time with 100% throttle) were about 20 km so far (for a total of about 45-70km range), and nothing has ever overheated. Another thing I had to do was to replace stock phase power wires to the motor with 16AWG military-grade teflon wires. The stock ones are just too thin, poorly insulated and could melt with higher voltage. This requires opening up the motor, cutting off old phase wires from motor windings and soldering/crimping new ones in.

Recently I has a small, but weird malfunction with the motor. I was going uphill and suddenly the ride became "choppy"- I would experience sudden jerks and the whole bike started to jump up and down like it was on a clown suspension. I was like "great, here comes the molten motor, like people warned me". Stopped, checked all the wires, drove the bike home on pedals- felt like such a sucker, having to use muscle power to produce simple locomotion :x Kidding- I still ride regular bikes all the time :D Opened up the motor- everything looked "mint". No molten wires, no smell of burned insulation. Then I noticed something. There was a tiny TINY piece of solder stuck in between two leads to one of the Hall sensors. Apparently, under heat the glue insulating the leads melted and the piece of solder gradually "sunk" in, until it reached the leads and shorted them out. Chinese production quality- it seems like they didn't bother to clean the inside of the motor before closing it up! :evil:

Anyway, that short is now removed and the bike runs as great as ever. So far I have accumulated 1000km on my odometer, overvolting the motor at 48V, barely ever using the pedals, and enjoying the ride hell of a much! Only wish there was suspension! :lol: Did any of you guys ever manage to adopt triple-t suspension from dirt bikes to one of the regular bikes?
 
I really want to add an mtb double crown fork. Unfortunately the head tube on the Stiletto is just too long. Most mtb triples have a steerer of about 280mm when new, it is just not long enough for this headtube. I was even thinking of having a custom steerer tube/lower crown assembly made, but then there is the matter of fork leg length. The head tube is too long for the clamp zone on the fork legs. That could be solved by making an upper crown with enough drop to reach the fork legs, but this is more drop than any manufacturer offers, that would have to be custom machined. Too much $$$ I decided. In the end I decided to get a new frame that included rear suspension with a shorter head tube.
 
For some "real" looking chopper forks, check out this site:

http://www.bicycledesigner.com/defaulthome.asp?Main=/datasheet.asp%3FPartNumber%3D513020

I really like the springers, very old-school. 8)
Don
 
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