the great napkin exchange

[liveforphysics]

There's a big element in compromise in any bike design, though. I'd guess that a GP bike is optimised for rapid changes of direction and good handling (i.e. telling the rider what's going on) at the expense of comfort and straight line stability, for example.

There is no motorcycle design more stable at speed than a superbike my friend. You can be buzzing down the freeway at 100mph, and just climb off the side of the bike, standing your feet on each other on the peg on one side, and shake the bike by the fuel tank as hard as you like, and you can't upset it. lol A modern superbike feels so comfortable, stable, and controlable with your hands off the bars riding, if they came with a radio-controlled throttle setup, you would never need to even touch the bars on the highway. They are so insanely stable, even curvy roads are fun and easy to ride with no hands on the bars, you just lean and jerk the bike with your thighs to initiate the turns.

I've rode a handful of bikes of all different types from the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, 2000s. I've never found ANYTHING as stable as a modern sportbike, but I have ridden a lot of types of bike that felt scary as hell and required lots of concentration just to ride at freeway speeds. I think frame flex and awful dampener design is as much at fault as the geometry, but even my uncles giant R1200GS BMW touring bike doesn't offer the stability of modern sport bikes. They are like a cruise missle, people wheelie and fall of the back of them, and they continue for miles down the road on their own sometimes. lol

As far as comfort goes, it really depends on what type of riding you're looking to do. A bike that forces an upright riding position gets very old buzzing down the freeway at triple digit speeds from all the wind battering. A superbike a much less fatiguing and more comfortable in that situation. If you're mainly riding around town or in stop-n-go traffic, then all your upper body weight on your wrists and a very firm clutch pull gets taxing after a bit, and a more upright situation yeilds better comfort. It does not mean the suspension geometry should be altered though if you perfere the upright position, just bar/seat location.

At least that's my $0.02

 

[liveforphysics]

This exhibits the stability of a modern sport bike pretty well.

[youtube]R57S094U6Is[/youtube]

Lol, or this one.

[youtube]od-_m4NVRns[/youtube]

 

[dingoEsride]

I like how the second guy starts his bike and goes straight for the stray bike

This fellow is absolutely legend and always finishes with flip

[youtube]z3CtxFAtLgM[/youtube]

edit: Sorry that this post was a bit off topic, blame liveforphysics

 

[def215]

for christ sake! i cant find a napkin...lol

but the idea has been burning in the back of my head to build a stand-up scooter. something small and compact, im thinking smaller than the razor kick scooters in length. and around that size. but then again, something about those teaser pictures that lock put up in his build thread has me intrigued to build something in the image of it, sort of like a kickbike. also i want to incorporate friction-drive into it, since ive never owned something that had friction-drive before. i almost feel like im missing out...

ill sketch something out on "napkin" tomorrow during my lectures in school when i get bored...

EDIT: i came up with something on my "Napkin". its not incredibly amazing or anything special, but its something that i would like to become a tangible object one day.

my main inspiration for this is after seeing a kickbike with a 2-stroke motor attached to it and thought it looked pretty cool. but im not sure how a friction drive rc will act like on the front tire of the scooter. the main thing i want is compactness out of it but also being able to somewhat tackle terrain. i dont know, its just really an idea and something that came to me because of boredom. im sure ill dream of something else better because i think this idea was really a shot in the dark. now that i think of it, its not so great...

 

[gestalt]

I'm buying a few 3foot sticks of 2"X6" square aluminum tubing, they are 1/8" wall and are a bargain. I wish I had the $ to scoop up all 25 of them. so I got to work on a frame design using them and this is what I came up with. I borrowed a lot from the santacruz motoped.

the only thing is, I don't know how to weld aluminum. but I could cut all the pieces and I think I know of someone to give me a hand putting them all together. I am pretty sure I could make the frame out of two of the 3foot pieces, I plan on picking up six of them for $5 a piece and think some of my pals might pick up the rest so I would know where to get more.

 

[gestalt]

Def,

Seems like a great idea, I think a Kepler drive would be good for getting rid of the motor drag when you are coasting. I would want to put a larger wheel on the back though. Something like the wheels they put on kick scooters back in the early 90's.

 

[liveforphysics]

I'm buying a few 3foot sticks of 2"X6" square aluminum tubing, they are 1/8" wall and are a bargain. I wish I had the $ to scoop up all 25 of them. so I got to work on a frame design using them and this is what I came up with. I borrowed a lot from the santacruz motoped.

the only thing is, I don't know how to weld aluminum. but I could cut all the pieces and I think I know of someone to give me a hand putting them all together. I am pretty sure I could make the frame out of two of the 3foot pieces, I plan on picking up six of them for $5 a piece and think some of my pals might pick up the rest so I would know where to get more.

Fantastic! That would work out well. That geometry in a frame is a dream to ride.

 

[AussieJester]

ok, here's a 3D view of the angel, I really need to get my hands on a bootleg copy of solid works so I can really start with the design work on this one.

I have SOLIDWORKS.V2008.X86 if you want a copy pm your address and i'll post it too you on disk.

KiM

 

[def215]

Def,

Seems like a great idea, I think a Kepler drive would be good for getting rid of the motor drag when you are coasting. I would want to put a larger wheel on the back though. Something like the wheels they put on kick scooters back in the early 90's.

dont get me wrong, i think the kepler drive is fantastic and i would like to own one someday, but i wanted to use my own ideas for this napkin exchange. i also like to have my brain working to come up with new and plausible ideas that can possibly work.

yeah. i think it could possibly use a bigger wheel in the back. and i also thought about it, if i make it with a short wheelbase, wouldnt it get twitchy up at speed? i think i experienced this with a gas scooter i built. it was short wheelbase, like a razor kick scooter, and it had small wheels, the 100mm wheels. all i can say is that it was a scary thing to ride... ill get to brainstorming again...lol.

also, the electric moped that you modeled after the santacruz motoped is definitely something id like to see come to life gestalt! i really like how it has sort of an offroad look to it, which makes it look really rugged.

 

[Sheriff Jon]

I know this is an Electric orientated board, and this thread is about sketches, renderings, drawings and dreams about Electric bikes. I ran across this just the other day, and have never shared it with anyone. It is a rough sketch that I did years ago before I got into Electrics, and hope you can forgive me and my blasphemous ICE drawing of a low rider custom rat scooter.

 

[gestalt]

Sherrifjon,

I love that mini springer, and the cop theme. Need to throw some red and blue flashers on it, nix the ice and you're good to go. Seems like it would make an easy build, I'd like to see someone here make a kick gass scooter with some style.

 

[gestalt]

okay, so only a third of it is mine. still if my theoretical 2 sticks per frame holds true and I think it will, that is four bikes!

though I need to learn to weld aluminum before this really gets beyond the napkin...

/anyone ever watch the cartoon "golden boy" ?

//study! study! study! study!

*edit

here is a slightly reworked cuberunner, I lowered the motor mount a bit and added a fender. the fender would presumably be made out of the same material

 

[etard]

That's a dope design man! I might have to copy that, if you don't mind. :?

What a find on that aluminum, helluva deal!! I paid $45 for a 48" section of 4" x 4" 1/8 wall aluminum that I plan to make a fully integrated unit that serves as a seat too.

 

[gestalt]

That's a dope design man! I might have to copy that, if you don't mind. :?

dont mind one bit brotha, I feel all info shared here is pretty much public domain.

I have another welding gig coming into my shop that involves a bunch of 5"X3" steel tubing and I decided to build a new frame to replace the stretch cruiser I have been working on forever out of what's left from the job. also I'm going to use different batteries and put those a123's into something else. here is a basic Idea of what I think I want to do with that steel coming in

using most of the components that I allready have and just switching up the battery and frame.

 

[AussieJester]

I like the design, as long as you dont plan on pedalling sitting down... :lol:

KiM

 

[northernmike]

reminds me of

shinya kimura's "needle"

 

[northernmike]

also re: acrobatics on two wheels:

[youtube]59f8aLsGPzY[/youtube]

 

[gestalt]

Northernmike,

Kimura is my frikin idol man, if we can start making bikes the way he does it will take ebikes/emotos to the next level. It's what makes me so exited about seeing the electric revolution unfold. Real frontier action

Aussiejester,

After doing some reading up on the moped laws here in Massachusetts I've found there are some pretty lax laws for the 35mph moped category. And in Boston I think there is a real viable market. The pedals are mostly for technicality reasons but I would want them to be a bit more functional than the mopeds you pedal to start. At least have a better gear ratio.

 

[bigmoose]

gestalt, your concepts and drawings are great! The best in engineering always happens when there is an artist along for the ride. I know that I default all to often into minimalist-critical path design; when with about 10% more material, it would have some pizazz!

 

[gestalt]

The best in engineering always happens when there is an artist along for the ride.

And I'm find out what it is like to be a designer with no engineer along for the ride. A couple months ago a couple of my compatriots and I decided to rent some shop space with the idea of creating a little motored bike fab/community bicycle repair shop. After resigning myself to having to build a couple of smokers to sell to get ebike capital I just built them up. Whearas my stretch cruiser just languishes as a pile of parts and shattered dreams.
I think what I really need to do is just scrap the stretch and build off this new design. Do as much as I can myself then farm out the finishing touches to some ev pro or engineer. I tell you what, if it wasn't valentines day I would be at the shop right now staring at a pile of parts and steel on the floor.

 

[northernmike]

"All good art is science, and all good science, art..." :wink:

 

[Lock]

Thought this was fun:
http://blog.madsencycles.com/cargo/2009/02/madsen-concept-sketch.html
View attachment Madsen.bmp

I was going through some of my old notebooks and found some of the very first sketches of the MADSEN. This sketch is the first time I thought of putting the load on the back. I total remember sitting in my truck sketching while I should have been working. Up until that sketch all my designs were cargo forward.

Jared Madsen, founder of MADSEN Cycles February 11, 2009

 

[gestalt]

some more napkins floating around.

new look and layout for the board tracker concept.

some DH inspired Ebikes with GNG style drive systems. crappy cowling on and off. I guess I was going for some kind of motoped dx look. didn't really work out.