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deronmoped
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Something very important left out of the article.
We still need oil for other things, even to produce the solar panels they are talking about. So the cost associated with getting oil to the market will not go away with solar panels.
Deron.
We still need oil for other things, even to produce the solar panels they are talking about. So the cost associated with getting oil to the market will not go away with solar panels.
Deron.
knightmb
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I agree we will never be rid of oil products, like plastic, but at least we can use it more wisely for things that last longer than to burn it up in an instant only to capture a small percentage of the energy in the engine and leave the rest as waste.deronmoped said:
TPA
10 kW
It kinda sounds like this discussion is directed at generating electricity for household needs and possibly some transportation needs, and not fuel for cars and trucks. With than in mind, very little to no electricity is generated with oil.
I'm assuming the article also means non-oil energy companies as well. But, it will require the capital investment of a very large company to build the solar plants needed for industrial use. So will we still be under the thumb of large corporations for energy? I guess not, if you have the means to produce what you need for personal use, and the company you work for produces its own energy.
I'm assuming the article also means non-oil energy companies as well. But, it will require the capital investment of a very large company to build the solar plants needed for industrial use. So will we still be under the thumb of large corporations for energy? I guess not, if you have the means to produce what you need for personal use, and the company you work for produces its own energy.
deronmoped
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Well, the rate at which we use oil is tied to the price of it, not if we have solar panels are not. If the price of oil drops because we are using more solar, we will surely find other uses for it, or use it more freely.
Deron.
Deron.
knightmb
100 kW
Perhaps, my take was that if you have a roof full of solar panels, that means you can charge your transportation, similar to what I do with my e-bike. I have solar panels on my roof that charge a battery bank. I use that power to recharge my e-bike batteries, I use my e-bike to travel, errands, food, etc.TPA said:
Scale it up to a full sized car and you are talking about a direct hit on oil using vehicles.
Imagine a mining operation where instead of using oil to power trucks, the trucks are now all electric. They just use a big solar array to charge them when not in use. They no longer need to have their own "gas station", but instead it's replaced with a power station of batteries. That I think is the point he meant in that it will indirectly affect oil producers for fuel.
Mining companies have used electric trucks for years. unfortunately, it's the on-board v10 Diesel generator that provides the electricity, in some cases (South Africa) a trolley assist operates on the ramps into and out of the mining pits, almost identical to a regular tram system with overhead lines carrying the electricity. This electricity is made from coal! (Solar alternative for this at least).
it would take a lot of batteries to move a 300 metric tonne dump truck up a 5% ramp, i think that's a while away.
Gow.
it would take a lot of batteries to move a 300 metric tonne dump truck up a 5% ramp, i think that's a while away.
Gow.
knightmb
100 kW
Just goes to show I know nothing about miningGow864 said:
If you know how much generator wattage is takes to run everything, then you know what you need to replace it with a bank of batteries and solar panels. Great thing about watts, easy to work with the math.
paultrafalgar
10 kW
What a wonderful sentiment! I wish he were right, however, I fear that the elite scum that run the planet worship hierarchical domination (the pyramid) and would much rather destroy this civilisation than relinquish power.nutsandvolts said:
knightmb said:Just goes to show I know nothing about miningGow864 said:
If you know how much generator wattage is takes to run everything, then you know what you need to replace it with a bank of batteries and solar panels. Great thing about watts, easy to work with the math.
Hey, it's totally possible. though, can you imagine how big the solar farm and battery store would be to power 30+ dump trucks all burning 4,000lts diesel per shift. Not to mention the processing plant. It all requires the energy density of oil
deronmoped
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It would be like trying to power a thousand foot long cargo ship with sails. Sailing, green energy right, sounds pretty ridiculous when you actually start to think about applying it.
Deron.
Deron.
knightmb
100 kW
Not so much, Alaska has a battery bank big enough to power one of it's entire city for 7 minutes (an entire city!!) using nothing but massive 13,730 cell NiCad setup.deronmoped said:
Link:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2861493/Worlds-biggest-battery-switched-on-in-Alaska.html
julesa
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There's already a 450 foot cargo freighter that can get 30% of its power from wind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ms_Beluga_Skysails
I don't think a 100% wind powered cargo freighter is an inherently ridiculous idea, given enough advances in hydrodynamics, aerodynamics, and lightweight/low friction materials. It's probably not practical in the next decade or two, but it could happen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ms_Beluga_Skysails
I don't think a 100% wind powered cargo freighter is an inherently ridiculous idea, given enough advances in hydrodynamics, aerodynamics, and lightweight/low friction materials. It's probably not practical in the next decade or two, but it could happen.
deronmoped
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julesa said:
That is a cool idea, I wonder if it worked out the way they said it would?
Still a commercial cargo sailing ship, like they all used to be, is a ridiculous idea in this modern society. I do not know if you guys have ever done any sailing, but you soon find out it is one slow, long way to travel. You would be at the total mercy of the wind, go, no go, slow go, which direction you had to tack to get to where you want to go, storms... I have spent more then enough time bobbing around in a ocean race with no wind to realize that wind power is fickle.
Commercial sailing ships were abandoned a long time ago for a good reason, they suck compared to fast, on time, maneuverable... engine powered ships.
Plus, if you have ever been on a sailboat, you notice real quick how many extra people you bring along just to sail the boat. Sails would be a redundant system like on the boat you pointed out in Wikipedia, how many extra trained crew members would you need to sail that ship, then you have the maintenance of sails (heavy sail for strong winds, medium sail for lighter winds, light sail for real light winds, spares...) lines, wenches, motors...
Plus, if you ever have been on a sail boat, the wind can change drastically, at times that sail that was powering you along so beautifully could end up in the water if you were not careful and paying close attention to the wind. On a huge tanker, what are you going to do if you get a big wind shift or the wind dies. You have a huge (6500 square foot) sail up there, the wind dies (or there is a big shift) and the sail is dropping down into the water in front of the ship. Somehow you have to get that sail down onto the ship or you are screwed. You could lose the sail and the lines, or even worse you could run the sail over and be dragging it across the ocean. Then you have to back the ship down and try to free the sail. Or even worse the lines or the sail get into the rudder or propeller. At this point you are totally screwed, you have a crew that sucks and does not know what to do, your out in the middle of the ocean with heavy wind and seas, what a nightmare!
Sailing yeah right, you guys need to experience some.
Deron.
deronmoped
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knightmb said:
Why?
Deron.
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julesa
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deronmoped said:
I thought wenches were bad luck on boats? :lol: Yes, they should still have redundant systems, but like I said before, given enough advances in materials science and hydrodynamics, there's no reason the dino-powered motors couldn't be the backup rather than the primary power source.
I used to race small sailboats. I regularly came in last, but I have done some sailing.
Big sailboats these days are computer controlled. Check this one out -- 289 feet, 100% sail power. It can be operated by one man. He keeps a small crew for maintenance though.
http://www.wired.com/culture/design/magazine/15-07/ff_boat
The 439 foot Royal Clipper can be run by a crew of 20, but usually runs with 100, many of which are busy serving passengers food and booze. It does have diesel engines for backup, but doesn't normally use them.
http://www.starclippers.com/ships_rc.html
paultrafalgar
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deronmoped said:
Deron, look at the facts : 523.25 days payback on the Beluga system!
See: http://www.sail-world.com/UK/Merchant-ships-and-superyachts---the-age-of-sail?/39943
"Pulled by a huge kite to catch strong winds up to 300 metres above the surface, the 500,000 euro ($837,200) SkySails system is projected to cut fuel costs by about 20 per cent - or about $1,600 per day"
It's a no brainer, Deron, $837,200 divided by $1600 per day!
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deronmoped
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I still don't buy it. That sail would be blown out long before it reached it's payback. And what are you looking at a half dozen years before you get that many days use out of the sail. The winds are not favorable every single day the ship is on the water. And all it would take is one bad wind shift and the whole mess would be lost to the ocean.
Anyways, do they say how many ships use this system if it is so great?
Deron.
Anyways, do they say how many ships use this system if it is so great?
Deron.
paultrafalgar
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Deron, why don't you tell the Military Sealift Command that they are idiots! Their address is here at the bottom:
http://www.msc.navy.mil/N00p/pressrel/press08/press45.htm
http://www.msc.navy.mil/N00p/pressrel/press08/press45.htm
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deronmoped
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paultrafalgar said:
Why would you want me to tell them they are idiots? Did they do something really stupid?
So this is the only ship in the world out there that is using this sail, if it works out, more power to them.
I'm just telling you guys from my experience, what happens when you are out there sailing.
Deron.
deronmoped
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nutsandvolts said:
Demand is high, so is there more then just one ship out there with this sail?
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Invest in gold!
Why are technicians expecting $2,000 to $4,000 gold??
http://www.goldvest.org/Why_Invest_in_Gold.html
I would be careful when it comes to putting your money down. So many things are highly speculative. They advertise buying gold like crazy on the radio, telling you gold could double. Same thing goes with solar. It may look attractive because there are so many "artificial" incentives, but you never know when the government support could drop out from under you.
Deron.
