The Student-Made Industrial-Strength Electric Tricycle

MikeFairbanks said:
I find it hard to believe that the small little hub motor will actually pull significant weight at a decent speed. It seems so small. But we'll soon see.
Click to expand...
It does seem small...but that motor looks like the same one I have, the E-Bikekit.com 2807 9C motor, in a 26" wheel. If so, then on my CrazyBike2 it is pulling my 140-160lbs plus the bike's own 150lbs+, at 20MPH with no problems, starting up and accelerating fairly zippily considering my small controller and poor abused 48V 13Ah NiMH batteries. Does this every workday for my 5-mile+ round trip commute, without getting hot (warm, not hot), with no pedalling from me these days.

It can also do the same job with only a little more effort and power hauling an extra 120lbs, in three 40lb bags of dogfood. One in each cargo pod, plus one behind me in the seat, for the 3-mile ride home. Acceleration is noticeably more sluggish, though.

The same motor and an even smaller controller, same batteries, can do the same thing on the lighter (80lbs+) DayGlo Avenger, for about 20 miles with some pedalling, and a few miles less with no pedalling at all.

The same motor and another 12V of NiMH can make CrazyBike2 go 31.5MPH on the go-kart racetrack down in Tucson, as shown during the Undead Race this past Halloween. :) Didn't feel brave enough to add the other 36V of NiMH to see what speed that would get to. :lol:


An even smaller and lighter motor, the Fusin geared hubmotor, can do about the same (about 17-18MPH) at 36V, with some pedalling, though it's never been tested at higher voltages or on a racetrack. :)


Also, both motors have hauled an additional 200lbs+ of cargo (and/or dog(s)) in a kennel trailer, at 13-18MPH depending on conditions. The limiting factor is more the trailer than the motor, really, in that I'm afraid of tipping it or breaking it on potholes. ;)
 
Update: Friday, December 16:

The bump, bump, bump is definitely once per revolution, and it's in the read on the right side. The wheel doesn't seem to have a noticable wobble in it (such as a bent rim), but could need to be tightened up. I'll examine it more today (or this weekend).

Today I'll show the kids how well it rides (it's charging right now at 8am).

Does anyone know how long it should take to charge it? 36 volt SLA battery.

NOTE: Aside from the bumpty, bump, bump, this thing is a real pleasure to ride. Super fun.

I'll update again later today.
 
The charger will be rated 36v and " x " amps

this X determines how long it takes to recharge your pack.

lets say you have a 12 ah pack..

And if you look on the charger for this X number, it will be listed as " Output : 2 amps " .. or something similar.. likely 2 amps.. it will take one hour to put 2ah back into the pack. ( roughly speaking ).

so you can gauge how deeply you are draining the pack.

that 12ah SLA.. will only deliver 6ah at the speed the ebike drains it ( google " Peukert effect " ).. so if can take up to 3~4 hours to fully charge an empty pack with a 2amp charger..

a quick spin around the hallway should only take 10 to 20 minutes to re-fill.

lithium is much better at this than SLA... way more efficient.. a 12ah pack.. will give you 12ah.
 
The bump in the rear end could be from something loose in the bearing or hub. If you lift the suspect wheel and try to wiggle it, you can see if there is any side play. Loose spokes are another possibility.
 
UPDATE: DECEMBER 16, 2010

So, I rode the tricycle home from work (the students are out for the holiday break). It was a lot of fun.

There is a lot of information I can share from the twenty-minute ride:

1. Tricycles feel every bump in the road. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it takes some getting used to. When you ride up sloped curbs you have to really slow down, otherwise you'll get jolted.

2. Tricycles turn funny. You have to learn how to ride one, which is odd considering that you don't have to know how to ride a bike to ride one, but it sure is odd to feel like you're about to fall over and turning the handle bars fixes your balance. It's a very unique feel. I would say that if you want excitement, a bicycle is more the call. But a tricycle has its advantages too, especially the Worksmans, because you can load all kinds of gear on it and the handling can only get better. I can ride around with a passenger. Can't say that for a bike. Over the holiday break I'm going to build a seat/bench for the back so that my kids and I can horse around in it. I'll also build a box/trunk of some type.

3. I charged the battery this morning and it hit a full charge around 11am. I then unplugged it. I rode it a bit in the school building (well, not much really) and then this evening rode it home. The outside air temperature was about 45-50 degrees (felt quite pleasant, actually). The ride was five miles with three steep hills.

The motor pulled well. I could feel, however, the power dropping off through the ride (as a result of the SLA batteries and the way they release power). I pedaled a bit on the hills and that helped a good bit. But for the five-mile commute it works great. I didn't break a sweat, which was fine by me.

Even though I lost a good bit of tourque toward the end of the ride, the top end speed remained the same on the flats. I tooled around the neighborhood (showing off a bit) and then parked it in the garage and plugged it in.

In terms of range, it's hard to say what this setup can do. You know how you read "range will very due to rider weight and riding conditions"? Well, that's absolutely true. I think on the flats this could easily get ten, maybe more miles out of it. On my commute five miles is about all the trike wants to do. But there's also something else to consider: The tires were very low on air. I forgot my airpump and once I was on my way home from school, I said "forget it" and just rode on low tires. Tomorrow, with inflated tires, I should get much better efficiency out of the system.

Tomorrow I'll do some maintenance and get some things worked out (bugs in the trike, not the electrical system), and get some of the wiring into a better system of protection.

Very fun, this hobby. I can already see how it won't be long until I'm working on a bike for myself (since the trike is a school project). When I do the bike project I'll do it with a Worksman Industrial Bicycle, and without a doubt will buy Ebikekit again. The kit went on perfectly, and any mistakes were mine (and they were minor).

Stay tuned...
 
Just 1 string of LiPo in there... all the power you could ever want... no voltage sag...hills climb as easily as flats... ;) ;) ;)
 
Hehe, tricycles are not sport rides, not this type I mean. Tadpole trikes can be very sportive, though.

When you build your own, you might want to consider suspension, especially if you build with better performance modern batteries, and controller. That makes the ride another experience.
 
My next build will definitely be a bicycle, and will use lipo for the power. But I will say this: For those living in flat areas, the SLA packs are probably fine, because the faster the motor goes, the more efficiently it uses energy.

Today I'm going to work on the trike, tighten things up a bit, and have some fun opening it up on the flats.
 
MikeFairbanks said:
Update: Friday, December 16:

The bump, bump, bump is definitely once per revolution, and it's in the read on the right side. The wheel doesn't seem to have a noticable wobble in it (such as a bent rim), but could need to be tightened up. I'll examine it more today (or this weekend).

This suggestion has been mentioned before but it was overlooked or ignored . The bump per wheel revolution perfectly describes a poorly seated tire. From your description it is the right rear wheel. It will not show up as a side to side wobble but an up and down motion. Prop the wheel up so you can spin it freely. Look at the sidewall of the tire as you slowly spin the wheel. At one point the tire will dive into the rim. That is your bump. Most if not all tires have a molded line on the sidewall just above the edge of the rim. Watch that line for a uniform distance from the rim.

To reseat the tire try letting most of the air out and pushing the tire around with your hands. This might work but most likely will not. The real fix is to take the tire and tube off. Throughly dust the rim with talcum powder. Also dust the inside of the tire and the tube with talcum powder. Reinstall the tire and tube and slightly inflate. Spin the wheel and check for how the tire is seated in the rim. Push the tire around as necessary. Inflate the tire fully and check again.

Hope this helps, Brad
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the advice, Brad. I'll give it a try.

Also, folks, what kind of temperatures will make the battery perform better? Currently I have ridden it two times (at distance) but both times were in 45 degree (F). Is that considered cold for a battery?
 
That doesn't seem too cold to make a huge difference but I'll have to search for some kind of a chart. All I run is sla right now and they are pretty lame for ebike applications. I only get 10 miles max out of 7.5 ah batteries with quite a bit of pedaling,no hills and only 20 mph.
 
Well, for now the SLA pack is sufficient to get to work, including the hills. It was proven yesterday, and that was on less-than-ideally inflated tires. Today I pumped up the tires (but my pump started breaking...not sure why) and it rides fine. Ten miles sounds about right on the flats (as far as range is concerned). Like I said yesterday, after five miles of up and down riding, I could feel a significant loss of power, but it was by no means dead. These batteries will be fine for the project.

My next project will be, for sure, Lipo batteries, 48 volt. I was going to get a Worksman Bike, but I might just go with the current setup I have (for ease and for time purposes): A Trek Pure. It's a great bike and I already own it. It's light as a feather and would handle the hub motor well (steel forks).

But that's a good bit down the road when I save up personal money for a new system. I do know one thing for sure: I'll order from Ebikekit. That system was really easy to put in place.

NOTE ABOUT THE BUMP, BUMP, BUMP: I'm not exactly sure, but I think the problem is a slightly loose back right wheel. I can lightly shake it side to side (very lightly). It feels like it has about 2mm of play, maybe 1mm. But it's definitely not as tight as the left rear wheel.

And about tricycles: They are certainly designed for flat, even surfaces. They don't handle bumps very well or side slopes. It's a very unique ride, and I'd recommend it for senior citizens in places like Florida. The Trike requires no balancing skills and can be ridden much slower than a bike (including weaving in and out of relatively tight spaces at slow speeds). The hallway in our school building is only about nine feet wide and the trike can turn around it it. A bike would jackknife and fall. The trike has a zero turning radius. It can turn in its own footprint. Plus the trike can handle a load. I can ride with my 95 pound daughter on the back, no problem, and the stability isn't changed. It would make a great grocery hauler. If you live in Texas, Florida, etc., or anywhere that's really flat, a tricycle is a great way to go. If you want speed, however, a bike is better.

I'm really excited about this project (both the tricycle and bicycle). What a thrill. It will be fun to commute without a car, especially where I live, because I can get from home to work without mixing in any traffic. It's all paved paths to and from.
 
Bump, I have been searching since I last posted and all I have come up with so far is: Ah capacity is rated at 77 deg. F At freezing it is only 20 % less and at -22 deg. F it is down 50 % So it looks like the lower you go in temp. the faster it loses capacity. I would revise my "guesstimate" :mrgreen: that at 40 Deg. you may be down 15 % so that is considerable.

Yay I found it.
Batt_temperature1.gif


And this is where I found it. Lots of info.http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm
 
Lucky you to have those paths. My trike was great up near where I live, but downtown, in the narrower streets with more wierd stuff to get past, not so great.

Don't try moving over to a very sloped shoulder at 30 mph to dodge a jerk in a car. Side slopes are tricky on adult trikes, at 30 mph more than just tricky.

On my schwinn trikes, there is a free rear wheel, and a driving rear wheel that has a keyed axle. Either one might be improved with a washer allowing a better fit to the nut on the axle. If the drive wheel is loose, you can definitely tighten it up with any washer. On the other side, it may need a special size washer. Maybe somehow you are missing this washer?
 
Well, I did tighten the wheel yesterday, but it's raining solidly, so I doubt I'll get out on it today. Plus, I took apart and tossed the basic battery brace that the kids made and will build a more solid one this weekend, enclose some of the wiring, and build a seat.

Hopefully I'll get to at least take a spin around the block today (if the roads dry up) and see if tightening the wheel did the trick.
 
Good News: Tightening the outer nut on the right wheel did the trick. The factory guys must have rushed that side just a tad....no worries...all is well. It rides smoothly...much smoother than before.

I built a wooden seat/battery brace in the back that holds everything together really well. It adds another thirty pounds to the trike, but that's not a big deal, especially since it doubles as a storage bin (still working on that part). It's very strong and secure, and can even handle a second battery (which I'm planning to install as soon as possible to give it that extra torque and stamina. Next I'll prime it and paint it black (it's removable with four strong screws). Later I'll take off the simple seat top and put hinges on it so I can open the trunk, so-to-speak.

Lot's of fun.

In a little while I'm going to hook up with IceCube57 from this bulletin board and go for a spin, compare notes, etc.

What a great pursuit this is, and I thank everyone for the advice along the way. This forum is fantastic.
 
December 18:

I met up with a fellow Endless-Sphere member (Ice Cube 57) and had a great time. He tried the tricycle and I tried his motorcycle----er, electric bike. Man, that thing is fast and strong. I was easily hitting 25mph and didn't even come close to opening up the throttle. Wow.

Before going for a ride I showed him around town in my electric golfcart. It's a great town, and I think he took pics along the way. He liked Peachtree City.

After the golf cart ride we took a ride to one of the shopping areas and back on the electric vehicles. Then, while parked outside of Walmart we met a couple chaps who were interested in our bikes, so I let them try the tricycle. They thought it was strong, but they haven't seen nothin' yet if they thought that was strong.

Had a great time. Too bad it was freezing cold outside, otherwise we would have rode a lot longer.
 
Kewl film, guys! Trikes 4 ever!
otherDoc
 
Sunday, December 19, 2010:

Today I took my daughter on a long ride (I built a seat in the back--I'll post a pic).

This evening I took my daughter and her friend on a long ride looking at Christmas lights throughout the entire neighborhood.

Weight: Trike: 100 pounds
Me: 200 pounds
Daughter: 65 pounds
Her friend: 65 pounds
Wooden seat:30 pounds

Total weight: 460 pounds, and the trike and Ebikekit motor and powerplant handled it well.

Very cool.
 
Man, I am so jealous of your trail system. We have a good trail here, but it's got all these big bumps on it for water drainage. So riding my trail takes full suspension to go 15 mph on those bumps. Mine is just one trail crossing town, not a full network like yours. Once downtown, yer screwed on a trike.

But your trails, they seem to go everywhere, and are nice and wide. Sweet!

Thanks for posting the vid Icecube57!
 
If you only saw the whole trail system you will sheit yourself. When i say you can go everywhere. You can go everywhere!

http://www.peachtree-city.org/documents/Information%20Technology/GIS/2009webmap.PDF
 
icecube57 said:
If you only saw the whole trail system you will sheit yourself. When i say you can go everywhere. You can go everywhere!

http://www.peachtree-city.org/documents/Information%20Technology/GIS/2009webmap.PDF
Click to expand...


He's not kidding. The trails go everywhere. Using the cartpath system you can access:

Every single neighborhood (the city has about 40,000 people).

Both high schools

Two middle and six elementary schools

Every restaurant in town.

Churches, parks, and all commercial and industrial parks, plus WalMart, Target, Best Buy, Petco, Petsmart, Home Depot and more.

Plus, they are finally building a new movie theater, Sams Club and more that we're hoping will be linked to the system.

We actually use our four-seater golf cart more than our mini-van and car.

I'd love to show anyone around. It's so much fun that I still get a kick out of it everytime I go out. We've lived here five years.
 
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