The Trail Viper at work, but it needs to grow a pair

[craneplaneguy]

The concept of stashing the TV in the crane is working out great. Today it came in handy again, I was able to zip around town between jobs, leaving the crane parked. Zipping is not in the crane's vocabulary. Initial response from all who see the TV is overwhelmingly positive, no one has laughed in my face anyway, or asked why I was riding my kids bike. And, once they understood the E-bike part of it they were really stoked, the same with the folding aspect. I can get it out of the crane and ride off in less then a minute, so I am happy with the choice I made of the TV for the crane.

BUT....after riding the BBS02/Montague mid drive conversion, the TV is, as expected, kind of a dog in comparison. I see from this thread, what seems to be the European version of the TV, has a 48v/500w Bafang hub motor: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=182144 Using what appears to be the same rear wheel, spokes etc. Here's what I have:

I am not wanting a hot rod, but right now any grade at all, or a headwind, makes me lusting for a bit more power. I weigh 150 lbs BTW. I also won't be doing any single track or much if any off roading. Right now 20 MPH is it, max, being able to pull 25 with a little headwind or minor grade would be nice. Not to mention a little snappier acceleration. So, how much difference could I expect with a 48v500w hub motor versus what I have? And, is my current setup capable of being souped up a bit, with a new controller and battery pack, 52 v would be nice as my other two E-bikes are that. Or, should I just yank the current setup and spring for a new 52 v battery pack, a new controller, and a 48 v. Bafang hub motor?

 

[puregsr]

http://www.voltbike.ca/voltbike-mariner/voltbike-mariner-black.html

Wondering if this 48V 500w folding fat bike would be what you have in mind, wonder if its top speed is limited?

 

[Chalo]

You'd get the performance boost you want if your bike only had normal wheels and tires.

Fatbikes are the flavor of the month, but that doesn't keep them from being sloooow.

 

[dogman dan]

Run your current motor at 48v would be my approach. Not sure if you'd need a new controller. often a 36v setup can handle 48v.

 

[craneplaneguy]

The 20" wheels are key for it fitting in the crane, that and the folding handle bar stem. Jumping some curbs yesterday I got a sense of the compromise involved with those smaller wheels, a new seat will be forthcoming at some point! Especially as I still had very low air pressure in the tires and it was still a harsher ride then bigger tires, no surprise, I went through this with the airplane, that's why I have monster tires on it now. The fat tired Bullet I am building up now, is much too long, wide, and tall, enlarging the aluminum box is not an option, so the TV or something similar is what I need to work with. The quickness and ease of getting it out and in has worked out even better then I'd hoped, so I'm willing to deal with the compromises.


I have two 52 v. batteries, both 11.5 ah, one for the Montague and one for the new Sturgis Bullet build. Also a Luna charger with the adjustable charge rate..... so if I tried to run the TV on a higher voltage it will be, for better or for worse, 52 v. From what I have gathered, upping the hub motor voltage is a pretty safe bet, overheating it is what really kills them. But if I keep the same amperage the existing controller allows the higher voltage shouldn't result in more heat produced? It's up to me to not lug it down and let it overheat regardless. The other benefit of borrowing, one of the 52 v batteries I have on hand is I wouldn't need to buy another for a while, or ever maybe, I could just swap them out, like I do my Sirius radio from home to the crane, the plane, wherever. I did some measuring and it appears that both the batteries I have, one Samsung, one Panasonic, will fit in the existing space the TV provides for the battery. I am real tempted,(and when that happens, it means I'm going to do it ) to simply jury rig a test setup to the TV just to "what happens." Frying the controller will result in me getting the correct one for a new battery voltage, they seem to be pretty cheap, and the TV has a generous and easy to get at space for the existing one so not a lot of work involved. I'm a little intimidated by the number of wires but I assume I can figure that out. I may just get lucky and find the existing setup works with the higher voltage, leaving only the installation of the new battery and that'd be no sweat.

If the controller limits the speed to 20 mph, which I'm pretty sure it does,(?) that's another issue, I may end up with more acceleration but still the same speed, if so a new controller can fix that. I sure as hell don't know how to reprogram the one it has, resetting the wheel size used in the display to fool the controller may work I think, I'm out of my depth here.

That Voltbike..... what the hell, all the different variations of the TV have a 48v500w power system but mine! It goes to show what happens when a newbie jumps into something without doing adequate research beforehand. But I got so jacked up from my brief ride this fall on a Sonders, that when I googled "folding fat tired bike", after coming up with the keeping it in the crane scenario, I pulled the trigger, damn that PAYPAL! This was also before I knew about this site and the wealth of knowledge here. I'll report back on how the TV survives the increased voltage when I get the nerve and time to try it.

 

[puregsr]

I'm also looking for a folding bike and this type of folding fat bike caught my attention because of the generic battery configuration.

I wonder if this will drop right in to the frame:
http://www.conhismotor.com/ProductShow.asp?id=465

The only part I'm not sure about is the "fat bike" part since me and my wife ride mainly on pavement and I wonder how inefficient are those tires? I shudder at the thought of riding on 2" knobbies for even more than a few miles, I can't even imagine pedaling those 4" tires around without electric assist.

 

[craneplaneguy]

Appears to be identical.

 

[dogman dan]

Chances are, your controller does not limit the speed, more likely it's just the small wheel, the voltage, and the winding. But if the controller is set to limit speed, a new one bought cheap on ebay will fix that. What you can change is voltage, making the motor spin faster.

I did not realize your bike has 20" wheels, so that is limiting speed some too. If your motor is not a slow winding, you should see about 25 mph on 48v.

 

[craneplaneguy]

Yeah, those little tires spin pretty fast, torquey though! If I could bump the top speed up to 25 mph simply by using a 52 volt battery, I'd call it good, don't want to get too greedy or make it a major project. I have enough of them already. My motor kit, battery, and other misc. for the new Sturgis Bullet fatbike is coming in Monday, so I think I'll do the higher volt mod in the next day or so, to keep me occupied.


I had another crane job yesterday that made me glad I had the TV on board. The contractor I was working with on the huge industrial plant told me I had about 15 or 20 minutes before they were ready for the next pick, so to "chill." In crane lingo, this means the meter is running, but I get to take a break and get paid for it, cool, so I got the bike out and took it inside. This is one small area of one of the smaller spaces in the 30 million dollar CAT facility I've been working on. I kept the speed down (wouldn't need more power today I remember thinking) and tried to look all official like, rather then just some guy screwing around. I had my hard hat on course All was well until I went around one corner and there were the high up mucky mucks, the top brass, the suits, doing a walk through. We all looked at each other, and I, thinking quickly, said something about looking for contractor X, "I got the crane out front", and I rode off. No blowback on my inside riding so far, and it was pretty fun. Didn't need the fat tires on that smooth concrete, but outside it was a different story and I was glad to have them.

 

[craneplaneguy]

From a couple days ago, in the busiest part of town,our Miracle Mile, where Walmart and all the other big box stores are, with the attendant congested traffic. Running a few errands on the bike versus driving the crane, I had a little time to kill between jobs, was (who would have thought) a LOT more fun and convenient, easier to park too!

On the higher voltage thing: when I was on a off grid power system for 28 years, I had several shop tools that I ran off of a higher voltage. Mostly high quality military surplus permanent magnet motors built for 24 vdc. My off grid system was an oddball 36 vdc, oddball then but as it's main power generator was a 1930's era Jacob wind turbine and it was 36 vdc, that's the way it was. My table saw and air compressor were powered by these 24v motors and they worked great on 36 with zero issues. I've also ran 12 v. stuff on 24, and again no issues other then faster rpms. I might run into town today and get the TV and convert it , inquiring minds want to know, mine anyway.

 

[craneplaneguy]

I'm also looking for a folding bike and this type of folding fat bike caught my attention because of the generic battery configuration.

I wonder if this will drop right in to the frame:
http://www.conhismotor.com/ProductShow.asp?id=465

The only part I'm not sure about is the "fat bike" part since me and my wife ride mainly on pavement and I wonder how inefficient are those tires? I shudder at the thought of riding on 2" knobbies for even more than a few miles, I can't even imagine pedaling those 4" tires around without electric assist.

Good point, I was seduced by those fatties, they look so cool! But then again, I do find myself on some rough terrain fairly regularly, not to mention snow and ice. So for me they are probably worth the extra drag and weight. They seem to ride OK on pavement, to my surprise they are not monster truck tire noisy anyway. If I had to do it all over again, I'd seriously consider for the crane a BBS02 mid drive 20" folder, one with skinny tires MAYBE, that thing would be seriously overpowered! I do like however having both hub drives and mid drives on my different bikes, a good way to get familiar with the + and -'s of either.

 

[craneplaneguy]

Here's my 52 volt test rig for the TV, I didn't pedal it just rode it around my shop, but that didn't tell me much. At least everything worked! It was too cold and windy plus new snow outside. Then I realized all I had to do was lift the rear tire while giving it full throttle, in the nice warm shop, and see what the display said. On initial throttle up, the display showed 28/29 mph for just a second or two, then it dropped to 20 mph, with the motor sort of surging. This sure sounds to me like the controller is keeping it at 20 mph, I can fool it for an instant but then it wakes up and does what seems to be it's job: limiting the top speed to 20 mph Screw that.

Here's the controller, I like the layout of all the components on the TV, everything is real easy to get to and also well protected. It will be very easy to rig a protected enclosure for a new battery in the space where the 36 volt occupied, room to spare. I understand why its labeled a 36 volt, but the 26" wheel? Obviously, my next move is get another controller, one without the speed limit function, or programmed not to care. 48 volt, though I'll run it off one of my 52 volt battery packs. Using the same nominal amperage,9, (I guess that means what it wants to run at most of the time) I'd then have a power system of 468 watts as opposed to the stock setup of 324 watts, I think that's how it works anyway. The motor shouldn't have heating issues with the same amps, though of course it'd be nice to bump it up to 10 or 12/520 watts or 624 watts. My next move is to find a retailer, one not in China, who can help me get the right controller. I'm open to suggestions but first will try Luna, who has supplied me with other gear in a timely fashion and at a good price.

 

[craneplaneguy]

After several recommendations I emailed Edward Lyen and have what I'm told will be the perfect controller on it's way to me. Cool.

lyen.com