The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Tech-Tips Thread

[zombiess]

So the official is now 13KV, looks like I'll be needing to swap out lower voltage higher amp controllers, but makes me glad I'm sticking with my 21.5" diameter tires.

These guys are running these same motors in their Greyborg's with 24" wheels and they seem to be doing fine based off what's been said so far. As soon as I get mine I'll start posting up as much data as possible, but 13kv puts it almost in between a Crystalite 5303 and 5302, but with much more torque and efficiency. I'm guesstimating a .08 ohm winding resistance for my simulations so it looks like if you want to run 24S you need a controller than can do 100V@100A.

With this new data and a quick remodel I'm getting 65mph @ 100V with a 94.6A current draw in a 21.5" diameter tire (Pirelli ML75s). Up a 10% grade speed drops to 59.2 mph and current draw goes to 124A, Guess someone just needs to get it on an running to get some real numbers. If the inductance is high then the amps should come down and be much easier on a controller.

I thought I saw Markobetti say he ran one on a 100V100A FET controller and got some crazy speed out of it as well. Do you mind providing us any details on what you saw current draw wise and what wheel size you ran?

I'll be running mine with the Lyen 24 FET 4115 MOSFET controller with 17 inch moped wheels and Michelin Gazelle tires (total diameter of about 23 inches). What do you think of this combo? Is it safe for the controller? Lyen says this controller is rated for 7000 watts. Thanks for any opinions.

Tough to tell, when I get my motor installed this week I'll have real actual data to give people since I think I'll be the first with one running. I'll reconfigure my setup and start out at lower voltages such as 12S, 18S first to collect data.

 

[MadRhino]

Mine will run at 100v, and will see well over 10Kw in the mountain, laced in a 24in rim with 3.00 fat tire that makes about 26in total diameter. It will be 6 years since I rode a 24" rim in the mountain trails, and that is the maximum compromise I'm willing to do for this motor. I hope that 10" travel rear suspension will attenuate the excessive bucking, and help me forget the smaller wheel.

 

[zombiess]

Mine will run at 100v, and will see well over 10Kw in the mountain, laced in a 24in rim with 3.00 fat tire that makes about 26in total diameter. It will be 6 years since I rode a 24" rim in the mountain trails, and that is the maximum compromise I'm willing to do for this motor. I hope that 10" travel rear suspension will attenuate the excessive bucking, and help me forget the smaller wheel.

If you are running a big tire on a 24" rim giving it an 26" diameter, then it's no different than running a 26" wheel. Overall diameter is all that matters, you are not making any compromises at all, in fact you rim will most likely be stronger than a normal 26" rim would.

Just called the bike shop that has my motor. They won't have the wheel finished until late Friday or Saturday. I don't think I've ever had a bicycle shop in this town able to build me a wheel in less than 5 days because they always claim they are too busy. So it's taking almost two weeks for me to get my motor laced into a nice strong double wall 20" BMX wheel... sigh. They had to special order the wheel because nothing is ever in stock, ever. No electronic part I need, no car part I need, no bicycle part I need. Seems like no matter what it is I'm trying to do I confuse the normal staff and am often told what I want to do just can't be done (even though I've often already done it or seen it done). The delay on my wheel build is because they won't have the wheel delivered to them until Thursday and they had a some trouble re-drilling the hub for the spokes, but got that taken care of.

Guess I'm not going to be the first to test out the motor

 

[fractal]

Mine will run at 100v, and will see well over 10Kw in the mountain, laced in a 24in rim with 3.00 fat tire that makes about 26in total diameter. It will be 6 years since I rode a 24" rim in the mountain trails, and that is the maximum compromise I'm willing to do for this motor. I hope that 10" travel rear suspension will attenuate the excessive bucking, and help me forget the smaller wheel.

If you are running a big tire on a 24" rim giving it an 26" diameter, then it's no different than running a 26" wheel. Overall diameter is all that matters, you are not making any compromises at all, in fact you rim will most likely be stronger than a normal 26" rim would.

Just called the bike shop that has my motor. They won't have the wheel finished until late Friday or Saturday. I don't think I've ever had a bicycle shop in this town able to build me a wheel in less than 5 days because they always claim they are too busy. So it's taking almost two weeks for me to get my motor laced into a nice strong double wall 20" BMX wheel... sigh. They had to special order the wheel because nothing is ever in stock, ever. No electronic part I need, no car part I need, no bicycle part I need. Seems like no matter what it is I'm trying to do I confuse the normal staff and am often told what I want to do just can't be done (even though I've often already done it or seen it done). The delay on my wheel build is because they won't have the wheel delivered to them until Thursday and they had a some trouble re-drilling the hub for the spokes, but got that taken care of.

Guess I'm not going to be the first to test out the motor

I've had my share of bad experiences with the LBS, they have no idea of what we are doing and most of the time, we know more than they do. Some guy trued my wheel once and he laughed as he said that it was the heaviest wheel in the world :lol: DUH! Some other guy said that the only people who should buy them are the elderly or the handicapped, and he said that he found it insulting to see «ordinary» people riding e-bikes because they were lazy. What an IDIOT

 

[MadRhino]

Mine will run at 100v, and will see well over 10Kw in the mountain, laced in a 24in rim with 3.00 fat tire that makes about 26in total diameter. It will be 6 years since I rode a 24" rim in the mountain trails, and that is the maximum compromise I'm willing to do for this motor. I hope that 10" travel rear suspension will attenuate the excessive bucking, and help me forget the smaller wheel.

If you are running a big tire on a 24" rim giving it an 26" diameter, then it's no different than running a 26" wheel. Overall diameter is all that matters, you are not making any compromises at all, in fact you rim will most likely be stronger than a normal 26" rim would.

It is a compromise because I'm riding 2.70 X 26 Nevegals now, and they are over 27" total diameter. Then, the rim size makes a big difference when you hit square, a 24" bucks much harder than a 26" once the tire is compressed. The wheel build will be stronger laterally, I agree, but I sure hope those 3.00" tires keep being readily available because I don't expect them to last very long.

You guys are gonna ride this motor long before me, for I just ordered one and there will be snow all over my mountain very soon. Other than short test rides on the street, this build is not expected to fly before next spring.

 

[oatnet]

You guys are gonna ride this motor long before me, for I just ordered one and there will be snow all over my mountain very soon. Other than short test rides on the street, this build is not expected to fly before next spring.

I thought snow meant the fun was just beginning... Who was the E:S member who took out their front wheel, cut a ski in half, connected the halves with a door hinge, and jammed it into their forks, making an awesome snow ride? :lol:

-JD

 

[Doctorbass]

You guys are gonna ride this motor long before me, for I just ordered one and there will be snow all over my mountain very soon. Other than short test rides on the street, this build is not expected to fly before next spring.

I thought snow meant the fun was just beginning... Who was the E:S member who took out their front wheel, cut a ski in half, connected the halves with a door hinge, and jammed it into their forks, making an awesome snow ride? :lol:

-JD

I'm thinking about converting temporarely my E-KMX into a great E-snowmovile! with a track instead of the rear wheel! and two ski on the front!!

 

[MadRhino]

You guys are gonna ride this motor long before me, for I just ordered one and there will be snow all over my mountain very soon. Other than short test rides on the street, this build is not expected to fly before next spring.

I thought snow meant the fun was just beginning... Who was the E:S member who took out their front wheel, cut a ski in half, connected the halves with a door hinge, and jammed it into their forks, making an awesome snow ride? :lol:

-JD

Well, I'm not that crazy. This front ski thing works only on hard compressed snow, and my trails are wild in the winter with 3+ feet of lose snow. I ride the streets in the winter, and if it's chilly sometimes, I can safely feed much more power to my motors at -20.

 

[MadRhino]

I'm thinking about converting temporarely my E-KMX into a great E-snowmovile!

Is that a Ski-Doo that you ride in town Stephane?

 

[oatnet]

I'm thinking about converting temporarely my E-KMX into a great E-snowmovile! with a track instead of the rear wheel! and two ski

Great idea!

Knoxie's 'Snow KMX' (3 wheels, no skis) YouTube is what alerted me to ebikes in 2007. I was much surprised to meet him here later!

-JD

 

[Doctorbass]

I'm thinking about converting temporarely my E-KMX into a great E-snowmovile!

Is that a Ski-Doo that you ride in town Stephane?

Ah ha... I know Quebec is like a small village of 700 000 peoples.. but you and me are just 250km distance... We are not in the north pole :wink:

Doc

 

[MadRhino]

Ah ha... I know Quebec is like a small village of 700 000 peoples.. but you and me are just 250km distance... We are not in the north pole :wink:

Doc

I'm not worried for you, I know that you have enough batteries to ride here if Quebec gets too cold.

Anyway, with the climatic change, it looks like Texas will have snow and we may start growing oranges in our backyard.

 

[neptronix]

Dear markobetti, HAL, Accountant, and other interested folks..

I strongly recommend you get your business together and go up against Crystalyte. I think it is time to take their position as the market leader in high performance motors. You have shown that you can design a hub motor and get it into production. Please consider taking your business to the next level.

I think people on the forums are tired of Crystalyte's design issues, business practices, and poor relations with vendors

A golden opportunity awaits you, don't let it pass you by!

 

[gensem]

They know and they will take the crown David.

 

[wojtek]

i would consider:

http://www.smprowheels.co.uk/rims/wheels-rim-plat-19.html

rim width either 1.85 or 2.15inch

Tyres: http://www.smprowheels.co.uk/pirelli-city-demon.html

how do you guys know what spoke lenght to take? anyone laced already using 8G spokes? I talked to SM Pro but they don't seem to use / know G as a measure for spokes ...

 

[gensem]

newsonsportec can make 8g stainless steel spokes in any color and length, not sure about the quality and MOQ is 720 pieces
John Holmes has 12g quality sapim spokes available.

 

[johnrobholmes]

Newson has china quality. Good for hard to find stuff, but nothing out of the ordinary.


Laced up and shipped out one yesterday, and like a dummy I didn't take a pic.

 

[markobetti]

Dear markobetti, HAL, Accountant, and other interested folks..

I strongly recommend you get your business together and go up against Crystalyte. I think it is time to take their position as the market leader in high performance motors. You have shown that you can design a hub motor and get it into production. Please consider taking your business to the next level.

I think people on the forums are tired of Crystalyte's design issues, business practices, and poor relations with vendors

A golden opportunity awaits you, don't let it pass you by!

Thanks , we will try our best to satasfy everybody's expectations

 

[John in CR]

A motor test report would be nice.

 

[oatnet]

A motor test report would be nice.

This was posted a few pages back, revealing the CroMotor is actually 12.98kv, is that what you are looking for? Or were you looking for a ride report from one of us?

-JD

 

[MadRhino]

i would consider:

http://www.smprowheels.co.uk/rims/wheels-rim-plat-19.html

rim width either 1.85 or 2.15inch

Tyres: http://www.smprowheels.co.uk/pirelli-city-demon.html

how do you guys know what spoke lenght to take? anyone laced already using 8G spokes? I talked to SM Pro but they don't seem to use / know G as a measure for spokes ...

You show a 19" rim, and a tire that is not made in that size.

If you want 19", I would consider a Morad trial rim instead of an MX model. They make one especially for the Gas Gas Pro trial.

Size of 8 Ga spoke is 4.00mm or .156"

 

[zombiess]

Has anyone who received one of these ridden it yet? I should have mine back from the shop tomorrow finally. Then it's hall/phase combination finding time. Luckily I own a dual trace battery powered scope so I should be able to cheat a little and figure it out by looking at my 9C working.

 

[John in CR]

A motor test report would be nice.

This was posted a few pages back, revealing the CroMotor is actually 12.98kv, is that what you are looking for? Or were you looking for a ride report from one of us?

-JD

Perfect, thanks JD. I just wasn't paying 100% attention. No, I was looking for peak efficiency, and the 86% is in line with the motors I have but with a 40mm stator, so that means solid build quality and no efficiency robbing shortcuts to get the weight down. I just take for granted just how much the drum brake and extra axle must weigh on mine.

The Kv of 13 vs the 16 on mine hopefully means more inductance on this motor, making it easier to drive, but not by much. I still think a 20" is going to blow a 24 or 26" wheel out of the water, but of course that's true of any hubmotor...just the nature of the beast that most still don't get. ie gear down and volt up for much greater performance with any hubbie.

You guys are going to be big time happy with this motor. The end of the Xlyte fanboy club will be icing on the cake. The Croatia guys just need get that price in line pretty quick though, because there's nothing unique about the individual parts, just an ebike length axle and covers on a 1500W - 2000W rated scooter hubbie with spoked wheels. I'm sure that will happen with volume where they can save on shipping, since their other stuff comes with great pricing for great product. If you're listening guys, thicken up those dropouts and make them clamping type, which has shown to be the only shortcoming.

John

 

[gensem]

After alot of mishappens, my motor is being laced to a 17" 2.15 moto rim with 2.75 tires...
How can I calc the final wheel size?

 

[zombiess]

The Kv of 13 vs the 16 on mine hopefully means more inductance on this motor, making it easier to drive, but not by much. I still think a 20" is going to blow a 24 or 26" wheel out of the water, but of course that's true of any hubmotor...just the nature of the beast that most still don't get. ie gear down and volt up for much greater performance with any hubbie.

You guys are going to be big time happy with this motor. The end of the Xlyte fanboy club will be icing on the cake. The Croatia guys just need get that price in line pretty quick though, because there's nothing unique about the individual parts, just an ebike length axle and covers on a 1500W - 2000W rated scooter hubbie with spoked wheels.
John

I get the 20" diameter bicycle wheel and it's what my bike was designed around, small motorcycle like acceleration Not to mention easier on controllers and better efficiency and on motors like this, sometimes higher top speed.

After alot of mishappens, my motor is being laced to a 17" 2.15 moto rim with 2.75 tires...
How can I calc the final wheel size?

I think that's going to put you around 22-22.5" total diameter. My 20" BMX (16" moped size) is coming out to 21-21.5 diameter so you should still be in the small wheel club. I would really like to get this motor into something like a 14" wheel so with tire the outer diameter was no more than 20", that would be perfect for on road really high speed use.