HK12K said:
Yeah, it seems that even if the wheels were large enough the judge would have ruled against him purely because he stated that he never used the pedals and had no intention of ever doing so. Had the wheels been larger and he had kept his yap shut, or at the very least said that he uses the pedals as a form of propulsion, he might have skated. Tires aside the judge based his ruling largely on perception and intent, not just on the bike itself.
It does set a bad precedent, especially coming from the appeals court. That's the end of the line for the defendant as far as I know. He appealed and lost. Game over for him. The judge did seem to leave the door open for future defendants to argue that they did in fact use the pedals, at least in some capacity, and if their vehicles are otherwise compliant they should have a chance at getting off. Or so it seems to me anyway.
The wheels issue is a done deal though. It's literally the first stipulation so if your bike can't meet that standard you are officially screwed if you get charged, especially now. Also, and I didn't look into it too deeply, but the law seems to constantly reference wheels, not tires. If some future judge happens to realize there is a difference between those two words, adding sidewall might not be enough to save you.
The fact that Motorino and these other companies are selling these bikes locally isn't an issue. You can buy crap electric dirt bikes from Sinclairs, or a gas powered dirt bike from a motorcycle shop, or a quad or atv or electric skateboard or roller skates. They're legal to buy and own, you just can't use them on public property. If you have acreage or want to tool around your backyard you can, but as soon as you leave the property you're breaking the law. (Skating is a crime as it turns out, despite what the stickers told us.)
On the other hand, all of these retailers and manufacturers are claiming that these bikes are legal MAC's, no license reg or insurance required. That's an issue that they can be held accountable for, especially if they have a local retail presence. If someone owns one and now finds the bikes were intentionally misrepresented it's possible to sue the seller to force them to accept a return, but it may or may not be at diminished value. You may even be able to go after them for damages if you suffered harm from their misrepresentation, like getting charged and fined. If you bought used you're probably on your own though.
Best bet would possibility be to clean it up and unload it while you still can, preferably to an out of of towner who won't have to deal with any repercussions caused by riding it past the transit swine. If you sell to a local it's only right that you disclose what you know and let them decide if the risk is worth it or not.
I think federal court is the only option now. Hopefully the rider is willing to fight. I don't agree with this ruling at all....one based more on opinion than a hard and factual presentation of the law.
This shouldn't mean that these types of bikes are now illegal, right? I feel like things are not done until the laws have actually been rewritten. Especially since I feel the judge's reasoning don't even follow the MVA in the first place.
It does not say that pedaling must be the primary mode of propulsion anywhere. I hate how those multifaceted "or" statements in the MVA are being interpreted as "AND" statements, where they feel that ALL statements mentioned must be true to be valid. THEY DO NOT.
Even if the judge is convinced that the bike doesn't qualify as a MAC, the insurance related aspects should have been thrown out...as they had been in all similar cases before. I don't think you can legally be charged with not having insurance on something that could never be insured, which was the ruling in all previous cases.
I'm aware that you can mostly buy anything here and the onus is on the buyer to use it legally...but I wonder if these dealers can just claim these are MAC's? Did they actually have to get them legally passed as MAC's first, perhaps through transport Canada? If this is the case, having proof of certification should make things a done deal.
I'm personally holding onto my bike until the very last appeal is denied and the laws are CLEARLY rewritten to deem my vehicle illegal
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HK12K said:
Fwiw I've been out of the house for less than 30 min and so far have seen 2 xmr looking bikes and one of those electric ruckus clones riding through Guilford and Fleetwood.
I wonder how many of them have heard this ruling though. I've decided to still use mine, but only for necessary trips. And I've saved a copy of ICBC's classifications, and the specs of my model...if I do get pulled over, hopefully it's by someone who can see reason
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Balmorhea said:
John in CR said:
Ebikers should stop allowing prejudiced pedalists to craft their laws...
It's not prejudiced to call a motorcycle a motorcycle, and hold it to motorcycle standards and obligations. There's no reason an electric motorcyclist should be off the hook for what ever other motorcyclist has to do.
If a vehicle is going to enjoy bicycle privileges, it had better share the qualities of a bicycle in terms of average speed, maneuverability, and kinetic energy. Most e-bike legal definitions used to do that, until California Class 3 and its many derivative laws.
Yes, but this is too underpowered to be classed with actual motorcycles. It has the same specs as those ebikes that actually look like bicycles...in all the ways that matter legally...though of course these models have a ton of extra bells and whistles.
People are basing things on appearance more than anything else. I'll bet the original rider would have never been pulled over if he looked like he was riding a standard bike. Plus, standard, non-electric bikes can go faster than these things!
john61ct said:
I dunno.
I imagine better to have more flexible legislation,
By default start out permissive, give the industry and user associations incentives to be creative to encourage safety and social responsibility.
But give local authorities the ability to crack down if casualities start mounting as ebikes get more widely used, especially fatalities.
Some towns and counties may become very ebike friendly, while those with too many idjits can't have the nice things anymore
One of the saddest parts to me is, this rider hadn't even been behaving badly.
I might want to stop doing that now, if I keep going straight and theres traffic I usually open it up to about 60km/h and go with the traffic til 104, might want to stop doing that too. and then slow down again(no bike lanes there) or ill jump behind on whalley blvd? on my way to the portmann bridge
