Thoughts? Ebike ticketed/conviction upheld (Canada)

Completely self serving, as I said. Keep siding with the killjoy and that's exactly what you're sure to end up with.

Far more people than you might realize want literally any form of transportation past walking to require license, registration and insurance to operate in public, powered or not. Which side are you on?

Don't ask the lawmakers to fix things, they'll just make more fun-killing laws. People selecting viable clean alternative forms of transportation aren't the problem, it's the busy bodies who can't live their own lives without feeling like it's their duty to ruin what the other guy enjoys.
 
john61ct said:
Why shouldn't bikers on the road be required to have insurance?

Obviously if it became a significant percentage of commuters that day will come.

Is there no public tax / fee collection in Holland for example?
Because I don't want to end up spending $500 per month per household member someday to pedal a bike, just because someone decided that we needed to change a system which has worked just fine for a couple of hundred years.

Now voluntary insurance I am 100% all for, but they'd better cover theft too.
 
id pay $200/yr $1million liability if I could legally do 50km/h on an ebike on the road/bike lanes, kind of like atvs and snowmobiles. leave the 32km/h ebikes free.
 
Hell I'd be cool with that too, as an option anyway. I'm just not one to request that the government apply further pressure to the boot that they already have on my throat. Some people just can't leave well enough alone though and keep asking for more, as long as it only screws-over the other guy.
 
goatman said:
id pay $200/yr $1million liability if I could legally do 50km/h on an ebike on the road/bike lanes, kind of like atvs and snowmobiles. leave the 32km/h ebikes free.

I am sure the insurance company will take your $200/yr, for 1m liability. Then when it comes time to use that policy, being a rare policy they'd just deny you. Its common for insurers to do that for common policies, medical, house, travel, mortgage insurance.

I did read the ICBC, British Columbia's government insurance, did say to the one ebike guy that they have no policy for him, ICBC looked at the ebike guy like WTF LOL. But everywhere else, Peace Hills insurance, I bet you give them $200/yr they'd have a policy for ya. You will still be SOL when the pigs pull ya over, doing 50, riding on a highway, riding a motorcycle looking "ebike".
 
Insurance company will give you a policy, its probably not going to be $200/year for the speeds you require to be covered under.
Higher the speeds the higher the risk of severity.
 
markz said:
Insurance company will give you a policy, its probably not going to be $200/year for the speeds you require to be covered under.
Higher the speeds the higher the risk of severity.

Not in BC they won't. ICBC anyway. They're the only ones who count as far as basic liability is concerned here, according to the system. You can buy all of the private supplemental insurance you want but as far as the Motor Vehicle Act is concerned you have to buy your initial liability from ICBC, and they refuse to offer us any coverage because as a bicycle or MAC we don't require it. Would be nice to have the option though.
 
john61ct said:
Why shouldn't bikers on the road be required to have insurance?

Because they don't impose significant risks on others with their choice of transportation. Peds probably cause more injuries and property damage than cyclists do.

Motorists, however, are a known menace and blight to human society everywhere.
 
Bicycles are bicycles, clear in the statutes.
electric BICYCLES

Start going to a 5000W motor, where its 750W? limit and there COULD be a problem if you smoke a "ped"estrian and stick around like you should. A roadie killed an elderly man on pedal power alone in Calgary not long ago.
https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/family-outraged-after-cyclist-fined-1000-for-running-red-light-killing-calgary-senior/
 
$1,000 fine handed cyclist Paul Joseph MacNeil Monday, coupled with a victim fine surcharge of $150

Of note
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/supreme-court-victims-surcharge-1.4946018
Justices deem compulsory victim surcharges 'cruel and unusual punishment'
 
We need a true hero like Governor Daniel Hastings.

https://jalopnik.com/this-governor-vetoed-americas-most-insane-automotive-la-1837183057
 
Balmorhea said:
john61ct said:
Why shouldn't bikers on the road be required to have insurance?

Because they don't impose significant risks on others with their choice of transportation. Peds probably cause more injuries and property damage than cyclists do.

Motorists, however, are a known menace and blight to human society everywhere.
john61ct said:
Aren't "riders of motorcycles" included in "motorists"?

Yes. Have you never been around one?

03-cmmotorcycletc-0521-rk_4.jpg
 
So the line between ebikes and motorcycles does need to be drawn **somewhere** with objective criteria easily enforced by LEO with not a clue.

Ideally I agree based on rationality and evidence rather than appearances.

This whole "we can fly under the radar" will disappear as soon as the phenomenon has grown, percentage wise to even a small fraction compared to in Asia.
 
Interesting, first google click, Ontario. The first one caught my eye.
The rest, like the pig will get out a tape measure, look inside the motor for statorade, know that the phase wires are stock or not, that the alum fins was put on by the ebiker or chinese manufacturer. Dyno the hub to see what exactly, going back to the no way to measure wattage dilemma Justin at Grintech wrote about, and I linked to previous posts.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/driver/electric-bicycles-faq.shtml
- All electrical terminals must be completely covered.
- Two independent braking systems consistent with requirements for motorcycles and motor-assisted bicycles (mopeds) that applies force to each wheel and is capable of bringing the e-bike, while being operated at a speed of 30 km/h, to a full stop within 9 metres from the point at which the brakes were applied.
- The minimum wheel width is 35mm.
- The minimum wheel diameter is 350mm.
- No modifications to the motor to allow it to exceed a power output greater than 500W and a speed greater than 32 km/h.
 
Oh, heres another one from link last post.

-The battery and motor must be securely fastened to the vehicle to prevent them from moving while the e-bike is operating.

What about a loose and flimsy controller
What about a rear motor on the rear of a full suspension bicycle, it will MOVE, up and down so not "secure".

Wording all about wording, lawyers job to Interpret and fight. So buy that MotoX motorcycle / "ebike" and wonder why get pinched and have to hire a lawyer.

When all ya need is Sunders neat plain ole sweat powered bicycle, is it electric, is it not, how many watts, is it modified, is he not pedaling up a hill. Go to jail do not pass go as the clang of steel bars closes behind you. Johnny Cochrane are you there? You got OJ off!
 

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This has certainly gotta be under the radar as it gets no

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-ebike/calgary/city-coco-fat-tire-electric-scooters-brand-new-zero-km/1496065048
City Coco Fat Tire Electric Scooter

Maybe the ticketed BC fella shoulda purchased this thing instead of the crotch rocket "ebike"
Maybe BC fella would been about to slide no

Clipboard02.jpg
 
It would be nice if that were an option to ride, but no pedals so wholly illegal here. Bass Ackwards
 
HK12K said:
It would be nice if that were an option to ride, but no pedals so wholly illegal here. Bass Ackwards

Even if that scooter thing ebike whatever you want to call it, had pedals, and and a 1000W motor instead of a 2kw, or to be legal 601W :lol: J/K Seriously whats the "legal limit" anyways in Canada? 500W or 750W? Who knows, who cares!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Even if it was given to me for free
Everything was painted black
With a free brand spanking new 100Ah Lithium Ion battery given to me for free

I would keep the battery, replace it with some generic time bomb battery off ebay and sell it all to some sucker who can deal with the fuzz. I am not interested tyvm.

For that matter, I wouldnt even fuckingg use that thing at my cabin by the lake, even though I've literally never seen no pigs there, except one time, long weekend, checkstop about 10 km down the road. Gosh, 10 yrs ago now.


---------------
 
Not my taste either, but different strokes for different folks. I bet it would still be fun to tool around on. Could replace your car with 100ah too. 8)
 
Out of all this time, there have only been a handful of such news stories come to our attention. It makes me wonder what the real numbers are for people getting hassled and harrassed for their ebikes in Canada and the US. Are the ebikers drawing attention to themselves, in this threads case, that is 100% the case.

Similar case motorcycle/moped that are "ebikes" case
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/cyclists-getting-ticketed-for-no-insurance-blame-confusing-e-bike-legislation-1.5278601
A guy was using a moped as an ebike, not a good idea even if its legal why bother. People seeing a motorcycle on a sidewalk or in a park grabs unwelcomed attention fast.

I know there is another case out of BC, but there is not much that pops up on search for any cases (Spent 15 minutes looking).
The case I am thinking about, is not related to ebikes, but rather a motorized bicycle 80cc. The fuzz saw him abnormally fast and not pedaling on his bicycle with motorzied ki. I think it was on a highway but cant be sure, how fast question remains. The rider got pinched, but how bad, need the news clip. So that pig might have been on the hunt to get quota filled for the day, but dunno the exact circumstances as it relates to speed, goofing off, not pedaling or riding somewhere not good like a highway.

https://www.vancouversun.com/Vancouver+Island+wins+court+battle+over+motorized+bicycle+tickets/6296114/story.html
OK found a dead link, but the snippet gave name, Shawn Gordon Ryan, motorized Schwinn bicycle for an evening ride near Courtenay last summer, he believed he was in full compliance with the law,

Looks like the gasser forums picked up on it.
https://motorbicycling.com/threads/canada-legal-or-illegal.21425/page-3
Judge orders tickets tossed out for motorized bicycle


By Kim Bolan, -Vancouver Sun March 16, 2012



When Shawn Gordon Ryan took his motorized Schwinn bicycle for an evening ride near Courtenay last summer, he believed he was in full compliance with the law.

But Ryan was stopped by an RCMP officer in Royston and ticketed for driving a motor vehicle without a licence and without any insurance.

The problem? Ryan's pedal bike had a gas motor instead of the electric "motor assisted cycles" exempted under the Motor Vehicle Act.

Provincial Court Judicial Justice Hunter Gordon ruled Tuesday the tickets given to Ryan should be tossed because he had mistakenly believed the bike was the type permitted under B.C. road rules. And he had taken steps to check out what those rules are.

"From the evidence in the case I find that Mr. Ryan has established due diligence. He asked those who reasonably might be expected to know, including police officers, if he was operating a motor assisted cycle. They advised him it was a motor assisted cycle," Gordon said.

"To be fair, others who also would be knowledgeable had advised him it was not. This is a grey area of law and even in the administration of the provisions, it is not surprising that he received conflicting advice. Both he and his mother had researched the matter fairly extensively. They mistakenly put too much reliance on what might be acceptable federally under its standards than what is required under provincial law. I find Mr. Ryan made reasonable efforts to learn what this vehicle was or was not. He was mistaken and that mistake led him to believe he was a bicyclist and not a motorcyclist."

Gordon noted that Ryan, then 45, was riding "on a bucolic section of highway 19A in Royston, south of Courtenay. At this time of day on July 19 it was still daylight."

RCMP Staff Sgt. Andrew Isles was driving northbound on the same highway in an unmarked police car about 7: 30 p.m.

"He spotted what he described as a gentleman, about his age (Mr. Ryan was then 45), pedalling a motor assisted bicycle southbound along the shoulder of the highway at a 'higher rate of speed than someone who was pedalling a bicycle' and he did not 'see any leg movements, indicating that the person was not pedalling their bike,'" Gordon said in his ruling. "When he stopped the gentleman, Staff Sgt. Isles could see that the bicycle was a Schwinn Mountain Series bicycle that had a gas motor conversion added to it."

At a hearing in Courtenay last December, Ryan told Gordon about the bike modification - that "he had added to the stock Schwinn 21 gear pedal bicycle a 49 cc gas motor that he had bought over the Internet."

"From pictures of the bicycle entered in evidence, in addition to the drive chain to the rear hub from the sprockets on the shaft of the pedal on the right side of the bicycle, there is a chain drive from a small gas motor attached to the inside of the frame to the rear wheel hub on the left side of the bicycle," Gordon said.

Ryan testified that his bike can't go more than 32 kilometres an hour even with the motor assisting.

Gordon said even though the bike was actually a motor vehicle under the Motor Vehicle Act, "it is the kind of vehicle that could not be insured, even if Mr. Ryan had wanted to. He did inquire and was advised that it could not be insured."

© Copyright (c.) Postmedia News

edit - I edited the highlighted area in the quote, but wanted to add, I bet the fuzz knew it was a motorized bicycle when he first saw it, the motor sticks out quite a bit from the sides. Since when do the cops take pictures at a traffic stop, unless the defendant added it, but then that photo could have been "adjusted" or edited and would not be admissable in court. Who knows. I doubt the cop took pictures on the side of the highway, unless the pig knew it was a grey area, and his case was very light at best, so starting snapping pictures on the side of the highway, again who knows.

Things to learn
Go electric, hide the rear hub behind pannier bags like Sunders ebike.
Pedal, if its fake/ghost pedaling or installing pedal assist, or actually pedaling with no pas and just a throttle.
Dont go too fast
Dont ride on a highway


Royston British Columbia
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Royston,+BC/@49.6452669,-124.949827,2898m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x54886b3cf540308f:0xd861d03a182c63c1!8m2!3d49.6458193!4d-124.9464183
 
Another update. Now the police have actually issued a warning to the dealer :( :

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-e-bikes-police-1.5581852?fbclid=IwAR2pGvZOzMuQyv-GEsewAm5b7XXfymZZzHCTYZ41cnRpqnh0gcjT_nml6EE

Has anyone in BC been pulled over since this ruling? I haven't...hope it stays that way.
 
They gotta bring up the disabilities angle. Part of the reason they say capable instead of must is/was to allow the disabled to use them. Thus the intention has always been for them to be self propelled.
 
Party is over due to one bad judge, and now the cops are going to make sure of it.

Yet another reason to move the hell out of BC.
 
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