Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery

Apparently they are heavy. But the charge times are amazing and I remember hearing they have really long cycle lifes. I don't think they will catch on.
 
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=27750
theyre were tested, and found to be awesome.
too bad they wont sell them to the general public
 
I see, Atomic weight of titanium is 4.5g.cm3 and carbon 2.2g.cm3. so if they find a way of putting half as much Ti as C then it would balance. the article states that the weight of the lab one is one third better than the toshiba one: The O.R.N.L. compound also has a higher capacity compared with commercial lithium titanate material- 256 milli-ampere hour per gram versus 165 milli-ampere hour per gram.

but that probably just puts it equal with current ons. i want to do 161k in one day!
 
http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/20..._develops_10minute_electric_car_charger_.html

Nissan, in conjunction with Japan's Kansai Nniversity, says it has created the necessary technology to charge the batteries needed by vehicles such as the Nissan Leaf and Mitsubishi iMiEV in a record time of ten minutes.
Click to expand...

The breakthrough reportedly came by changing the electrode inside a capacitor from carbon to tungsten oxide and vanadium oxide to improve power, reports Asean Automotive News.
Click to expand...

alg_electric_car_charger.jpg
 
They need to commercialize a battery that can take the 10 minute charge but still have 1000s of charge cycles.
 
They should be more concerned with how they plan on getting the juice out of the wall.

I would want an EV to get 200-400 mile range, so recharge times are NOT the issue here. Reasonable charge power limits the charge times. If you have a large pack, you can throw 50kW into it and be under 1C charge, which most stuff can handle just dandy. The issue is getting 50kW out of the wall, continuously, at every houehold. Then what if 5 people showed up at one house around the same time, and ALL plugged an EV in? Thats a lot of juice.

Currently, its just not really realistic to have this kind of charge power. It MIGHT be semi-usefull for a rapid-charge station, but it will probably still decrease cycle life over slower charging. For EV's to be widely accepted, having a 'lifetime' battery is key. I'd imagine charging in 10 minutes would decrease the cycle life of the pack noticeably. What the hell kind of a connector would you need to run a few hundred kW into? It needs to be easy and safe to connect. Fully recharging a 50kW pack in 10 minutes means over 300kW, which happens to be a LOT of power.
 
mvly said:
They need to commercialize a battery that can take the 10 minute charge but still have 1000s of charge cycles.
Click to expand...


That all ready exists in quite a few batteries available now. Including most all the Lithium Titanate cells, the high power A123 18650 cells (the KERS cell), and LG has some options as well.
 
liveforphysics said:
mvly said:
They need to commercialize a battery that can take the 10 minute charge but still have 1000s of charge cycles.
Click to expand...


That all ready exists in quite a few batteries available now. Including most all the Lithium Titanate cells, the high power A123 18650 cells (the KERS cell), and LG has some options as well.
Click to expand...

What we need is an ES network to be the ones snapping up crashed ecars for their batts for cheap until good batts become available for us to buy for a reasonable price (below $.50/wh) thru gray channels.
 
ZOMGVTEK said:
They should be more concerned with how they plan on getting the juice out of the wall.

I would want an EV to get 200-400 mile range, so recharge times are NOT the issue here. Reasonable charge power limits the charge times. If you have a large pack, you can throw 50kW into it and be under 1C charge, which most stuff can handle just dandy. The issue is getting 50kW out of the wall, continuously, at every houehold. Then what if 5 people showed up at one house around the same time, and ALL plugged an EV in? Thats a lot of juice.

Currently, its just not really realistic to have this kind of charge power. It MIGHT be semi-usefull for a rapid-charge station, but it will probably still decrease cycle life over slower charging. For EV's to be widely accepted, having a 'lifetime' battery is key. I'd imagine charging in 10 minutes would decrease the cycle life of the pack noticeably. What the hell kind of a connector would you need to run a few hundred kW into? It needs to be easy and safe to connect. Fully recharging a 50kW pack in 10 minutes means over 300kW, which happens to be a LOT of power.
Click to expand...

Not everyone wants a 200-400 mile range EV for at least 2 reasons: Cost and weight. I'm fine with 100 mile range, but I still want to be able to use my vehicle on medium-long trip every now and then. Without the option of fast charge, I have to have a 2nd ICE car.

That said, I don't need a 10 min charge, I can tolerate 30 mins. But anything longer than that is a hassle.
 
Its quite possible some people who are "almost" ready to consider an EV (lives close to work, has two vehicles) are annoyed by the thought of long charge times...even though most real EV owners charge when they sleep/work with no issues. If we can get a lot of these type of people to actually buy and drive one, they might realize and advertise that they don't really use the fast-charge as often as they thought they would...

I see web-articles like this often,....usually vaporware, but...since it was from Nissan and an official press release, I thought it was worth tossing it into the ES meat-grinder for amusement and vetting (if its full of carbon-nanotube-crapitanium, you guys will research and shred it pretty fast)
 
spinningmagnets said:
Its quite possible some people who are "almost" ready to consider an EV (lives close to work, has two vehicles) are annoyed by the thought of long charge times...even though most real EV owners charge when they sleep/work with no issues. If we can get a lot of these type of people to actually buy and drive one, they might realize and advertise that they don't really use the fast-charge as often as they thought they would...
Click to expand...
I'm one of those "almost" ready. But I am not at all annoyed by overnight charging at home, which will be 95% of the time. I'm very annoyed with the other 5% because without the Fast Charge option, my EV becomes a local only mode of transportation. I visit my children at their college twice a month. The round trip is 200 to 300 miles (depending on which one I visit) and I want to finish the trip in 1 day.
 
John in CR said:
What we need is an ES network to be the ones snapping up crashed ecars for their batts for cheap until good batts become available for us to buy for a reasonable price (below $.50/wh) thru gray channels.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what i think when i read about these cars.

Imagine how many ebike builds can be done from an electric car's battery. 24kwh would make for 24-48 ebike batteries.
That would be a sick group buy.. :D

I'd sure pay a premium over lipo for some nice >= 200whr/kg NMC myself.
 
I'm curious how changing the electrodes in the capacitors will make the batteries charge faster. :?

spinningmagnets said:
The breakthrough reportedly came by changing the electrode inside a capacitor from carbon to tungsten oxide and vanadium oxide to improve power, reports Asean Automotive News.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Well Sam, ever considerd just renting a car for that single trip from time to time? Chances are, you do it on the weekend? When rates may be cheap? It could be cheaper than owning a second car, or 300 mile range ev.
 
Renting's definitely an option. Yes I visit them on weekends. But I avoid rentals whenever I could. I'm always uncomfortable when I have to adjust myself to a new/different driving position. And by the time I'm comfortable, the ride is almost over.
 
Yeah, AW...its like a game of "telephone"...the engineer explains the "new advance" to the companies press agent, that guy "thinks" he understands, and he writes a press release (he has a communications associates degree from a community college)...the press release has to be condensed down to a sound-bite for the web-zine, so...the web-zine writer re-writes it to the proper blurb-length and he "fixes" it now that he "understands" it.

Calling it a capacitor has to be wrong, but I thought LFP or bigmoose could translate what probably has to be the truth.
 
Hi,

I think they developed a new fast Charger:
The breakthrough reportedly came by changing the electrode inside a capacitor from carbon to tungsten oxide and vanadium oxide to improve power, reports Asean Automotive News.

Batteries charged using the updated system were complete in ten minutes, with no significant effect on storage capacity or voltage, the reports said.

Although it could take a decade to commercialize the technology, such a significant breakthrough could dramatically boost public perception of electric cars.

Last year, Pike Research warned that automakers could soon face pushback from consumers on the length of time it takes to recharge a vehicle, after some major names opted not to include charging hardware which could halve the time from eight hours to four hours.

"Some consumers are likely to feel they have overpaid for their charging equipment or were shortchanged with their vehicle," the firm said.

Last month, Nissan launched a new fast charger in Japan costing less than Y1 million ($13,015), half the price of its previous charging unit.

The new model is nearly half the size in volume than previous incarnations and can charge electric vehicles from multiple automakers, Nissan said.
Click to expand...
 
Ah ! yes that makes a lot more sense. :idea:
I was just contemplating how a recharge point could be made to supply the high power required for such a fast recharge,...
.... high voltage 3ph supply, large storage batterys, electro/kinetic flywheels, etc etc...
So maybe Nissan have optimised some form of supercap storage into their charger unit.??
At $13k + i would expect something special :lol:

but that current transfer through the charge connection is still scary !
 
FWIW, I just saw an announcement that guys at the Northwestern University in Chicago have come up with a battery that promises 10 times as much charge with the same efficiency - link. Instead of flooding the rest of this page with links, here is the generic link from today's Google News.

I have no idea as to what those chemicals mean, but I'm sure someone here is fairly educated in this area. Hope you all find it helpful.

--Thanks, Will.
 
We won't see it for another 10 years in my opinion.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15735478

Batteries for phones and laptops could soon recharge ten times faster and hold a charge ten times larger than current technology allows.

Scientists at Northwestern University in the US have changed the materials in lithium-ion batteries to boost their abilities.

One change involves poking millions of minuscule holes in the battery.

Batteries built using the novel technique could be in the shops within five years, estimate the scientists.

Fast movers
A mobile phone battery built using the Northwestern techniques would charge from flat in 15 minutes and last a week before needing a recharge.

The density and movement of lithium ions are key to the process.

Dr Harold Kung and his team at Northwestern said they have found a way to cram more of the ions in and to speed up their movement by altering the materials used to manufacture a battery.

The maximum charge has been boosted by replacing sheets of silicon with tiny clusters of the substance to increase the amount of lithium ions a battery can hold on to.

The recharging speed has been accelerated using a chemical oxidation process which drills small holes - just 20-40 nanometers wide - in the atom-thick sheets of graphene that batteries are made of.

This helps lithium ions move and find a place to be stored much faster.

The downside is that the recharging and power gains fall off sharply after a battery has been charged about 150 times.

"Even after 150 charges, which would be one year or more of operation, the battery is still five times more effective than lithium-ion batteries on the market today," said lead scientist Prof Harold Kung from the chemical and biological engineering department at Northwestern.

So far, the work done by the team has concentrated on making improvements to anodes - where the current flows into the batteries when they are providing power.

The group now plans to study the cathode - where the current flows out - to make further improvements.

A paper detailing the work of Prof Kung and his co-workers has been published in the journal Advanced Energy Materials.
 
Be thrilled if my cell phone batteries did 150 cycles. Had one phone that killed battery after battery. One day I took the voltmeter to it. Charged to 4.8v. No mystery it was killing batteries every six months, after about 50 cycles. You'd think they could build a charger with the right shut off voltage by now. :roll:

There is a lot of stuff in battery tech going on that is going to be great for small stuff, phones, laptops, tools. But affordability of scaling up to large EV's could be too expensive.

Wouldn't it be nice to just see a more reliable bms? Something with two channels, and a self diagnosing capability so if one channel is frying a fet, it switches to the other and lets you know to plug in a replacement for the bad side? Costly for a bike, but I mean for larger EV's like cars.
 
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