Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Rube said:
Hydro is a option for inertia storage, turn the tap to up output but environmental impact and limited water mean high temp batteries may make sense. I'm no expert so interested in the communities' thoughts.
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Pumped Hydro is the "go to" standard for power storage for most of the world currently and huge new capacity being installed and planned as we speak. It doesnt need huge water resources to be viable, some are practically closed circuit systems recycling water between dams/lakes etc, others ( Japan) use sea water sources on the coast.
http://reneweconomy.com.au/no-batteries-needed-pumped-hydro-for-energy-storage-79785/
Australia is in process of planning its 4th PH storage facility in QLD (the Kidson project) to supplement grid buffering and reduce dependency on Gas generator plants.
However, there is a huge cost advantage to that Silicon storage system, if their cost estimates are true ($700k for 10 MWh installation) is less than 1/4 the cost of a PH installation.
they just need to get that efficiency up. !
 
Hillhater said:
Rube said:
Hydro is a option for inertia storage, turn the tap to up output but environmental impact and limited water mean high temp batteries may make sense. I'm no expert so interested in the communities' thoughts.
Click to expand...
Pumped Hydro is the "go to" standard for power storage for most of the world currently and huge new capacity being installed and planned as we speak. It doesnt need huge water resources to be viable, some are practically closed circuit systems recycling water between dams/lakes etc, others ( Japan) use sea water sources on the coast.
http://reneweconomy.com.au/no-batteries-needed-pumped-hydro-for-energy-storage-79785/
Australia is in process of planning its 4th PH storage facility in QLD (the Kidson project) to supplement grid buffering and reduce dependency on Gas generator plants.
However, there is a huge cost advantage to that Silicon storage system, if their cost estimates are true ($700k for 10 MWh installation) is less than 1/4 the cost of a PH installation.
they just need to get that efficiency up. !
Click to expand...

Pumped hydro round-trip efficiency is pretty pitiful itself.
 
Hehe... Another "problem" maybe is to use dams to hold the water? Maybe ask folks in Oroville, CA how things are going there. :wink: When ya get politicians mixed in with "things" ya can end up with poor design and construction not properly maintained. :roll: Having said this, stored up water flowing down hill is maybe my fav form of "battery". :mrgreen:
 
liveforphysics said:
Pumped hydro round-trip efficiency is pretty pitiful itself.
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well i guess 70 - 85% ( depending on who you believe)..isnt ideal, .. but since there are not many other options yet if you need a few GWh of storage,.. then you have to take whats on offer.
...and if the initial power source is renewable..Solar, etc ...the efficiency loss is not such an issue compare to the alternatives.
 
John Goodenough played a part in the early success of Lithium-Ion becoming a viable battery chemistry. Now, he is working on a glass-based electrolyte to prevent dendrite formation, and the new battery will also be sodium-based instead of lithium (more available, cheaper) for a type of solid state battery (no liquid electrolyte). Hopefully:

Non-combustable
More energy-dense per volume
Faster charging ability
Higher discharge ability
Longer life, more cycles

http://engr.utexas.edu/news/8203-goodenough-batteries
 
I find it somewhat amusing that the glass electrolyte should be mentioned at about the same type as the polymer electrolyte...

Still this is quite encouraging as both technologies are about solving the same problem, but in a slightly different way. This makes either of them seem more promising, two sets of brains coming to a similar conclusion? A little competition and intellectual rivalry can be a good thing and with the two techs being similar, but critically different? Multiple application niches could be found with greater degrees of device specific optimisation.
 
Thx for the link SM, good read. Had to look up more of this Goodenough due to his age. Man I hope my head is just as intact as his when I am his age.

More of the same thing we saw a few weeks ago a page or two back, moving away from liquid electrolytes to solid ones. Avoiding dendrites will boost safety, and let us run batteries harder. With high C rate usage, quick charge and more capacity. Sodium we got in abundance compared to lithium and sodium is also more easily "harvested". I seldom get excited about batteries breakthrough, there are just too much white noise. Too many too loud. And everyone and his uncle is claiming they will change the industry. This Goodenough could be the real thing, or so I hope.

Goodenough seems to have some impressive CV, and despite his age closing in on 100 years he still got a more advanced brain then most of us. Seems he was the one taking Exxon scientist Whttinghams Lithium discovery and made it useful and more safe by adding cobolt oxide rather then titanium sulfate to the mix.

And the old man got balls big enough to set a goal to have the batteries to market and I quote "in his lifetime". That is something when you consider he is 94 years old. :)

Exciting times comrades. Suddenly we don't have to worry about charge time, discharge rate or draining battery too quickly. Cheap hi ah batteries with hi C rate for everyone 8)
 
Meanwhile I will start trawling for a slightly abused Caterham that I can convert to the ultimate electric track day car, or fun car for those rare warm & sunny days when one can only drive a true classic topless ride with all things mechanical. Caterham with a small & lightweight batterypack and 4wd would be so much fun. Come on Goodenough, get those cells to market pronto.
 
Water-powered battery was invented
http://www.knowyourleak.com/Water-powered-Battery-Was-Invented-545718.html

Water-powered battery was invented Scientists at Penn State University have succeeded in obtaining electrics using a battery design that contains water cells that contain different CO2 solutions they could obtain hundreds of times more energy than similar works. There is a thin membrane to prevent mixing between water cells with different CO2 The membrane allows the passage of ions while preventing the mixing of the two liquids.
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EDIT: Hehe... ES Bible "Search found 23 matches: +"Penn State"" :wink:
 
spinningmagnets said:
John Goodenough played a part in the early success of Lithium-Ion becoming a viable battery chemistry. Now, he is working on a glass-based electrolyte to prevent dendrite formation, and the new battery will also be sodium-based instead of lithium (more available, cheaper) for a type of solid state battery (no liquid electrolyte). Hopefully:

Non-combustable
More energy-dense per volume
Faster charging ability
Higher discharge ability
Longer life, more cycles

http://engr.utexas.edu/news/8203-goodenough-batteries
Click to expand...


... news just hit the PBS site:
Super-Safe Glass Battery Charges in Minutes, Not Hours:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/tech/super-safe-glass-battery-charges-in-minutes-not-hours/

8)
 
DVDRW said:
Realistic news:
Panasonic NCR20700B avaliable soon!
https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size/panasonic-ncr20700b-lithium-battery.html
Click to expand...

Slightly larger than 18650 cells, but good news nonetheless!!

:D
 
If Hyundai has figured out a manufacturing friendly and cost friendly solid electrolyte, then Tesla's first real competition may be forming in Korea.

Korea is the new Japan for mfg quality and capabilities. Any/every smart automotive OEM would purchase every new tesla variant and take every piece apart as an engineer training exercise.

The bay area engineering and RnD capacity is perhaps second to none. Tesla must always leverage this through continuous rapid innovation and product development (as they wisely have been). If Hyundai really has an automotive environment friendly solid electrolyte that checks all the boxes, Tesla needs to get its gigafactory re-tooled for making cells based on it.
 
Warren said:
https://qz.com/929794/has-lithium-battery-genius-john-goodenough-done-it-again-colleagues-are-skeptical/
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Glasses can most certainly transport metal ions.

Its also not a physics problem for >5x energy density, but a materials tech problem.

That said, he could be an old man full of beans, but I've seen nothing he suggested outside the realm of possibility IMHO.
 
liveforphysics,

"I've seen nothing he suggested outside the realm of possibility IMHO."

Great! I hope he's right. As much as I appreciate the lithium ion cells we have now, they are still crap for weight and volume, compared to the usable energy we get from blowing up gas in a bucket, attached to a crank. :)
 
Warren said:
liveforphysics,

"I've seen nothing he suggested outside the realm of possibility IMHO."

Great! I hope he's right. As much as I appreciate the lithium ion cells we have now, they are still crap for weight and volume, compared to the usable energy we get from blowing up gas in a bucket, attached to a crank. :)
Click to expand...

Just like death clock.com we need a clock that's for when battery energy density beats petroleum. Or a gauge, my guess is 10- 15 years for mass production and use.
 
joss said:
I wonder what the water quality will be like after repeated cycling?
Click to expand...

Not good I'd imagine but it's possible that once washed through most of the large particulates would just sink to the bottom of the mine shaft.
 
New way of stacking cells. Can it be like what happen when memory was possible to stack up high?
1000 km per charge? They claim their way of packing and stacking will reduce volume by 50% so there will be room to increase the cells by 50% on the same footprint as before. The end of spot welding? Even less inductance? Cheaper to produce and more range. :)

We've seen one more exotic new battery technology surface the past 10 years. They all promises a lot but fail to hit marked, or does not live up the hype. The simplicity of this really has the potential to turn the battery industry up side down. In record time. Several big players could turn to this way of manufacturing cells. Might even be possible to easily convert todays assembly line for cylindrical cells for this new way. No flimsy spot welds that might or maybe not break off by vibration or whatever. The new stack would make for faster battery pack building.

https://www.fraunhofer.de/en/press/research-news/2017/may/1000-km-range-thanks-to-a-new-battery-concept.html

https://www.embatt.de/technologie.html

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