Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

icherouveim said:
The secret is the graphene. They say it is going to change the future.
I am very happy with my new 10AH graphene cells from WESTART factory, I can charge them in mimutes with 30A without any problems.
in the future they are going to be much more powerful when the companies will be able to take the full advantage of the graphene.
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Nop graphene isn't the answer, even if they say graphene on the outside I doubt it's really used, big battery manufacturers use regular graphite for their cells, graphene is over-hyped carbon.
 
ecotech said:
icherouveim said:
The secret is the graphene. They say it is going to change the future.
I am very happy with my new 10AH graphene cells from WESTART factory, I can charge them in mimutes with 30A without any problems.
in the future they are going to be much more powerful when the companies will be able to take the full advantage of the graphene.
Click to expand...

Nop graphene isn't the answer, even if they say graphene on the outside I doubt it's really used, big battery manufacturers use regular graphite for their cells, graphene is over-hyped carbon.
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LMFAO. I have some graphite here and it doesn't even conduct as well as copper. Graphene is used the a lot of GOOD cells incl. Zero motorcycles.
 
Overhyped graphene: www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5dwdZCKBZM
[youtube]https://youtu.be/R5dwdZCKBZM[/youtube]
https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/09/mits-3d-graphene-is-ten-times-stronger-than-steel/

we may even have entire bikes made out of graphene composites one day.

graphene news is quite good:

https://www.google.fr/search?q=graphene&num=100&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwigpIyip7jRAhXBlxoKHfwqCxwQ_AUICSgC&biw=894&bih=567
 
Graphene is a remarkable material in so many ways.

Something odd though, in an anode it improves performance only up to something like 0.3% of the anode being graphene with the remainder being graphite and binders. If you increase the amount of graphene beyond that it decreases cell performance (at least in the test data I've seen).

Graphene has been used almost universally in EV cells for at least the last 4 years, but wasn't commonly talked about until it became more of a marketing hype term.
 
liveforphysics said:
Graphene is a remarkable material in so many ways.

Something odd though, in an anode it improves performance only up to something like 0.3% of the anode being graphene with the remainder being graphite and binders. If you increase the amount of graphene beyond that it decreases cell performance (at least in the test data I've seen).

Graphene has been used almost universally in EV cells for at least the last 4 years, but wasn't commonly talked about until it became more of a marketing hype term.
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Do you know the reason for the diminishing gains in the anode?
 
Wheazel said:
liveforphysics said:
Graphene is a remarkable material in so many ways.

Something odd though, in an anode it improves performance only up to something like 0.3% of the anode being graphene with the remainder being graphite and binders. If you increase the amount of graphene beyond that it decreases cell performance (at least in the test data I've seen).

Graphene has been used almost universally in EV cells for at least the last 4 years, but wasn't commonly talked about until it became more of a marketing hype term.
Click to expand...

Do you know the reason for the diminishing gains in the anode?
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Nope! But it's a similar trend with adding SWCNTs (single wall carbon nanotubes), they help in a tiny amount and hurt in a greater amount. I couldn't begin to explain why.
 
Company "Ionic Materials, Inc.":
http://ionicmaterials.com/

(They say:)
Ionic Materials is a technology company focused on developing materials for batteries. At the core of our value proposition is a new solid polymer that has all of the properties required to replace the liquid electrolytes used in currently-available batteries.
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battery-768x287.png


... and:
Ionic Materials’ polymer is a true platform technology that enables a wide range of next generation battery chemistries including lithium metal anodes, high voltage intercalation cathodes, sulfur conversion cathodes and a proprietary system that we refer to as our “High Wh/L” chemistry. All of these chemistries have potential to dramatically improve performance and safety, and reduce costs compared to conventional lithium ion systems.
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Spotted as being intro'ed on upcoming PBS series:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/exclu...ry-that-holds-2x-as-much-power-202145984.html
 
[youtube]pCDuM_apIg8[/youtube]
 
New Tesla Cells :
[youtube]ga4L1w66AbU[/youtube]
Clearly the journalist doesn't know his facts very well, especially not how to calculate the volume of a cell cylinder...

In truth the figures looks more like that IMHO :

Going from 18650 (18 x 65.0 mm) : around 3450 mAh for 16.540 mL volume (aka 16.54 cc) and 50g at 3.6V nominal.
To 21700 (21 x 70.0 mm) : around 4750 mAh for 24.245 mL volume and 75 g at 3.6V nominal.

9iobu.jpg

REF for this picture : http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?419832-Tesla-s-gigafactory-dropping-18650-s-and-going-with-20700-per-Elon-Musk
Uploaded here for archive pruposes... if URL for picture is ever deleted 9iobu.jpg


That's going from 208.6 mAh/mL to 186.0 mAh/mL @ 3.6 nominal volts : that's going from 751 to 670 Wh/L. So a slight decrease in Volumetric Energy Density.
That's going from 69.0 mAh/g to 63.3 mAh/g @ 3.6 nominal volts : that's going from 248.4 Wh/kg to 228.0 Wh/kg. So a slight decrease in Massic Energy Density.
So Telsa is choosing cells that have 10.8 % less energy density per volume units and 8.2% less energy density per mass units...

Why is Telsa doing this change if the cells packs less energy per volume and less energy per mass ?
 
It isn't just about energy density but about current delivery and discharge characteristics.

A lot of the 3400+ mAh batteries can only provide this capacity at 0.1C. And when compared at higher rates of discharge, you can often find that the 'high discharge optimised' ~2900mAh 18650s outperform, or are equivalent in apparent capacity, to their higher 'paper rating' capacity brothers.

Tesla will have designed their batteries for high current delivery and longevity under such circumstances, no doubt sacrificing some absolute capacity in doing so.

This new polymer electrolyte seems very appealing though.
 
This new polymer electrolyte seems very appealing though.
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Yes it does. They've already doubled the capacity with the first prototype. Going out on a stretch, but improving their design could, for all we know, lead to triple or quadruple the capacity. Or, imagine building a custom solid state battery with a 3D printer. One solid chunk shaped however you like.
 
Well I'd imagine that a heavily optimised polymer electrolyte battery would require a bit more than a 3D printer to get the most out of it, but that does present an interesting thought. Currently the liquid electrolyte is nasty stuff and presumably requires somewhat expensive production methods. Both in terms of safety and the actual machinery on the production line. Working with liquids isn't nice.

At the very least a polymer electrolyte should be far easier (and less costly) to deal with, both in terms of building the batteries and in safely shipping them, once made. I mean I know we talk about energy density being the most important factor, but cost is too.

If the batteries were inherently safe and cheap we could actually end up with a situation where we could potentially overcharge them, for greater capacity, then once the batteries are at reduced point in their life cycle, trade them out for something new and relegate the older batteries to grid storage.

Well that's just a thought.

If the batteries do genuinely have at least double the capacity, I can't see there being much need for that.

As to whether this change could yield batteries with 4x the capacity to what we see now... That's entirely possible. Although basic lithium tech is well understood, this polymer is in its infancy, as are the other benefits it allows, such as using lithium metal within the battery itself.

At the moment the polymer electrolyte is at the proof of concept stage. Once it's been successfully proven, big r&d departments can get their hands on it and really get to work on optimising it.
 
One happy side effect of that new polymer battery would be the freedom to ship batteries any way the buyer prefers. By air, sea or land.
Now more insane safety regulations regarding shipping for the fail safe polymer battery. The added capacity or discharge rate will be a nice bonus on top.
 
The demonstrated (lab prototypes) high cycle life and safe cell energy density record is something like 1150Wh/kg IIRC.

The physics permit >5,000Wh/kg if you had the right materials tech.

Supercaps that were built as atom scale perfect graphene plate supercaps can also be multiple kWh/kg, but it's not yet known how to make that level of precision structure.

Electrical energy storage is limited almost directly by a combination of material technology and manufacturing technology that scales efficiently.
 
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com...nergyStoragerssFeed+(Energy+Storage RSS+Feed)

http://www.pnas.org/content/114/5/834.full (Paywalled)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea

“So essentially, what you have is a battery made with some of the cheapest and most abundant materials you can find on Earth. And it actually has good performance,” said Dai. “Who would have thought you could take graphite, aluminum, urea, and actually make a battery that can cycle for a pretty long time?”
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All the way back from 17th. January, using Aluminum + urea (ie. mammal urin).
Tech is for gridstorage.
 
Silicon will blow lithium batteries out of water, says Adelaide firm:
http://www.afr.com/news/silicon-wil...t-of-water-says-adelaide-firm-20170207-gu7eg7

Starts:
An Adelaide company has developed a silicon storage device that it claims costs a tenth as much as a lithium ion battery to store the same energy and is eyeing a $10 million public float.

1414 Degrees had its origins in patented CSIRO research and has built a prototype molten silicon storage device which it is testing at its Tonsley Innovation Precinct site south of Adelaide.

Chairman Kevin Moriarty says 1414 Degrees' process can store 500 kilowatt hours of energy in a 70-centimetre cube of molten silicon – about 36 times as much energy as Tesla's 14KWh Powerwall 2 lithium ion home storage battery in about the same space.

Put another way, he says the company can build a 10MWh storage device for about $700,000. The 714 Tesla Powerwall 2s that would be needed to store the same amount of energy would cost $7 million before volume discounts.
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Does that mean it needs to be kept at 1414 deg? How much energy does that take?
 
To reach that temperature, or to keep it there?

To reach it is probably something similar to it's storage capacity plus conversion inefficiencies/insulation losses.

To keep it there would depend on whatever the insulation level is, so the better insulated the less energy needed to keep it there.
 
amberwolf said:
To reach that temperature, or to keep it there?

To reach it is probably something similar to it's storage capacity plus conversion inefficiencies/insulation losses.

To keep it there would depend on whatever the insulation level is, so the better insulated the less energy needed to keep it there.
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Yes was rhetorical its quite the idea and will take some energy (and safety considerations) to make it happen.
 
LockH said:
Silicon will blow lithium batteries out of water, says Adelaide firm:
http://www.afr.com/news/silicon-wil...t-of-water-says-adelaide-firm-20170207-gu7eg7
Click to expand...
Arlo1 said:
amberwolf said:
To reach that temperature, or to keep it there?

To reach it is probably something similar to it's storage capacity plus conversion inefficiencies/insulation losses.

To keep it there would depend on whatever the insulation level is, so the better insulated the less energy needed to keep it there.
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Yes was rhetorical its quite the idea and will take some energy (and safety considerations) to make it happen.
Click to expand...
Adelaide is a major AU city that tends to get a lot of days over 40degrees celsius during the summer, I think its helped cause them to become quite a pro-renewable energy state which they have been for a while now with up to %45 reliance on renewable energy.

The thing is Adelaide has been a lot in the local AU news lately because of high renewable energy reliance and a fair amount of electricity blackouts as well as having some of the most expensive electricity prices in the world according to Wikipedia, I don't think it's a coincidence that this new energy storage idea came out days after its recent most widely reported blackout in the media.

It's often said that the electricity grid is the most complex piece of infrastructure in the developed world. Adding into the grid renewable energy makes this most complex piece of infrastructure at least twice as complex to manage, this ABC 7:30 report touches on SAs recent blackouts but fails to connect the two issues together but its still worth checking out if you find this stuff interesting.
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2017/s4617366.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2017/s4633511.htm
Germany has increased at least 7 times its annual grid management costs over the last few years trying to manage the stability of its grid when merging in new windfarm sources etc.

There is a large coal power plant in Victoria that's getting shut down next month and South Australia/Adelaide buys a lot of power from Victoria, the state grid interconnect is always running at full capacity.
So there is a lot of tension and blame going around, its going to get interesting when the Victorian hazelwood power station does shut down next month.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazelwood_Power_Station
 
from their site....
...The prototype had its first run on September 30, producing better than expected results at such an early stage of testing using less than 50% silicon load. Peak electrical output from the Stirling engine and generator was 30.4kW during the first run on stored latent heat recovering 20kWh. The Electrical Recovery Device (ERD) efficiency was 31% while the Combined Heat and Power (CHP) efficiency was better than 80%.......
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so, the Electrical efficiency isnt too clever at the moment, but if you need heat as well then it could be useful.
....But i dont think Adelaide needs any more heat currently !
 
My theory is the design complements a heliostat in a solar thermal energy/ desalination plant in Port Augusta AU.
http://reneweconomy.com.au/world-first-solar-tower-powered-tomato-farm-opens-port-augusta-41643/

In a country/ state with limited high cost arable land, large solar potential and a distributed population; solar thermal energy and low cost batteries complement the transition from coal, and the uptake of existing wind and solar generation.

The big issues is inertia in the grid, non competitive coal power stations are valued because of inertia in the generators. The inertia is a load buffer to keep the supply frequency within range especially when 35 -40C (95-104) days are common in summer.

Hydro is a option for inertia storage, turn the tap to up output but environmental impact and limited water mean high temp batteries may make sense. I'm no expert so interested in the communities' thoughts.
 
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