Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Mentioned these earlier...
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=20982&p=305485#p305485

No reaction from ES then I expect `cause not too many here would be excited about the <3 C rate for continuous discharge. A lot would depend on price per Wh and availability of course... It looks like they're targeting OEM and we're not likely to see their products at hobby level.
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I saw the 17mOhm Ri and just closed the page. They are little little self-powered heaters if you tried to make anything with decent performance.
 
liveforphysics said:
I saw the 17mOhm Ri and just closed the page. They are little little self-powered heaters if you tried to make anything with decent performance.
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Tell that to Tesla. They're LiCoO2 cells are much higher Ri. It's not the only parameter to consider though...
 
physorg.com/news/2010-10-german-electric-car-distance.html
allcarselectric.com/blog/1050863_electric-car-drives-375-miles-at-55-mph-recharges-in-6-minutes

info so far about the battery:
Battery lithium-iron-polymer (260 Ah/380 V) cell voltage of 3.8 volts
Battery weight about 300 kg
Currently lifetime is at 2500 Charge cycles without any degradation. This is targeting 500,000 km service lifetime or 200 km/cycle. This is 310,686 miles and 124 miles/cycle.
No word on depth of discharge for the zero degradation.
6 minute charge is future/theoretical limits of the battery. The actual time is 4 hours; which is still very impressive.
Click to expand...

video up at youtube (German)
watch?v=XREUH8vvZQk
watch?v=csEJ66Zd-Z0

So the battery looks like a lead acid, without the weight..
View attachment ShowImage.jpg

A2_Electric_Record_Run_DBM_02.jpg

A2_Electric_Record_Run_DBM_03.jpg
Schematics found on the DBM website showing the placement of the battery and motor in the converted A2 as well as how much lighter the KOLIBRI battery is compared to lithium ion and lead acid batteries of the same capacity.
Click to expand...
So.. who would switch out a group of cells in the main pack to add a chunky 7.6V 260 Ah booster pack ??

I would!
 
a little more information

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/10/27/converted-audi-a2-claims-new-electric-vehicle-distance-record-3/
 
So how is this really any different than the super expensive Altairnano Lithium titanate battery that has been around since 2005?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery
http://www.altairnano.com/profiles/investor/fullpage.asp?f=1&BzID=546&to=cp&Nav=0&LangID=1&s=0&ID=10702
 
If the quoted figures are correct – 100 kWh from a 300 kg battery pack – it means a two to threefold increase in energy density over anything else currently available. I would love this to be true, but...
 
Hi,

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/11/liu-20101126.html#more
Graphene-based supercapacitor offers energy density comparable to NiMH battery, but with rapid charge and discharge
26 November 2010

Researchers from Nanotek Instruments and Angstron Materials have developed a graphene-based supercapacitor that exhibits a specific energy density of 85.6 Wh/kg at room temperature and 136 Wh/kg at 80 °C (all based on the total electrode weight), measured at a current density of 1 A/g. These values are comparable to those of NiMH batteries, the researchers note, but the new supercapacitor offers the ability to be charged or discharged within seconds or minutes. A paper on their work was published online in the ACS journal Nano Letters.

These are the highest energy density values ever reported with carbon electrodes without the pseudocapacitance contributions from a conducting polymer or metal oxide, the authors said, further stating that “We believe that this is truly a breakthrough in energy technology.”

The group, led by Bor Jang of Nanotek Instruments, reported in 2006 that graphene can be used as a supercapacitor electrode material. Despite a number of efforts to improve the specific capacitance of graphene-based electrodes, however, results fell sort of the theoretical capacitance of 550 F/g due to the high tendency for graphene sheets to re-stack together.

The team determined that the best strategy to achieve a high capacitance in such graphene-based electrodes is to use curved graphene sheets rather than flat sheets to prevent the sheets from sticking to one another face-to-face. The curved morphology enables the formation of mesopores accessible to and wettable by environmentally benign ionic liquids capable of operating at a voltage >4 V.

With the total electrode weight of a supercapacitor system being typically one-fourth to one-half of the total system weight, the system-level specific energy of graphene-based supercapacitors can exceed 21.4-42.8 Wh/kg, which is comparable to that of a modern nickel metal hydride battery used in a hybrid vehicle. This breakthrough energy storage device is made possible by the high intrinsic capacitance and the exceptionally high specific surface area that can be readily accessed and wetted by an ionic liquid electrolyte capable of operating at a high voltage.
Click to expand...

6a00d8341c4fbe53ef01348988df9b970c-800wi
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Kinda miss-leading though with the weight being measured of just the electrodes.
Ultra caps guts are always lighter (at least for the smaller sized caps) than the can they are in.
It is fantastic to hear they are able to do 4v/cap though! Thats like a 40% energy increase alone.
 
Vorbeck Materials' patents appear to be unessential and ignore all prior art so the processes they license will very likely be under constant patent attack. Any one doing business with Vorbeck Materials should seek full patent indemnification and then be concerned whether Vorbeck Materials has the assets to withstand those indemnification obligations. Shaky proposition at best
 
bizintegrity said:
Vorbeck Materials' patents appear to be unessential and ignore all prior art so the processes they license will very likely be under constant patent attack. Any one doing business with Vorbeck Materials should seek full patent indemnification and then be concerned whether Vorbeck Materials has the assets to withstand those indemnification obligations. Shaky proposition at best
Click to expand...

Interesting first post, resurrecting an old thread and proceeding to cast aspersions about the content. Anyone might be forgiven for thinking you had an axe to grind on this topic.

Jeremy
 
Pretty sure it's a spammer; searching google for a quote of the spam post finds many places with the same phrasing:
http://www.google.com/search?q=Vorbeck+Materials%27+patents+appear+to+be+unessential
probably comment spammer. Likely they will come back later and add a signature spam link. When they do, I'll ban them and delete the post. ;)

bizintegrity said:
Vorbeck Materials' patents appear to be unessential and ignore all prior art so the processes they license will very likely be under constant patent attack. Any one doing business with Vorbeck Materials should seek full patent indemnification and then be concerned whether Vorbeck Materials has the assets to withstand those indemnification obligations. Shaky proposition at best
Click to expand...
 
>bump<

Not much chatter about Saft, are there any updates? Their site looks (really bad but) active, and it seems they have a dealer network... I've sent a query to the local distributor, waiting to hear back. Anybody working with these?

...did a post on my blog about it, maybe it will stir things up a bit:
http://evmc2.wordpress.com/2011/02/20/the-battery-geek-saft-batteries/
 
Saft is a large, older, company. Probably not looking for investors like the typical american battery company. More like government contracts or OEM.

Has anyone contacted them? They might do sample cells....
 
they are going to be making these cells a few miles from my house! One of my co-workers just took a job there too. :twisted:

I will be seeing if I can get a few cells out of it, but I doubt they want to work with the hobby crowd. :|
 
I contacted one Saft representative in Montana about their LiFePo 500Amps continous cells.

There is no rep in Canada as you can see on rep map of Saft USA-wide.
No answer, maybe because they saw my yahoo.com email address.
I will try my company emai address.
BTW Saft appear to be using Phostech powder in production.
MC
 
Well, like I said, I have an email in to them, I also have the local dealers' phone numbers. If I don't get an email back, they're gonna get a call from me... :roll:

As far as selling to hobbyists, their sales network seems to be fairly consumer-trade oriented. Take a look:
http://www.saftbatteries.com/Contacts/tabid/72/Language/en-US/Default.aspx?TYPECTL=CONTACTFAMILLE&REGION=223&PAYS=29&FAMILLEPR=6

Now maybe there's a minimum purchase, or you need trade credentials, but I'ma gonna find out! :D
 
That USA-wide reps network.
Those reps must be there out for some business, however those reps are not representing just SAFT , each of them represents also other businesses.
MC
 
WOAH.
~1700amp continuous discharge out of a 10ah cell?...
That's 170c, right?

Also, the cells are 0.60kg; that's 600g, yeah?
10ah Headways are 330g, so it sounds like these cells are quite heavy.

That's ~15lbs worth of cells for a 10ah 12s pack.

I'll stick with my lipo, thanks.
 
Wait, now i see the 44ah cells. -0.9kg each? only 1c though.. but 7c charge rating?
These batteries are freakin' weird.

Seems like neither of these would be really ideal. Who needs 44ah on their bike? where ya gonna fit that? lol..
 
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