tidalforce m-750 questions

D

dude1

1 µW
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
3
ive been wanting a ebike for a while and finally worked up the spare cash and time to seriously look around.
lately ive been hunting around for a montague frame because i like the idea of the convenience of a folder
well i stumbled across a tidalforce m-750(500w canadian :( ver ) with a dead hub battery for $750 and aprox $120-150 shipping
would this be a good deal?
what other options do i have for batteries where i can still have a it fold up?
also does anyone know if its possible to unrestrict it to get the pure 750W it should be instead of 500W?

thanks
 
I just noticed your thread,
where are you Dude?
I own TF Canadian restricted.
No wonder nobody answer your post so far. Tidal Force is the the best of the best in terms of durability and quality of build.
No wonder they are expensive even now years after production stopped.
My TF has almost 22 000km on the clock and itruns great.
 
Have you heard of the Tidalforce forum? Lots of good information there.

http://groups.google.com/group/tidalforce

That price seems high to me, however,if it's what you're looking for, then it might be right.

I have some instructions on using an auxiliary pack with Tidalforce bikes here.

http://ebikerider.blogspot.com/2012/03/how-to-use-external-battery-pack-with.html

Let us know what you decide.

Ambrose
 
Ambrosselio,
He posted here on this forum.
Why to redirect?
TF Google does not have even quarter of ES technical expertise posted, they are bunch of not technical people, rather social place with a lot of out of topic discussions, er .
I am not only engineer who left TF Google forum where I was rebuked by sick pople like Geo Rider who must have had bad day for posting too much on the topic.
You must admit it is not place for technical advice.
Your blog in contrast explain very well how to install jumper and run any TF on any 36V battery, you don't have all those pictures onTF Google.
 
I like the group and have learned a lot there. It is an older group so there is a lot of technical information. You may not think so.

The Tidalforce forum doesn't handle photos well at all. The old forum before the Google revamp had tons of photos, but they were flushed when Google switched to the new format. I hope they integrate it with Google+ in the future.

I'm a former electronics engineer and avid photographer and I appreciate sites with large clear photos so I post them on my blog.

I love Tidalforce bikes for their elegant engineering and military grade build quality. They are also bargain used Tidalforce bikes out there now since the NiMH hubs are dying, and replacements aren't easily available. All of my bikes are ones with dead hubs or NOS like my Tidalforce M-750 frame. I just installed my newly acquired X motor on my recently acquired S-750 bike. Can't wait to go for a ride!
 
miro13car said:
Ambrosselio,
He posted here on this forum.
Why to redirect?
TF Google does not have even quarter of ES technical expertise posted, they are bunch of not technical people, rather social place with a lot of out of topic discussions, er .
Click to expand...

I am a big proponent of keeping content on E:S. However, there is very little content about the TF drivetrain here, and the TF forum - which predates E:S - has a lot of relevant content on TF. Yes, they are not as technical as we get here, but the issues on a factory-built bike are not as technical as the issues on a bike one engineers oneself. If you want to do research on TF, the TF forum is the place to do it. Same for the Vectrix forum on visforvoltage.

Dude1, that is a bit high for a used dead TF, but the M-750 frame is in demand so that might be reasonable. Sometimes the battery is not the reason it doesn't run. Getting the batteries replaced by LEVT is an expensive, slow, painful process - I ended up abandoning a fully functioning set of wheels I sent them for an 'x' upgrade and battery replacement, because they kept on finding things 'wrong' that needed expensive replacements. However, you can run with your own external battery, you just have to keep pressing the "a" button every 10 minutes or it turns the bike off.

-JD
 
I engineered myself a lot of stuff on my Tidal Force.
Mechanical and electrical .
Factory built , does not matter you can still do projects on factory built ebike , improve namely.
I am hesistant to comment on TF Google forum again, but many original members are gone now like an enginner or famous Richard Papa
Just because it is TF forum doesn't mean I should post there about TF ebike, they don't have any monopoly on everthing TF, right?
I don't want to do any research on TF , no content on TF so I want to create content.
Oatnet ,
you posted not correct info here ,
you don't have to press every 10 minutes , that is without jumper in console,
with jumper TF works on any 36V no need to press anything "every 10 minutes".
 
miro13car said:
you posted not correct info here ,
you don't have to press every 10 minutes , that is without jumper in console
Click to expand...

Yeah, IIRC I removed the jumper after trying it, because it puts regen on all the time. I pushed the button instead.

-JD
 
I see
regen right on is a problem on TF run on not factory battery.
But unlikely Eplus bike TF break lever switches work different way
Only one lever of two activate regen breaking
Another one is only cut off switch no regen activation
 
Ambroseliao
Real treasure of TF is motor/controller integrated.
I don't care about dead hub battery when I haunt for used X TF
You are right there are used TF out there with few thousands or few hundred km on odometer waiting to be pick up for less than 1000 bucks
I agree there is nothing more durable ,long lasting , superb smooth than TF
Do we really need service company for TF - hardly
Same with Eplus hardly ever need any tech support
 
The major difference between TF and E+ is that using an auxiliary pack is extremely easy with the TF. Just put in a jumper in the console and the aux jack works! No complex circuitry needed. This is perhaps the greatest feature of the TF bikes! 8)

Are you going to use your A123 20AH prismatics with one of your TFs?
 
For now I am building A123 20Ah pack for my 1000W E+ bike on Biria frame.
Eplus NMH hub battery must go but it will not be easy task I can tell you.
Good news is that BMS software on Eplus is loaded on flash memory so stays there even if you disconnect NMH cells.

Of course I am very tempting to bulild pack for TF but only after derestricting my TF software for X .
I don't know if you remember mine is 500W 20mph restricted Canadian model. It is pity I carry hudge TF motor using 50% of its capability.
This motor has really light duty.
 
It does not make any sense that Tidalforce would program the BMS to lose it's program when it's disassembled. I doubt that it's true.

I've taken apart a couple of Tidalforce front hub batteries and they are not easy to disassemble. It's also got embedded temp sensors which look delicate. I wouldn't replace the NiMH cells. Too much work for low capacity cells.

The A123 20Ah cells look perfect for the Tidalforce battery. Powerful, light, safe,etc.

Let me know how your A123 cells work our for your E+ bike. How do you plan on using it? In parallel with the hub battery?
 
I wouldn't replace the NiMH cells.
Click to expand...

I can't even source the Saft cells at a reasonable price. I'd give it a go, but all I've found is in Nimh is crud that gives half it's rated ah and croaks after 50 cycles.
 
The Tidalforce controller is located in the motor so it's not practical to change it.
 
cassschr1 said:
Can the TF motors be ran on any controller? Or only the original?
Click to expand...

TF uses a different controller (IIRC 5-phase instead of 3-phase{Yellow/Green/Blue}). The 5-phase is what makes it silent, but it also makes it not compatible with regular controllers.

-JD
 
Ambroseliao,
I know for sure that LEVT "reprogram" as they say fronthub after replacing cells - they said so on more than one occasion on TF Google.
What they reprogram? I agree it would be like damn solution, there was EEPROM available long time ago to load programm on.
I am very eager to try X model after derestriction of my TF but I am not sure if LEVT is willing to do it for Canadian customer.
I run my TF on LifeBatt cells battery which is just fine for 500W Canadian TF, max current I am seeing is 21-22A and only momentary ,usually 18-19A CONTINOUS.
So it is very light duty for any LiFePo but A123 flat cell is much better than LifeBatt cell.
Why on Earth anybody would even try to use external controller on TF.
All treasure of TF is internal controller with Sinus PWM alogarythm ,7-phase silky smooth motor
 
This long weekend I am going to have first trial runs of my E+ on A123 12S pack.
I am very excited. On one end 30S high IR NMH cells to compare with super low IR A123 12S flat cells.
How E+ controller will react to such source?
How do I connect A123 to E+?
I will use E+ NMH to power BMS electronics and display only. I will connect A123 on motor side only.
So motor/ controller will be powered by A123.
Bottom line is that NMH BMS electronics must maintain communication with controller DSP chip. Otherwise error is generated /one of many/ and E+ powers down.
 
I would recommend you start a new thread with your E+ questions. You would probably get more responses that way. :D

I'm eager to hear of your experiences with the A123s with your E+!

Ambrose
 
miro13car said:
I know for sure that LEVT "reprogram" as they say fronthub after replacing cells - they said so on more than one occasion on TF Google.
What they reprogram? I agree it would be like damn solution, there was EEPROM available long time ago to load programm on.
Click to expand...

So basically, instead of knowing something, you took an irrellevant detail, took a HUGE cognitive leap, and stated it as fact. :roll:

Miro, you keep getting yourself into trouble - and some truly bizzare conclusions - by doing just that. I can't remember the last time you posted something that made me think we share the same reality or even the same rules of physics. You are corrupting the forum with disinformation like this, and I, for one, wish you would flat-out stop posting. Heck, I'm not even sure that E+ didn't go out of business as the result of your support. :lol: j/k

Here is reality:

Various TF components went though a number of firmware versions, fixing bugs and finding improvements. It would only make sense to UPDATE the existing firmware to the MOST CURRENT version, while they are upgrading the cells, because that would give the cells the best lifespan. Further, if the replacement cells have different characteristics from the original cells, they would want to update firmware to reflect that.

The 'X Upgrade' is also merely a firmware update, but they do need to put the 2nd fuse into the battery wheel.

How you managed to twist a simple, standard, typical firmware update, into the idea that replacing the cells erases the programming in a BMS, is simply beyond me.

-JD
 
miro13car said:
with all due respect.
All I wrote here is that LEVT reprogramms BMS electronics after replacing cells.
It is a fact and I stated it as a fact. ...
What exactely"bizzare conclusions " you are talking about?
Click to expand...

This one: "Not so on TF where you loose BMS software when you disconnect 30in series cells."

miro13car said:
BTW TF motor is 7-phase not 5-phase .
Click to expand...
I'd believe that.
 
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