too much advertising

[rebelpilot]

Has this forum started getting more commercial?
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=31217
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=31261
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24593&start=870
seems to me there are sales promotions in the non sale sections more often now

 

[TylerDurden]

These are guys who contribute freely 100x more than they post adverts.

What they make on sales from these posts wouldn't cover 1% what they have spent in time/money to share their efforts here.

 

[MadRhino]

I think that you had not visited a website with flashing banners and a dozen Flash adds on each side. Too much advertizing is when you are distracted from the content, or slow loading because of heavy animated adds. The guy on the forum reporting about his latest build, describing it in a thread, is not that kind of heavy advertisement. Let's call it news, and pick some ideas for our future build.

 

[johnrobholmes]

This forum has always been this way. Don't like it? Complain to the people with green or red names.

Good luck convincing a moderator/ vendor to move his threads to the for sale forum, it was hard enough for me to get them unstickied when I was a mod :lol:




I always pushed for two threads to be created. One with all the tech and one in the for sale section with all the pricing. One for discussion of the product and one for discussion of the sales. That way there is never a question of whether the person has "given enough" to have sale threads in tech areas.

 

[rebelpilot]

So is it ok to advertise in any thread, or only if you are a moderator, or have a certain number of posts? I think a moderator should not be selling period, this is a conflict of interest, and moderators should enforce a no selling in the technical and genaral discussion threads policy.

 

[johnrobholmes]

The forum at large doesn't seem to mind when the person is a good contributor, no matter what the status of the persons membership.

 

[Thud]

its ok to plug your stuff in your own threads.....start spamming the general discusions & suffer the wrath.

very fine line. but I don't have any issue for those thinly disguised sales threads in the tech sections....allways good content added with the discusion they generate.

Now, let me tell you about the next big thing you can buy for m ME!!!.....LOL

 

[johnrobholmes]

very fine line. but I don't have any issue for those thinly disguised sales threads in the tech sections....allways good content added but the discusion they generate.

This is where I think the truth falls. The people posting the thinly disguised sales threads always have good content and plenty of tech in them too. Maybe I should have put my spokes thread in tech :lol:

 

[TylerDurden]

A bit of flexibility and resonability are warranted. Taking a point to the logical extreme is simply trolling.


Review their many contributions to the benefit of this community and it will be apparent that posting items for sale are the most minor of indiscretions.

 

[grindz145]

Those guys are not box shufflers, there HUGE contributors. I have no problem with those post in the least. In fact, I'm super psyched about both sale threads. I actually didn't see the recumbence group buy thread before you posted it, but If I could some up with some kind of cash for them...

I agree there's a thin line, but we're nowhere near that with these guys. It's fantastic how anti-commercial this forum is.

 

[Ypedal]

I agree, on all counts, i tried my best to outline that in the market stickies, if a member is a real " member " who posts here on a regular basis, it generally goes thru without too much fuss, as it has always been so far, those " vendors " who post here for no other reason are the one's who get grilled....

Having a productive discussion about a product in the works is a good thing imo..

Having a -For Sale thread and a seperate discussion thread often results in 2 threads discussing the same thing in the end and doubling of efforts, messy.. might be best to just have it all in one lol..

 

[dogman dan]

I can't agree more about those particular people contribuiting a lot. Everybody here contributes in thier own way, to their own ability.

I see it go the other way too, where sale threads ought to have the tech discussion moved to another area. Why? because many don't see the discussion when it occurs in the for sale section. Ideally, you have a for sale product thread, and you have a review from a customer thread added later for a long tech discussion.

I couldn't tell you where the line should be drawn. My personal FAQ is often who to buy a kit from. It would sure be a pain to have answer that every time in a pm to avoid "selling" in the ebike general section. Unfortunately I do get biased on my advice, since I tend to say, such and such worked for me. But I don't get free stuff to review from most of the vendors. If I have the cash, and the need for something, then I buy it and review it. But it's still not a representative sample of the whole market. I definitely have ended up with lots of 9 c motors, some free, some I just got because I like em.

Once in a while though, you will see a vendor get a bit windy about his latest product, nudge nudge wink wink. And I have seen the mods take a stand on that. This being ES, any exaggerations get the dope slap. So wherever a vendor posts, he better speak the truth. 8)

 

[MadRhino]

... So wherever a vendor posts, he better speak the truth. 8)

That is the difference here, between publicity and information from a seller.
Publicity is only sales pitch, and that doesn't work very well here, as we saw in some earlier threads where the seller had been flamed.

 

[John in CR]

I think 2 of the examples linked cross the line. I see nothing wrong with giving contributors leeway in discussing their stuff, but there is a proper place in the forum for sale notifications and prices.

I'd like to see a much broader selection, because this place has become primarily a fan club of 2 of the poorest quality controlled offerings, one of which has been exorbitantly priced by the manufacturer for years. Just look at how many got burned recently as early adopters. It's great that some guys are handling bulk orders and selling at crazy thin markups as their contribution to the cause, but I think the community would be better served by first putting a pool together to buy one of a bunch of different manufacturers' motors for testing. Then bulk buy the best motors.

 

[MadRhino]

@ John
Sure, we accepted the poor quality of manufacturers, and work more on upgrading their stuff, than searching for better. As a group, we can also convince a manufacturer to make better... yet we are small fish for them.

Then, I have no doubt that your scooter motors are better made than a Clyte, but they require as much mod if not more, only different mods.

 

[dogman dan]

I see no problem with a vendor that has a new product discussing it outside of the for sale section including, horrors, the price.

I'm talking something new, such as something a vendor manufacured or invented, or even an item not previously avaliable such as when the H series clytes appeared. New stuff should be thoroughly examined and discussed. Once it's in the hands of customers, it tends to get discussed there. We shouldn't all have to check every for sale thread daily to know what's new.

Repeated posts about a product line a vendor has had for awhile would cross the line. We don't need discussion anymore about a 9c 2807 just because we have a new vendor of them for example. But when a design change of that motor happens, then it's time to look at it. How else do we know the change happened if the vendor doesn't tell us?

Bottom line, a particular members posts bother you, block him and you won't see them.

 

[ebent]

I like the idea of vendors in a quality way updating their offerings and technical information. Fortunatly I'm not concerned about the vendors. Because we have an excellent group of monitors that take a reasonable approach. I think it is more important to monitor the monitors. As long as we have the right people in those chairs there is nothing to worry about. Spliting hairs about what is allowed and not allowed is not productive. As long as things remain tasteful and appropriate we are good. If we see a lot of the wrong stuff, then we need to question the monitors. My guess is that is a bridge we won't have to cross.

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

impressive how its gone from lord of the flies to animal farm in less than 2 weeks.
just gotta bend over & accept it reb, some animals are created more equal than others.

 

[John in CR]

I think RebelPilot's point was that there was just a war about not being commercial, yet there's commercial stuff going on with different rules for different people. At some point it's going to be a problem, and it apparently already has been to some extent behind the scenes. Frankly, none of it's ever been a problem for me, but we can't grow effectively with different rules for a select group.

Put another way, does Justin play around in this grey area? No, his business uses the For Sale section for special offers he sometimes makes to the forum. There's nothing wrong with new product or service notifications, which has pretty much been allowed for all, and that becomes especially important in the main discussion areas when input is sought regarding changes, mods, design, etc. Everyone wants to hear about the new stuff. Just offer it for sale in the For Sale section like Methods is doing on his latest shipment.

 

[Arlo1]

Has this forum started getting more commercial?
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=31217
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=31261
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24593&start=870
seems to me there are sales promotions in the non sale sections more often now

Methods is basiclay a profit free person! I get great deals from him cheeper then I can anywere else he is the #1 guy who helped save this forum with out him we would have nothing. You need to do a little more reserch without methods and recumbrence and others like them selling on the forum what the frock would we do to find the things we need? Methods sells cheeper then you will likly find it elsewere and he does everything open source so if you dont want to pay him you will be able to copie his design and build it your self! Those aren't adds btw try serching some of the other forums and see what adds you will find! I find it pretty anoying when every second post is an add!

 

[nicobie]

I don't see anything wrong with things the way they are.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Green Machine]

Also these guys are offering products that help the cause.

Its more than pure commercial advertising.

Ironically if the site were still in an outsiders hands these threads would be nipped in the bud.

Because ES is now basically as it always has been, these threads could never be censored. Same as 6 months ago. I dont agree that ES has changed.

As has been said these threads are by great contributors both to ES and the electric movement. Did anyone notice matt is giving 5 percent of proceeds of sale to ES?

 

[Pure]

I don't see anything wrong with things the way they are.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Agreed!

I have no issues with a "vendor" (don't think I would really label Methods as such) having a new product, that we all know will have a technical discussion, posting it in other areas outside of the FS section. Doing so prevents duplicate conversations and ensures more people will see the discussion.

There are countless technical discussions in the FS section that I have not read simply because I don't visit the forum very often. I haven't bought anything ebike related (other than a battery) in over 2 years. I have no plans for any builds in my near future so have no real reason to visit that forum. On the other hand, being able to read about a new drive for RC motors is something I'm interesting in reading. Having it's discussion in another forum makes sure I will see it.

 

[docnjoj]

I sure don't consider recumpence (Matt) a "vendor" as such. He is a world class machinist who makes his own stuff. I can't wait to see more of his machine work. I rarely go to the for sale section and much prefer to keep things as is. Just my 2 zlotnoys
otherDoc

 

[Jozzer]

These guys arn't "vendors", they are forum members making things and putting together deals to help us all as a community. Mostly they sell stuff that we need and is not available to us any other way..