Toyota Develops Prototype Battery

[panurge]

Thats either an enlightened approach to clean power generation,.. or a reckless fiscal policy intended to appease the green faction ..?
but , boy wouldnt you just love to have that opportunity ! 8) :wink:

I know what you mean, and PV isn't for sure the best thing at the actual technology level, there's not an easy answer, though, for sure as you say is a good individual opportunity, in my case important to maintain a mountain farming activity that typically drain a lot of time and money investments frequently without a direct return...that's the reasons why people left disadvantaged areas.

Regards

Jules

 

[dnmun]

@jules, i think it is really cool that you have 4 banger converted to CNG. is the conversion totally controlled by the guvment in italy like it is here? we cannot buy the conversion kits in the US, and are subject to impound if the feds find an unauthorized conversion. but the cost is really steep if you go to the conversion shops here, not as cheap as there. of course it is even cheaper in argentina or pakistan or iran where the use of CNG has made the most inroads already.

was the 4 cylinder fuel injected and did you retain the ability to use petrol? the honda civic can get about 40 mpgge from what i have seen the guys over here brag about, so since natural gas in the US is selling for about $3.80/mmbtu here, and gasoline is about 100k btu/gallon, that is about 38 cents/gallon equivalent for CNG before compression costs. one cent /mile.

in the US we have extensive high pressure pipeline systems all over the country where the natural gas is already pressurized to 3k psi or more so the filling stations could be located along the major pipeline routes and tapped at high pressure so filling can be rapid, and not pumped up from the low pressure domestic mains. so that would be about 9 cents/liter equivalent, or .12 euro/liter. how much do you pay for CNG?

 

[panurge]

@jules, i think it is really cool that you have 4 banger converted to CNG. is the conversion totally controlled by the guvment in italy like it is here? we cannot buy the conversion kits in the US, and are subject to impound if the feds find an unauthorized conversion. but the cost is really steep if you go to the conversion shops here, not as cheap as there. of course it is even cheaper in argentina or pakistan or iran where the use of CNG has made the most inroads already.

was the 4 cylinder fuel injected and did you retain the ability to use petrol? the honda civic can get about 40 mpgge from what i have seen the guys over here brag about, so since natural gas in the US is selling for about $3.80/mmbtu here, and gasoline is about 100k btu/gallon, that is about 38 cents/gallon equivalent for CNG before compression costs. one cent /mile.

in the US we have extensive high pressure pipeline systems all over the country where the natural gas is already pressurized to 3k psi or more so the filling stations could be located along the major pipeline routes and tapped at high pressure so filling can be rapid, and not pumped up from the low pressure domestic mains. so that would be about 9 cents/liter equivalent, or .12 euro/liter. how much do you pay for CNG?

The conversion here can be made by a motor shop but there are a lot of "cheap" ones because the long time Italy use CNG and government cannot make rules that arm thousands of families working there....tipical rules that petrol companies try to use to disincentive CNG was concerning safety in stations, saying that a CNG refill station must be at minimum 200metrers from a petrol one....or similar....
Here they sell CNG at near 0.8 euro per Kg (even at 220 atm CH4 is not liquid) and LPG for 0.6 per liter, with the same car/driver this mean a 1/4 of the petrol cost per Km for CNG and 1/2 for LPG.
I can post some pics of the conversion kits (both CNG and LPG) they are old installation, though, for simple motors (like the early '90 ones) but the newer have incredible features like the petrol + CNG-LPG mix ability and an injection for each cylinder.....if needed the controller can put some gasoline mixed with the gas to the engines to improve the power...... also the change between the 2 fuels is smooth and progressive mixing them.....
Yes The ability to switch for pure gasoline power is always possible by a simple button.... when you are used to drive with CNG (that's 20% the power) you can see at the gasoline button as a Nitro extra power for short times......

Jules

 

[dnmun]

way cool, i have seen some pictures, but yeah, post them up.

there is a lot of pressure to get CNG into the auto fleet here from the natural gas producers. the US now looks like it may have as much natural gas as russia so they need to find some way to sell it and if the EPA here can be influenced to change then i bet the italians could sell a lot of the kits here too. i did not know they were that sophisticated yet though. but kinda expected it with the modern electronic engine controls. cool.

 

[panurge]

then i bet the italians could sell a lot of the kits here too

Mmmmh
I think Here is an heritage of the past....in fact until 10 years ago and for 30+ years, the conversion kits have been the only way to have a CNG car....the thing has changed a bit since OEM - CNG cars appeared in the market, in Germany most CNG cars are OEM bifuel, and they have restricted rules for conversions....I suspect that this could be the trend in most countries approaching automotive CNG now....

Here you can see some pics....View attachment 1

Jules

 

[dnmun]

wow, big cylinder, i think that is larger than the cylinder in the civic CNG, which is 13 gallons as i recall. plus if it has bifuel, together you could have 1200+ km range with both together. nice layout, multipoint injection, way cool.

 

[Hillhater]

dnmun, any idea why that Honda USA CNG Civic is not selling like hot cakes ?
Is it shortage of refuel stations, small size ?, or simply lack of promotion ?
At $26k it seems like a real deal for anyone with any appreciation of economy or environment.
I am really disappoint we dont have the option here :?

 

[dnmun]

they sell them all. honda just doesn't make many. the compressor is expensive too and the cost of having it installed is another big factor and they lost the carpool lane in california too, but they all gravitate to utah where CNG is more available and cheap.

a pipeline company settled a lawsuit there by agreeing to provide CNG filling stations and cheap CNG as part of the settlement so people in utah can buy CNG for 60 cents/gge and there are a lot of filling stations along I15. all the ebay CNG civics go to utah.

 

[panurge]

Hi guys

There are 2 cyliders....capacity is in KG, 7.5 Kg per cylinder, with my old Corsa, consumption is about 25km per Kg, the motor in the pics is not the '92 OPEL-GM 1.2 that's a monopoint, indeed....
The OEM car models have tipically a reduced gasoline tank and an hidden CNG cylinder.
Indeed there's no reason to not use CNG, it's the cleanest, cheaper fuel actually for massive automotive use...well you know, Corporations have their reasons....
I can say also that a CNG converted car can be driven also during green-days when petrol-diesel cars cannot go round, and a CNG powered motor has a 20-30% longer life due to less residual, for exemple you can use the same spark plugs for 50.000+ Km---

Cheers

Jules