Transportation and how ebikes fit in

[veloman]

This is my conclusion that I've drawn, considering the abilities of the average person, and today's technology.

A normal bicycle is appropriate for commuting within a city center, with distances up to about 3 miles each way, assuming flat terrain. It would also work well for someone who lives within said distance of their destinations (think small town center).

A normal bicycle becomes inadequate for further distances, when carrying large loads, in hilly terrain, or hot weather.

That is where a quality ebike should fill in. I believe an ebike would realistically expand ones travel radius from 3 miles, up to 10-15 miles. This may not seem like much, but indeed it actually covers most suburban travel.

My point is that I don't think the general population even knows about ebikes, at least not quality models. I talk to the LBS about bike commuting and they say bikes don't work for people around here (commuting) because we are in a suburb. But they haven't ridden, or learned about ebikes using today's technology.

I just had this thought today while out on my road bike, going to the atm, 6 miles away. It was windy, lots of traffic (even though this is a suburb), with a few hills thrown in. I was riding for sport/fun, yet I had to admit to myself I would be MUCH MUCH better off on my ebike. I imagined myself as a bike commuter. Honestly, it would kind of suck to pedal that ride every day, for commuting purposes. With my ebike, I could go significantly faster, wear normal clothes, and use barely any effort pedaling. That's in comparison to: $1500 road bike, spandex, light sweating, dealing with considerably more traffic passing me, and sucking lots more exhaust with elevated breathing rate. Not to mention needing a shower, change of clothes, and additional food calories. I hate to knock cycling as transportation, but compared to an ebike, it's no contest. Yes, there is the need to recharge batteries.... but that's fairly simple once you set things up at home/work. Cost wise - it's about equal for a quality ebike and commuter bike.

I just got to say, ebikes are great tools of transportation. I don't understand why they aren't popular.

 

[dogman dan]

They sure are great transport. No way I'd ride a pedal bike 15 miles to work, spend the day shoveling, painting, or tarring a roof, and then ride home 15 miles uphill when it's 100 F in the afternoon. But I do it all the time on an ebike. In a weird way, it's better than a car. If I drive I arrive home feeling crappy. But riding the ebike home, something evens out in my body on the easy ride home, and I arrive feeling almost refreshed. It may be just that it takes me an hour to get home, and it's just time going by that gets me feeling better. But nevertheless, It's nice to not be so tired when I walk in the door at the end of the workday.

 

[jag]

I think you got it right. For the average person cycling up to 3 miles/5km ise easy and quick and eBiking can extend that 3-5 times. If TV showed people on bikes gliding by clogged commuter traffic traffic people would notice. Or when enough people have bought eBike kits from our vendors and average Joe is passed by an eBike every day on his commute.

But how long of a bike commute people will do is more of a cultural thing, and a physical limitation. Some places I worked in Europe had communities of bike commuters. There would be showers at work and these people would do their daily training and commute in one. In Grenoble, France where most people still live in the city the government moved one of the research labs to a suburban location 15km outside with terrible bus access. At first they had a 20-20sqm bike room in the building, but that filled up and they had to add an annex. Given the parking lot size I'm guessing close to 50% of the employees took the bike for the 15km ride.

 

[amberwolf]

Hmmm...gliding by clogged commuter traffic might be a good way to try to convince people it's a good alternative, but in reality to do that they'd have to be riding on the sidewalks, which at least here isn't really safe to do at any speed faster than jogging, at most.

Or else riding in an extremely narrow space to the right of the cars, with a small but fair risk of someone opening a door right in front of them, or running into deep potholes/etc that cannot be avoided except by dodging to the left (impossible because the cars are there) or jumping the curb onto the sidewalk. If the cars were moving, they often but not always will give a larger space between them and the curb as they flow around the bike, but when just driving down the road in closely-spaced traffic-jam formation they seem to tend to hug the curb a lot.

Another possible problem is the cars that are near an exit from the road suddenly deciding they dont' want to be in traffic anymore, and turning right across the bike's path without warning. That could also happen in regular traffic but there is usually the chance that the car or the bike could get out of the way if all the traffic is moving.

I won't ride up between the curb and cars, unless I have my own separate bike lane to do it in, and even then if they are crowding it or have their mirrors/etc sticking into the lane I still won't, because there's too much risk of the above. I will go pretty close with moving traffic, because it's easier to predict what's going to happen, but not in a traffic jam with already-tired and upset drivers that are now even more impatient than usual. It wouldn't surprise me to have someone door me on purpose just because they're pissed that I am still moving and they are not.

I just got to say, ebikes are great tools of transportation. I don't understand why they aren't popular.

Because to most people, they're still "just bicycles", which (using some of the terms I have heard used when overhearing others discussing bicycles) means they are for "kids, homeless, bums, retards, drunks, geeks, nerds, poor people, white trash" etc.

Many may not apply every term in the list, but I'd bet that they don't think bikes apply to *them* as an appropriate transport method.

Even most of my friends that own bikes don't ride them except in ideal perfect weather and conditions (meaning 68-72F, just the right sun angle, a hint of a breeze, no traffic, etc.) I think I now know half a dozen friends that actually *ride* their bikes, and would be willing to ride around with me somewhere. None of them have ebikes, but they know what they are, and arent' interested in having one, as they use the bikes for exercise more than anything else. Well, one is somewhat interested in possibly adding a motor to the bike he uses for geology sample trips, if it can be really light so he can lift it in and out of the pickup truck bed, and still be able to help him with hills and such.

Of the friends that have bikes but don't ride them, most say it's for the usual reasons, that it's too hot, they'll get sweaty, tired, etc. Some say because the saddle is uncomfortable or the bike itself hurts them to ride; but wont' listen to anything I have to say about adjusting things or let me do it, or take it to a bike shop to do it. Most of those that don't like the saddles also won't try a recumbent because "it's too wierd" or similar objections that make no sense to me.

Most of these friends that wont' ride know at least something about ebikes because they know me and my bikes, and I've talked to most of them about using a normal kit on theirs, or other types of conversions. I'd've thought money would be their big objection, but really they just give various excuses that amount to the fact that they don't want to be seen riding a bike in public, or they dont' want to ride just becuase they dont'. I can't change that kind of attitude--there's no way for me to overcome those objections. They're afraid of other people's perceptions of them.


I do run into more than a few people interested in the possibility of an ebike for commuting/etc., but many are daunted by the cost; they don't want to spend up to several times as much converting a bike as the wallyworld bike itself cost them. Or they want a huge range out of it but arent' willing to spend the money on a self-maintaining/warning system (BMS/etc) and also arent' willing to monitor it themselves (not even cheap lipo with just simple LVC buzzers). Those last group tend to also be those that run out of gas a lot in their cars, and wind up putting (or even walking) to the nearest gas station, fairly frequently.


Those not daunted by the cost occasionally talk to me about it, but so far I've yet to convert anyone.


Most of the people outside my friends that I know that really ride bikes a lot, including the dedicated cyclists, aren't interested in the motors for various reasons, many of them because "it's cheating". Remember that judge on the show Kepler's drive was featured on that said "sweat is a badge of honor"? That's an attitude I run into a fair bit. I suppose I understand it a little, but given the heat here can be deadly at times, I'd think that making it a little easier when necessary would be a good thing.


One other serious problem with converting people to riding bikes, even when I can get past all the attitudes about them, is that realistically it's not safe to ride in many places around the valley. Not for anyone that isn't very experienced in riding bikes or at least two-wheel transport of some kind, and that A) realizes how invisible they are, and B) knows how to handle the bike in an emergency situation. Most of these people barely know how to drive; I can only imagine the perception of cyclists that non-cyclists would have if more of these people were riding around. The "cagers" would feel even more about "us" like we do about them.

Another serious problem is the lack of facilities to lock up bikes, and in some cases places that actively ban them. Many shopping centers have posted "no bikes, skates, or skateboards" with various city or ARS codes. Usually they just mean on sidewalks, and few places even enforce that. But there are a few that actively ban bicycles from their entire shopping complex; fortunately the ones I've run into so far are all very small strip malls and the like. They won't let me even walk my bike in there and lock it up (even though some have bike lockups!) in order to shop. I can understand that they dont' want kids riding around stunting in their parking lots, but why they would ban responsible adults that want to spend money at their businesses....

Anyhow, the parking/lockup issue is a big enough one to deter some people. I went riding with a couple of people new to the area I met while out Freecycling once, who happened to by biking by as I was leaving the pick up point. After discussing the bike a moment (DayGlo Avenger, with the Fusin), they asked if they could buy me lunch and we could talk about converting theirs. Well, we stopped by a bunch of places in the area, and none had anywhere safe we could lockup the bikes at, except for a couple of fast food places like Jack in the Box (which is where we eventually went back to). In the end they decided that it might be useful eventually, but for now the cost was too much for the range they wanted, but mostly, they were disgusted by the fact that there weren't places to lockup, that traffic treated us as if we had no right to the road even in our bike lanes, and that the road conditions at the right side of the road were generally horrible. I guess in Portland where they are from, things are much better.

 

[John in CR]

Another serious problem is the lack of facilities to lock up bikes, and in some cases places that actively ban them. Many shopping centers have posted "no bikes, skates, or skateboards" with various city or ARS codes. Usually they just mean on sidewalks, and few places even enforce that. But there are a few that actively ban bicycles from their entire shopping complex; fortunately the ones I've run into so far are all very small strip malls and the like. They won't let me even walk my bike in there and lock it up (even though some have bike lockups!) in order to shop. I can understand that they dont' want kids riding around stunting in their parking lots, but why they would ban responsible adults that want to spend money at their businesses....

I would just laugh and say "it's an electric moped [or motorcycle] that doesn't require registration and the no bikes rule is just for kids anyway", and otherwise just ignore them. Security is a non-issue that way too, because that same security guard is sure to keep an eye on it for you. Don't get confrontational though, just park, lock, and walk away quickly after the it's not a bike, it's an electric moped statement.

 

[Zoot Katz]

Give it time.
Attitude and infrastructure need to catch up.
Ebikes are the fastest growing segment of the bicycle market.
There are more bikes than cars sold every year.
Ebikes are attracting new users from the ranks of drivers and bicyclists.
We're just ahead of the curve.

 

[spinningmagnets]

First, they have to find out E-bikes exist...then,...

They have to see the variety,...and then, they have to test-ride them. How many new posters start a build with SLA to keep the purchase price of the system down, and then a few months later they have NO PROBLEM spending big bucks for Lithium batteries?...A test-drive and the EV-Grin does wonders...

 

[veloman]

I remember the first time I rode my electric build, that strong silent pull. It was like nothing else. Yet it was with a currie motor on a cheap ebay single speed with crappy tires, uncomfortable position, and SLA sitting high up on my rear rack! Agh! But yeah it got me hooked.

Now I have a strong, efficient, lighter weight, comfortable, but noisy pull on my ebike. Making progress.

It's just that ebikes to the community I live in - they are non-existent. It's nowhere even near the radar screen. I did a search on SF bay area craigslist for 'electric' in the bike section. Hundreds of results. I get about 1 or 2 results in my area, here in CT.

The problem here in CT is that it gets too cold for half the year to consider being on a bike, for most people. For myself, I believe I will solve that issue with proper equipment, but a normal person isn't going to get on any bike when it's even 40 degrees, nevermind 20 on a January morning. (I'm not sure I would at 20 F either).

 

[knoxie]

Hey Veloman

Yes I totally agree with that!! perhaps we need to organise regional test an e-bike day!! bring along your ahem :lol: legal e-bike for people to have a test ride , pretty sure all of my rides would convince folks they arent half bad!! everyone who has tried my bikes have not stopped asking me about them.

There are only 2 bikes that I regularly see in my town, a Currie Izip and a shopping bike with a 4 series and loads of batteries, after talking to a few cyclists they have all seen me and wondered how on earth I could cycle that fast :lol:

Round here we live essentially on the sides or top of a valley with most of the workplaces in the bottom of the valley and the majority of residential areas up the hills at the top of the valley, so understandably the town is full of car commuters going to work as cycling up the hills home simply isn't an attractive option ad this has always been my point here in the UK, why on earth do they limit the bikes speed and power? IMHO there should be no limit in power and only a limit on speed.

Hills are the main reason why cycling fixed routes as a commute would always be and is the reason why cycling isn't popular in my town anyway :? the current crop of legal e-bikes would struggle to get up the hills round here as they are crippled by their 250W limit, modern cells could easily bump this up to 1KW and give folks usable and decent hill climbing ability which would really help them move off the shelf, their top speed and acceleration can still be controlled to be kept within safe levels, never understood a power limit? makes no sense.

I hope to see more bike and I do my best to promote it and have found talking to lots of folks on here that they have watched my videos over the years and were inspired to get in to e-bikes directly as a result!! which is great!!!

Knoxie

 

[dogman dan]

Amberwolf has a strong argument about some of the drawbacks of the bike fitting into his city.

I did not mention that 90% of my 15 mile commute is at least on a decent bike lane, or that 35% of it is on a really nice and safe bike trail. My city also has some alternative routes that are good for bikes. Irrigation ditches make great bike lanes, as do certain back streets with less traffic. A pretty militant group of roadies 25 years ago started it, and now the city has a fairly decent bike culture and good bike lanes and trails are built in the newer neighborhoods. Even so, only wallmart and kmart have a bike rack. The bikes there are always there, the rack is for employees. City places have a rack, like the library and museums. But no restaraunt I can think of has bike parking.

Nevertheless, there is at most a half dozen ebikes in town I have seen. Almost all are going to the campus, and are seen within 2 miles of it. Of the hard core bike commuters I see, only about 3 go the distance I do, and I am the only electric one.

 

[justadad1957]

i love giving some ppl the its an electric brake i wired up backwards
but there are a few more ebikes in town
and the town is becoming alittle more bike friendly

CYCLISTS GO GREEN WITH NEW BIKE RACKS


Soon there will be two new “faces” on the Winterset town square.
The Madison County Cycle Club is donating two artistic bike racks to the City of Winterset. The Club’s mission has been to promote bike safety and responsible cycling.
While looking for public service opportunities, club members wanted to advocate cycle usage for exercise and everyday errands. They came up with the idea of providing Winterset cyclists a place to safely park their bikes when they ride to the square.
The bike racks feature a silhouette of a bicycle within a circle and were created by Simon Welding of Winterset.