Turnigy LiPo quality?

[Sacman]

Ditto... 2 weeks ago I just got 16 packs of Turnigy 6s 5ah 20c from the US warehouse and all packs look good as advertised. Been running them on my bike down to only 60% DOD and charging/balancing/cycling on my Hyperion chargers and everything looks good in general. Worst thing I notice is that one pack shows cells 5 and 6 consistently lower than the othercells by 0.04 volts. But that gap always decreases to 5 millivolts after balancing. And I expect that to disappear after several more charce/discharge cycles.

I do also want to make note that my battery packs arrived in a box that was flattened and looking like it was falling apart. I would have expected that if I was buying from China. But I bought from theUS warehouse in Seattle. I was horrified at first but was relieved when opened the outer box to see that each battery pack was bubble wrapped, boxed, then bubble wrapped again. So they were fine.

 

[NeilP]

Just wondering (as someone else asked earlier in this thread) if the problem packs are LiPo Nano Tech cells? or the straight Turnigy LiPo's

 

[NeilP]

Just wondering (as someone else asked earlier in this thread) if the problem packs are LiPo Nano Tech cells? or the straight Turnigy LiPo's

 

[liveforphysics]

Just wondering (as someone else asked earlier in this thread) if the problem packs are LiPo Nano Tech cells? or the straight Turnigy LiPo's

I don't think anyone has reported a single nano-tech problem yet AFAIK.

It seems most all of these problems mentioned in this thread have been for the lowest quality 20c cells they offer.

 

[NeilP]

OK, thanks i can start sleeping at night again...just ordered 8 of the 10S nano's

 

[liveforphysics]

OK, thanks i can start sleeping at night again...just ordered 8 of the 10S nano's

Well, you sir will be a delighted man with a battery second to none. (well, I guess the pack will only be as good as you build it to be, but you're starting from the cells that have no equal.)

 

[gtadmin]

... It seems most all of these problems mentioned in this thread have been for the lowest quality 20c cells they offer.

Not always, mine were 25C but the point is taken.

GT

 

[dogman dan]

My problem packs were 4s 30c Turnigy packs. No problems with the 5s 30c packs. Wierd. At the time, the most expensive stuff offered too.

But I do agree, the QC should be a lot better on the nano's. I have no memory of a single complaint about a nano pack so far.

Don't be put off by the 20c zippy's though. Mine work great, I had to balance one a bit while breaking it in, but now it's fine. They are cheap enough to buy a couple spares. It depends on your intended use, for a race, buy the best. But for fun riding 20c zippy should be good enough for any bike with a 40 amp controller. FWIW, the 20c lipo comes with 10 guage wire that is much easier to put an anderson onto if that is what you plan to do.

 

[Sacman]

It seems most all of these problems mentioned in this thread have been for the lowest quality 20c cells they offer.

Well I'll keep an eye on these Turnigy 20c 6s packs that I just got but everything looks okay at the start. But I'll let you guys know what I find, if anything changes.

These are my 1st lipo battery packs I've had and I'm just wondering if the one pack that has 2 cells being 0.04 volts consistently lower than the rest within acceptable tolerance for lipos? Should I be concerned?

And I don't know if it makes any difference that Jeremy bought his packs (with a few duds) from the Germany warehouse and I got mine from the USA warehouse. Is there a difference in QA or storage issue between the warehouses?

Good to hear that Jeremy did finally get his money credited back to him for the dud packs tho.

 

[johnrobholmes]

I doubt there is any difference in QC (if any is present) between the warehouses. It is likely just luck of the draw on what lot they are from, and maybe hold old the packs are.

Got my 6 packs in. 20c 6s turnigy. All were in good shape and well balanced.

 

[Sam]

This thread has been really useful and interesting for me...BUT I have two electric bikes I need to power. A 36V 300W and a 48V 500W. For the 36V I've decided on the Turnigy 5S 5AH 30C (and running two in series to deliver 36V). Can anyone recommend a HobbyKing charger / balancer for this?

I'm also confused about what battery combination can be used for a 48V motor. When I divide 48 / 3.7 (ie. 1 C) it is 13. Doesn't seem possible to get 13C by any wiring combination? Am I missing something really obvious??
Thanks very much.
Sam

 

[neptronix]

This thread has been really useful and interesting for me...BUT I have two electric bikes I need to power. A 36V 300W and a 48V 500W. For the 36V I've decided on the Turnigy 5S 5AH 30C (and running two in series to deliver 36V). Can anyone recommend a HobbyKing charger / balancer for this?

I'm also confused about what battery combination can be used for a 48V motor. When I divide 48 / 3.7 (ie. 1 C) it is 13. Doesn't seem possible to get 13C by any wiring combination? Am I missing something really obvious??
Thanks very much.
Sam

13s is possible, you just need 3 packs of lipo in serial to do it. Or you could go straight to 14s and use 8 cell packs + 6 cell packs. ( but the 8 cell packs on HK tend to be overpriced. )

You will have to make your own battery charge connectors and serial harnesses for something like that.

Hyperion makes a 14s charger that will balance charge both of those packs in a serial configuration, 13s and 10s.

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product...o-NiMH-A123-Balancing-DC-Charger-14S-20A-550W

Hobbyking doesn't sell it, i think the lowest price i've seen was $180.

BTW, "C" is a rating of discharge.. you mean 13s, as in 13 lipo cells in serial.

 

[Sam]

Neptronix, thanks for your reply. Think I have a better grasp of things now. So interesting but a big learning curve...
Re. your 15ah 36v turnigy lipo, what charger do you use? Is there anything available for less than the $180 odd dollars for one which is capable of 10S?
Am I right in thinking somehow the charger balancer communicates with each of the 10 cells in this 36V pack?
- Sam

 

[NeilP]

Yes, but not a lot less

http://www.fmadirect.com/new_applications/10s_charger.htm
a 10 amp charger

even the iCharger 3010b is less than 180.....ok. not a lot...176

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=11597

icharger 1010b....159

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=11597


And yes, the charger has a socket that connects (maybe via an adapter lead or board) to the balance wires on the battery pack.
http://sites.google.com/site/tjinguytech/charging-how-tos/balance-connectors/

 

[neptronix]

Neptronix, thanks for your reply. Think I have a better grasp of things now. So interesting but a big learning curve...
Re. your 15ah 36v turnigy lipo, what charger do you use? Is there anything available for less than the $180 odd dollars for one which is capable of 10S?
Am I right in thinking somehow the charger balancer communicates with each of the 10 cells in this 36V pack?
- Sam

Yeah, getting into eBikes is intimidating. I spent my first 3 months browsing this forum and asking questions before i even bought anything. Lotta time..... but it's worth it

I use an iCharger 1010b+. Yeah, it is pricey, but it was the only 10s charger at the time and it came highly recommended from some people on here, plus the reviews on HK look spotless, and better yet it has tons of features and is well designed. If i were starting over again from scratch i would pick up the new hyperion 14s charger as it can charge a 52 volt strand in paralell. For ~$30 more it is certainly worth it. The wattage bug will eventually bite you and a charger that can handle 14s will certainly come in handy

And yes, the 10s chargers see each cell and balance them accordingly. My iCharger came with a balance board that lets me plug in two 5s packs. This is how it's done since there are no official 10s connectors in the RC world.

 

[NeilP]

. I spent my first 3 months browsing this forum and asking questions before i even bought anything. Lotta time..... but it's worth it

Same here...started thinking about doing this e bike thing in August last year. But asking questions often creates more questions than it answers...and then your head is so full of info but ...you cant connect it together...
You then make a decision...and post up about that...and someone else posts ....with another angle...that is something you never even knew about or considered...and so the lop starts again. Eventually you have to buy something...and then say..."right ...I have got this...XYZ...how do I ....ABC" and get solid answers....but of course ...you guessed...many opinions again

. My iCharger came with a balance board that lets me plug in two 5s packs. This is how it's done since there are no official 10s connectors in the RC world.

I have ordered the iCharger 3010B...and looking at the ;ics on the HK site... it seems to come with the same balance adapter board as the 1010 charger....but the picture is not that great.

Any chance you could take a top shot of the board for me...so i can see what connectors it has on it...JST-XH I presume.... I'll pm you with my e-mail if posting on to the forum is a chore.

thanks Neil

 

[dogman dan]

Lots of options for 48v with lipo.

For starters, 15s works for lots of folks, but it can be a risk. 15s lipo, 15x4.2v is really close to the max voltage for the capacitors on many 36v-48v controllers. So 15s may work or it may blow a cap. Some solve this easily by simply charging to 4.1v instead.

Others run 14s. This trims the hot off the charger voltage to about 60v, which is pretty close to the same as a 16s lifepo4 battery. Lots of ways to get there, two fives and a four, two sixes and a two, or one eight and one six.

If you can't afford the 8's right away, maybe try 12s. This requires a pair of 6s packs, and should stay above the 48v controllers lvc since the cut off for riding 12s lipo is about 41-42v. So you ride between 50v and 42v on 12s lipo. One advantage of 12s is that on many mtb's a higher voltage just gets you into a speed where you can no longer pedal along unless you modify the gearing of the bike. If that matters to you.

And finally, if you have a controller with 100v caps in it, then why not just go for 16s, with a pair of 8s packs? 64v hot off the charger would be quite nice I expect.

 

[neptronix]

8s are pricey compared to buying 4s/5s/6s 20c packs.
Most likely because the 8s come in 30c cells only.
Who needs a 30c rated battery? nobody's drawing 100amps off a single 5ah battery here, lol.

 

[liveforphysics]

8s are pricey compared to buying 4s/5s/6s 20c packs.
Most likely because the 8s come in 30c cells only.
Who needs a 30c rated battery? nobody's drawing 100amps off a single 5ah battery here, lol.

Who needs a higher C-rate battery? Anyone who wants more energy from the pack. Notice I said energy, not power.

Remember, the useful power you get from your battery is determined by the amps * the ACTUAL volts. Meaning, if one pack sags from 100v to 90v when it's under load, you're giving up 10% of your pack's energy in the form of wasted heat.

When you get to cells like Nano-Tech's in RC applications, a 4Ah Nano-tech pack can often deliver more usable energy to the motor than a 5Ah 20C pack.

It also enables you to charge effectively as fast you can pull power from the wall outlet, never need to worry about cooling your packs under any conditions, get fun sag-free riding performance, and enjoy the cycle-life and other benefits of running the modern LiPo cells technologies.

Even if you were never going to even pull 10C from a pack, it's still ALWAYS better to run the highest C-rate cells you can afford to buy. I never hinders you, and does provide real bennifits explained above.

 

[neptronix]

8s are pricey compared to buying 4s/5s/6s 20c packs.
Most likely because the 8s come in 30c cells only.
Who needs a 30c rated battery? nobody's drawing 100amps off a single 5ah battery here, lol.

Who needs a higher C-rate battery? Anyone who wants more energy from the pack. Notice I said energy, not power.

Remember, the useful power you get from your battery is determined by the amps * the ACTUAL volts. Meaning, if one pack sags from 100v to 90v when it's under load, you're giving up 10% of your pack's energy in the form of wasted heat.

When you get to cells like Nano-Tech's in RC applications, a 4Ah Nano-tech pack can often deliver more usable energy to the motor than a 5Ah 20C pack.

It also enables you to charge effectively as fast you can pull power from the wall outlet, never need to worry about cooling your packs under any conditions, get fun sag-free riding performance, and enjoy the cycle-life and other benefits of running the modern LiPo cells technologies.

Even if you were never going to even pull 10C from a pack, it's still ALWAYS better to run the highest C-rate cells you can afford to buy. I never hinders you, and does provide real bennifits explained above.

I knew you'd chime in.
I understand how it's important if you are running a buttload of amps. IMHO, if you are not, the nano-tech looks less appealing if money is any kind of concern.

For example, with my 14a controller, on a 10s 5ah 20c pack, i drop only two volts at most. I haven't measured my 15ah pack yet, but i am sure it will be in the neighborhood of dropping 0.66v when i hit the throttle. If that voltage drop is 1.5v when i am running my 30a mac... well, i have no complaints. For 33% - 50% less cost, i can take a 1.5v drop.

Nano-techs are cool, but are certainly a luxury if you are an average plebian with a hub motor.

 

[liveforphysics]

8s are pricey compared to buying 4s/5s/6s 20c packs.
Most likely because the 8s come in 30c cells only.
Who needs a 30c rated battery? nobody's drawing 100amps off a single 5ah battery here, lol.

Who needs a higher C-rate battery? Anyone who wants more energy from the pack. Notice I said energy, not power.

Remember, the useful power you get from your battery is determined by the amps * the ACTUAL volts. Meaning, if one pack sags from 100v to 90v when it's under load, you're giving up 10% of your pack's energy in the form of wasted heat.

When you get to cells like Nano-Tech's in RC applications, a 4Ah Nano-tech pack can often deliver more usable energy to the motor than a 5Ah 20C pack.

It also enables you to charge effectively as fast you can pull power from the wall outlet, never need to worry about cooling your packs under any conditions, get fun sag-free riding performance, and enjoy the cycle-life and other benefits of running the modern LiPo cells technologies.

Even if you were never going to even pull 10C from a pack, it's still ALWAYS better to run the highest C-rate cells you can afford to buy. I never hinders you, and does provide real bennifits explained above.

I knew you'd chime in.
I understand how it's important if you are running a buttload of amps. IMHO, if you are not, the nano-tech looks less appealing if money is any kind of concern.

For example, with my 14a controller, on a 10s 5ah 20c pack, i drop only two volts at most. I haven't measured my 15ah pack yet, but i am sure it will be in the neighborhood of dropping 0.66v when i hit the throttle. If that voltage drop is 1.5v when i am running my 30a mac... well, i have no complaints. For 33% - 50% less cost, i can take a 1.5v drop.

Nano-techs are cool, but are certainly a luxury if you are an average plebian with a hub motor.

Holy chit. 14amp controller. I didn't even know they made them that low. Your bikes peak power draw is below my no-load power...
In that case, you're right, the advantages would be pretty small. Higher-C cells still will always do everything better, but in your case, you've all ready got ample C-rate overhead even with a 20C cell.

As a rule of thumb, to keep efficiencies high and v-drop minimized, I like to size a pack to operate at no more than 1/4 of the potential C-rate. In your case with a 14amp controller, you've still got things covered pretty well, even with a 20C cell.

 

[johnrobholmes]

I run controllers in the 10 amp range sometimes. Just depends on what bike I grab. Once I put together my latest 35mph bike (a paltry 3 hp continous, 5hp peak), I really didn't need another one. While running it at 10hp was fun, it was more work to ride than I wanted. Tuned it down a bit.

When I want to go out and use mostly my legs, 10 to 18 amps at 36v is plenty for an assist bike! But I have been a biker for 24 of my 28 years and I hanker for pedals sometimes.

 

[dogman dan]

I find no difference in voltage sag between 20s and 30s lipo when using a small 20 amp controller. However, if I increase pack size from 5 ah to 10 ah, I do notice less sag. So it just depends on your needs, for a small controller bike, 4 bricks of cheap 20s might be a better bang for the buck than 2 bricks of nano.

But LFP is absolutely right all the same. If you can afford 50c batteries, get em. You might get a high power bike later, and you might get more cycles out of em. Undoubtably as quality of lipo goes up, so does the safety of recharging them. For sure, my 72v 10 ah 20c pack takes me less distance than my 72v 30 c pack. But the 30c turnigy is obviously bigger than the 20c zippy.

 

[Sacman]

For sure, my 72v 10 ah 20c pack takes me less distance than my 72v 30 c pack. But the 30c turnigy is obviously bigger than the 20c zippy.

Sorry for going a bit off topic but I'm just curious... how much greater distance (miles or percentage) does your 30c pack get over your 20c pack?

 

[El_Steak]

Here's how I received my 2 last orders from HK

Fortunately the Lipo was well packaged inside and survived unharmed. There was even a letter of apology in the box on the right from CanadaPost stating that they had received the package in that state from China (speedpost?)