pukeskywalker
100 µW
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2014
- Messages
- 7
dogman said:
Did you mean $5,000 or more? $500 is within my budget
Urgent need for ebike vs 2nd car, advice greatly appreciated
- Thread starter pukeskywalker
- Start date
Did you mean $5,000 or more? $500 is within my budget
spinningmagnets
100 TW
The original post mentions $1500 as your max budget. I think Dogman is saying that if you can squeeze out $2,000 ($500 more)...the reliability goes way up.
If you are certain you will never want more than a 20A max, you can get that with a 6-FET controller (get a sinewave, same price or maybe $10 more?). limiting the system to 20A max will help extend your range, but you will feel it with the extra pedaling over the hour each way on the commute. The MAC will be about $100 more than the BPM, and for 30A-35A I would get a 12-FET ($50 more?), but...you will never need to upgrade with your flat commute (using MAC/12-FET).
Regardless of whether you use a geared hub or direct-drive, the majority of happy E-bikers seem to settle on 48V X 25A = 1,200W. More power would mean a bigger, heavier, and more expensive battery, and...high amp-draws cause a worse efficiency miles-per-watt (by that I mean...don't use 45A and then complain about your battery isn't delivering the full range it's advertised for).
A lot of new riders are happy with 750W, until...they ride an E-bike with 1,200W. More power than that often means more heat in the controller/motor. Hot rodders know that they are playing with fire, and there is occasional carnage. But for a new E-biker who needs a reliable commuter, 1,200W seems to be the sweet spot. The MAC is robust, on flat terrain it can take 30A all the time (it only sees the heat from the full 30A during acceleration). Perhaps get the less expensive BPM, and later you can save up money to get a Cycle Analyst and then install a temp probe (very easy, there's a pictoral guide linked below). Once you have installed heat protection, you can feed the BPM 30A (if you're not totally satisfied with 20A-25A)
"Bafang BPM teardown and pics"
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=51237
"MAC teardown and pics"
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=51310
If you are certain you will never want more than a 20A max, you can get that with a 6-FET controller (get a sinewave, same price or maybe $10 more?). limiting the system to 20A max will help extend your range, but you will feel it with the extra pedaling over the hour each way on the commute. The MAC will be about $100 more than the BPM, and for 30A-35A I would get a 12-FET ($50 more?), but...you will never need to upgrade with your flat commute (using MAC/12-FET).
Regardless of whether you use a geared hub or direct-drive, the majority of happy E-bikers seem to settle on 48V X 25A = 1,200W. More power would mean a bigger, heavier, and more expensive battery, and...high amp-draws cause a worse efficiency miles-per-watt (by that I mean...don't use 45A and then complain about your battery isn't delivering the full range it's advertised for).
A lot of new riders are happy with 750W, until...they ride an E-bike with 1,200W. More power than that often means more heat in the controller/motor. Hot rodders know that they are playing with fire, and there is occasional carnage. But for a new E-biker who needs a reliable commuter, 1,200W seems to be the sweet spot. The MAC is robust, on flat terrain it can take 30A all the time (it only sees the heat from the full 30A during acceleration). Perhaps get the less expensive BPM, and later you can save up money to get a Cycle Analyst and then install a temp probe (very easy, there's a pictoral guide linked below). Once you have installed heat protection, you can feed the BPM 30A (if you're not totally satisfied with 20A-25A)
"Bafang BPM teardown and pics"
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=51237
"MAC teardown and pics"
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=51310
wesnewell
100 GW
My bike cost ~$800 total. that includes the bike, big seat, new handlebars, windshield, 48V 1000W DD rear motor kit, and 888wh battery pack. I've got 11K miles on it so far. I've never had a problem with the electrical part of it. Just a couple of flats, and had to replace BB bearings once. I wouldn't hesitate to use it as a commuter, but I've been retired for 12 years now. You don't have to spend a fortune to get a reliable ebike. My range is ~45miles at 20 mph, but another $150 would take that to ~65 miles. If I need the speed I can go over 40mph for a few miles without burning up the motor. I could run it at 30mph all day along if the battery would last that long.
Mtnm
100 µW
30 miles does seem like a long commute on a bike, even an e-bike.
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2192653
Some members on the above forum (hosted in Australia) do report commutes coming close to your plan.
The e-Motions are an off-the-shelf bike ranging $2,000-$4,000, list.
My interest was a full suspension bike, so I went with the e-Motion Neo Jumper. It is fun.
Find some local dealers of e-motion, or Stromer and do some test rides.
The Bionix kits have an excellent reputation, so be sure to check them out.
I find my 350 watt hub motor easily gets me in the 15-20 mph speed range, where I'm comfortable riding in normal bike lane situations.
I only get 12-15 miles of range on my 9 amp-hour batter before recharging, but I try to only draw it down to the 70% level before recharging as I wish to prolong battery life. That range is on dirt roads with around 500 feet of elevation gain.
Curious about where you live. Weather and terrain makes a great deal of difference.
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2192653
Some members on the above forum (hosted in Australia) do report commutes coming close to your plan.
The e-Motions are an off-the-shelf bike ranging $2,000-$4,000, list.
My interest was a full suspension bike, so I went with the e-Motion Neo Jumper. It is fun.
Find some local dealers of e-motion, or Stromer and do some test rides.
The Bionix kits have an excellent reputation, so be sure to check them out.
I find my 350 watt hub motor easily gets me in the 15-20 mph speed range, where I'm comfortable riding in normal bike lane situations.
I only get 12-15 miles of range on my 9 amp-hour batter before recharging, but I try to only draw it down to the 70% level before recharging as I wish to prolong battery life. That range is on dirt roads with around 500 feet of elevation gain.
Curious about where you live. Weather and terrain makes a great deal of difference.
Holocene
100 W
pukeskywalker said:
Hello again, "Flatlander" :lol: (since you haven't updated your Forum Profile to show your location, let's assume you live in Wichita, Kansas). Just for laughs, Craigslist shows this 6 day old listing for a 250cc Honda Scooter:
https://wichita.craigslist.org/mcy/4500497206.html
Honda Helix 250cc - $1100 (East Wichita)
But seriously, it's considered polite around here to update your location in your profile. Word.
dnmun
1 PW
you can buy a honda civic off CL for that money too and not have to ride in the weather and get good gas mileage. the point is to get off the gas treadmill imo. this place is about how to hack up juiced riding for future ebike/EV users to be able to have a reliable form of transport with out the impossible to repair problems of something like a stromer. imo.
sell your fancy road bike and get a cromo frame cargo bike with dual cheap geared hub motors that freewheel and dual cheap controllers and a single high quality battery
you need to up your budget to 2k
you need to charge at work so add in one of justin's new chargers you can mount on the frame
you don't need a cycle analyst or display for now
pedal up hills and break a sweat
don't lug it
you will always make it to work
you need to up your budget to 2k
you need to charge at work so add in one of justin's new chargers you can mount on the frame
you don't need a cycle analyst or display for now
pedal up hills and break a sweat
don't lug it
you will always make it to work
ridethelightning
1 MW
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2013
- Messages
- 2,010
+1
with a large good quality battery, anything is possible. onboard fast charging would make it a lot easier too, but thatll cost a little extra.
even if you have to sell your grandmother to up the budget, go the ebike, cos its just so much more fun!
http://electrotransport.ru/ussr/index.php?topic=22559.0
with a large good quality battery, anything is possible. onboard fast charging would make it a lot easier too, but thatll cost a little extra.
even if you have to sell your grandmother to up the budget, go the ebike, cos its just so much more fun!
http://electrotransport.ru/ussr/index.php?topic=22559.0
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dogman dan
1 PW
Sorry I ignored this awhile. I meant a budget of $2000 will build a very solid commuter bike.
As Wes rightly points out, it doesn't have to include a high priced motor kit, particularly if you don't ride in rain daily. Even if you do ride wet, you can stuff the vulnerable plugs in a box with grommets. IMO, you want the reliability of a dd motor.
But If I understand right, this is a 60 mile daily ride, not a 30. I did 30 miles a day for years, and it wasn't hard or taking a huge budget. 15 miles charge 15 miles. Not a huge expense for the battery.
Mostly, I was saying you will spend quite a bit on just the battery, for a 30 mile twice daily ride at 25+ mph. You'll need close to 30 ah of 48v. In good quality, safe to charge at work battery, that's about a $1500 budget just for the battery.
Then you aren't going to carry a battery that big on some cheap ol rack, or spend 20 bucks a year on tires. The price creeps up. A Honda 250 scooter would do it fine for less if you can find a good deal.
As Wes rightly points out, it doesn't have to include a high priced motor kit, particularly if you don't ride in rain daily. Even if you do ride wet, you can stuff the vulnerable plugs in a box with grommets. IMO, you want the reliability of a dd motor.
But If I understand right, this is a 60 mile daily ride, not a 30. I did 30 miles a day for years, and it wasn't hard or taking a huge budget. 15 miles charge 15 miles. Not a huge expense for the battery.
Mostly, I was saying you will spend quite a bit on just the battery, for a 30 mile twice daily ride at 25+ mph. You'll need close to 30 ah of 48v. In good quality, safe to charge at work battery, that's about a $1500 budget just for the battery.
Then you aren't going to carry a battery that big on some cheap ol rack, or spend 20 bucks a year on tires. The price creeps up. A Honda 250 scooter would do it fine for less if you can find a good deal.
all the bike rental companies use geared hub motors and they see tons of miles.....the trick is they use PAS not a throttle. avoid jack rabbit starts and over volting and a geared hub will last
another option would be one cromotor in a 20" wheel but you lose redundancy and it might end up more expensive. if you want a reliable car replacement u need a cargo bike where everything is low stresssed. nothing sucks more on a cromotor than running out of juice or having something break. impossible to pedal for long. even if you lost you battery with dual geared hubs you can still pedal easy since they freewheel. if you ride in the winter summer 365 things will break so why not expect it
another option would be one cromotor in a 20" wheel but you lose redundancy and it might end up more expensive. if you want a reliable car replacement u need a cargo bike where everything is low stresssed. nothing sucks more on a cromotor than running out of juice or having something break. impossible to pedal for long. even if you lost you battery with dual geared hubs you can still pedal easy since they freewheel. if you ride in the winter summer 365 things will break so why not expect it
