V moto E max 120 s

[whereswally606]

this is the updated spread sheet to include VMOTOs offerings above.

there is a subtle difference i.e. EXW so shipping isn't specified which may make these VMOTO ones more expensive.

I estimated shipping for a GBS 60ah 3 packs based on half the difference. so that we have a like for like comparison. ie 60ah to 60ah

so in summary:

GBS 48v 60ah £821.26, shipped, no bms, no charger 16s 2 years waranty
vmoto 48v 52ah BMS ready, £1,051.38, NOT SHIPPED, NO CHARGER, 2 yrs waranty
vmoto 48v 60ah BMS not required £634.06, NOT SHIPPED, but we have the charger already, 1 yr waranty

I haven't got details of a warranty on the GBS cells but have send Wing Lan a message.
EDIT WING From GBS battery on alibaba:
Hi Andy, our batteries have a warranty of 2 years. If something is wrong within the warranty time, we will offer you new one. Best regards. Wing

 

[Kevin1963]

Whereswally

Just a couple of corrections to your data on my quotes

48 v -60ah no BMS needed use same charger 16 month warranty ( not 12 months)
48v- 52ah includes BMS and new charger but not posting 2 year warranty ( includes new charger)

Any way I've being in touch with V moto in China regarding a price including posting and there is going to be a new V moto dealer starting up in June in London , I've e mailed them to try and get a better price including posting for 1 or 3 sets and it could be promising because they will be having a lot of equipment delivered around this time and it would reduce posting by quite a bit so I will keep you informed regarding any developments but at the worst we will now have a contact in the uk if we need any parts or advice.

Thanks Kevin

 

[whereswally606]

That is good news. I would even go down there and have a talk to them, could do with a new throttle and indicator switch.

 

[squall.eu]

Squall, had some funny cogging in the motor but I think this was due to wires from the msu to the proud eagle controller being squashed under the seat, when I moved the wires so they were not being squashed the cogging stopped. only issue I have right now relates to my brake light. can you take a photo of your controller under the seat for me, I really would like to see where the wires from the msu on the right connecter (looking from the back of the bike) go to as 4 have been removed on my bike.

the problem I have is that the brake light is always on and the intensity doesn't change when the brakes are pressed.

thanks for any help you can be on this

Hi and very sorry for long delay in replying to your request. Please find the photos you asked for.

Do you know by any chance how to unlock the speed limit on Proud Eagle controller? - it's really painful that it's limited to not even 30mph (mine cuts around 27mph) and difficult to cope with the traffic.

I also have a very weird problem- when I turn the key in the ignition to "on" there is no response to throttle handle, i.e. it won't move, for some random time, after that it's back to normal for the duration of the journey until I switch it off - another attempt to start after some break and the situation repeats. Funny thing is that pressing the horn switch shortly somehow "wakes" the throttle immediately and the scooter is ready to go (otherwise takes some waiting) and this isn't coincidental - works every time! Any advise on this please?

 

[whereswally606]

Hey Squall,

thanks for the reply, The throttle thing is interesting. On my 90s the controller warns when the ignition is turned with full throttle and stops any motor output. I have a theory on yours which is that when you hit the boost it is letting a higher signal voltage show from the throttle. Initially it might be too low (until capacitors in the controller fill up, i'm guessing here) and when you hit the boost it must allow the controller to see just enough voltage to turn the motor. As I said only a theory you would have to test the voltages on the throttle on startup with and without the boost button pressed.

RE the controller programmer I've got. it only appears to work with 1 of the 4 proud eagle controllers I have, looking at all four of them there is one standout difference which I will show in a photo.


the controller with the red writing on it has this extra board which appears to be the difference between it and the other 3, I can only program this one with the device I have the other 3 throw me an error.


here is the reverse showing the version numbers not that I know anything about the different revisions.

If i'm honest I don't hold much hope for removing the speed limiting on these controllers. Im probably going to go the way of many other on here and use a sabavoton or one ambition is to build a lebowski controller which a larger power stage ala zombies efforts on here.

Im a little strapped for cash with a marriage coming up and building works to do so don't expect much progress anytime soon

I hope this was some help though I suspect not. one good bit of news is that I managed to find the vin number on the chassis to get my new v5c for the 90s, so that's one more hurdle leaped. if you are wondering where the vin plate is on a 90s it's on the left hand side (as you sit on the bike) under the front fairing on the piping hidden behind the rubber splash guard about level with the front axle. (also its a pain to read).

 

[Kevin1963]

Jonescg

Not spoke to you for a bit , could I ask you a little bit more regarding Lithium conversion , I know I can buy the batteries ans BMS plus new charger but when I convert from my Silicon batteries is it a case of just swapping the batteries and connecting the red and black cables or is there more wiring that needs alteration because of swapping from silicon to Lithium.

Cheers kevin

 

[jonescg]

Hi Kevin - yes all you need to do is connect the red and black wires to the output of the battery. Ideally the battery will have a battery management system which prevents cells from being over charged or over discharged. You can get complete BMS modules for 16s LiFePO4 or 14s Li-Co/Ni/Mn etc which will cut the charger off and prevent over-discharge. Bestech make a pretty good unit and they allow up to 100 A discharges.

Hope this helps,
Chris

 

[Kevin1963]

jonescg

Thanks for your prompt reply it was just that i got a PDF from E max in China and there version had a few wiring modification to do but having read a few E max stories on here it would seem that the wiring on E maxes is over complecated. what sort of price in Sterling / Pounds would i be looking at if i did the Lifpo4 conversion with 16 cells ?.

Thanks kevin

 

[squall.eu]

whereswally606

Thanks for all your advise, so far unfortunately I'm not sure what's causing the problem. I've written to Emax and waiting for some help from them. I suspect the controller is faulty and am considering the replacement. Virtually the lack of programmability of the Proud Eagle and very limited speed I'm getting appeal to the upgrade as well. I've been offered the original Sevcon controller from 120s (so already programmed for E-max), unlocked to 60mph, brand new but without warranty for £250. Do you thing it'll be the good upgrade and any idea how easy/difficult would it be to convert from Proud Eagle to Sevcon in term of wiring? Cheers

 

[Kevin1963]

Whereswally

Just read your reply you couldnt tell me where you got the sevcon controller from could you and which version it is especially with it being programmed for 60 mph as my sevcon controller is only for 36 v to 48 v and 450 amp , what volt / amp does this version suit ? . In return with me having a sevcon controller in my bike I should be able to help you with how my bike is wired up as I would have thought if its a higher voltage it would be wired the same.

Update on my Emax 120 S, ive charged the bike 101 times now and have covered 1950 km ( 1211 miles) without any issues
(touch wood) I keep checking the range on max power and im still getting 21 miles but am looking to up grade the bike to lithium near end of this year depending on how the batteries hold up when it starts to get colder.

cheers kevin

 

[jonescg]

I should really do a bit of a build log for the E-max scooter I'm doing in the shed now.

I've done a few of them now, so this one should be a walk in the park.

 

[whereswally606]

Yes please Jonesey, a build log would be a help for when I get round to sorting my 2 out.

 

[Nickel]

Hi
Does anyone know where I can source an innertube for the rear wheel of my Emax 120s. the inner tube that shipped with the bike has a valve problem, but it is a non standard tube. Every tube I can find in the right size has a valve in the inner centre line of the tube (either angled or straight), but this needs to be a straight valve from the inner side of the tube (like a car tube) in order to go through the side rim.

Any help much appreciated.

regards

Nick

 

[Kevin1963]

Nick

I have a 120 s as well and am just about to swap to winter tyres and i must admit i didnt know this either but with you only just having the bike shipped surely you can go back to the surplier and request a replacement because the item is faulty, i know it may take a little longer but worth sending a E mail.
Where abouts are you in the Uk as in dinnington near worksop we maybe able to help each other in the future, is your bike fitted with silicon or Lithium?.
just to give you a bit of confidence in the 120 s i have covered 4000 km on the silicon batteries so far which is approx 300 charges and batteries stil going strong though i have now started looking at lithium conversions for the future, ive not had a single issue with the bike in the 4000 km and am very pleased with its performance and built quality.
anyway if you need any help or advice this is a very good forum for it .

Cheers kevin

 

[Nickel]

Thanks Kevin

Sorry should have said that the inner tube has developed a problem. Had the bike for over a year now, and done 1750km. Very, very pleased with it. Mine too has the SLA batteries, and they're performing really well at the moment.

I have replaced the valve core on the inner tube, only to find that in fact the problem was a very small puncture on the opposite side of the tube. It seemed to be a valve problem because with the tube and tyre in situ, the bead of the tubeless tyre was working so well that the air was only managing to leak out past the valve. I find that quite surprising given the bolt on nature of the rim, but I suppose the air is just finding the path of least resistance. So I am now patching the tube.

However, I have been in contact with an Italian dealer for the Emax [when will we get a proper British one again?] and he has said he can supply rear inner tubes, so I am going to try and get a couple of spares.

Will be interested to hear how you get on switching to li-ion.

I'm in Winchester, so not too close but could be further away as well!

Thanks again.

Nick

 

[Kevin1963]

Nick

Ive just remembered when i contacted China E max regarding a lithium conversion and they were in the process of getting a new UK dealer from about June 15 and i had a couple of conversions with them by E mail regarding Lithium conversion price but they were too expensive from them, ive attached there details below and ive checked the site and its live.
Im gethering info on Lithium packs 48 v 60 ah with BMS and Charger delivered to UK my first price fully fitted from a uk source was £1975 (choke ) ive since looked at pricing it up myself and with the same battery packs and buying my own BMS and charger got it down to £1200 but ive got a few more prices to come in yet these being mainly from China for a full system as we both know the Silicon batteries wont last for ever and my bike has slowed down a little now the weather is getting cooler, would you be interested in buying two together in the near future or for that matter any other people out there who may read this blog, let me know as this will reduce price.
Nick could i ask you to check this for me with regards you silicon batteries , i typically do a 12 mile round trip and I tested my battery for distance and they do 20 to 22 miles, after a 12 mile journey i put my batteries on charge and they take approx 1.5 hours to fully charge and it then goes into float mode where the charger keeps switching on and off, so how far do you travel in a day and how long does it take to re charge your battery set ? because they say if you dont fully drain the batteries they will last for longer.

Thanks kevin

Natasha Terinova



Chief Executive

Vmoto UK Distribution Ltd.

Tel: + 44 (0) 7989 219 613

E-Mail: natasha.terinova@vmoto-uk.com

www.vmoto-uk.com

 

[Nickel]

Hi Kevin

It's tempting but I think I'll rely on my SLAs a bit longer given they're only a year old. I may as well get their lifetime out of them before then thinking about swapping to Li-ion.

I work from home, so I use mine mostly for scooting round town, doing the shopping, picking tools etc from Screwfix, and giving my wife and daughters lifts [to save getting the diesel out of the garage and killing people!]. My average miles per trip is therefore something like 5 miles, and the longest I've done before a recharge is a few 7 mile trips. It takes about 25 minutes to recharge a 5 mile trip.

I'm hoping that keeping the SLAs topped up like that and not placing massive demands on them will keep them going for quite a while.

Interesting to note the UK dealership details, thanks. Had already ordered from Italy but will certainly keep those details handy.

Cheers

Nick

 

[ccriss]

I read in a previous post the sevcon controller can be easily reprogrammed. I think I found the software searching in ES, but I'm afraid a specific cable is required, this: ixxat usb to can driver, but I'm not sure, someone can say if can be used an ordinary usb to can driver cable. I will like to buy an E-MX 120s, upgrade to LiFePo4 and increase the speed to the max whicjh should be around 80Kmh.

 

[whereswally606]

you need a specific cable which cost about £150, then you need the correct DCF file for the motor. Its not easy so I hear and i've looked into it and the software which programs sevcons ie either old and thus will have defects unpatched due to its age or very expensive and licensed from Sevcon (ie you buy the cable and software from them for about $900 and then they will try to help you. I personally would love to try this but it very expensive to play and also you need a good battery else a decent controller is not going to help. both the silicone batteries on mine are toast.

If you are lucky enough to have an Emax which has a sevcon then it might be a matter of tweaking the variables. I have a 90s and 120s both with the older proud eagle controllers. I looked into upgrading all this but my opinion is that it will be easier for me to get a sabvoton or Kelly or even lebowski motor controller than to try get a sevcon to work with this bike.

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but keep your ideas realisable.

 

[ccriss]

Thank you whereswally606, I was supposing to face this trouble. I have 40 cells 40AH of LiFePO4 and the battery box of E-MAX is big enough to fit 32 cells in 16s2P to get a battery pack of 4KWH!! Certainly some customization on the battery box should be done, but just "tuning". The problem is I already have an elecric scooter which is fine to me, but has a smaller battery box and the remaing cells will be unused :-( Moving to the E-max will allow me to increase the range, but I would not like to bet on this if reprogramming the controller is that mess!!

 

[whereswally606]

an 80ah 48v battery is plenty range. if you have 40 cells you could even go to 20s2p and get a 72v capable controller like the sabvoton, then you will have the most capacity you can given the cells you currently own (but maybe its good to have spares.

 

[jonescg]

I find the seat so damn uncomfortable, 3 kWh is PLENTY

 

[whereswally606]

just did my CBT last weekend, bike is getting mot on Wednesday and insurance I've been quoted £327 for the year by Swinton insurance. *Edit put my car no claims in the bike no claims, honest mistake which was rectified in the follow up phone call which bumped up the premium.
EDITEDIT. been looking again at internet prices used ASDA and found that I can get the quote down to £196 with MCE (online only) so worth looking again. spoke to carole nash whose phone operator said that a like for like battery swap (i.e. no performance increase is not a modification needing note on the policy) but they then quoted >£400 so didn't go with them.

FINAL EDIT insurance confirmed with lithium battery upgrade with MCE insurance at £220. phew

Been getting the bike ready and have ironed out lots of issues in the last couple of days.

The rear brake sounded like it was binding so took it off for cleaning.
rear motor was found to be doing the slowing (not the brake) so hooked up the programmer and found that throttle off braking was set at 100% ( probably my own experimenting a while back to see what was what ) set back to 0% and no binding/horribly jerky noises now when throttle is released.
Whilst the brake caliper is off I will inspect and clean it properly.

Switches for rear light was faulty so took apart and filed/scrapped the verdigris (green stuff) off the copper contacts, works great now. Same with light switch for front lights which was also broken. The previous owner left the bike out in all weather which truly did some damage to lots of the controls. However this has been a problem on all the E-max scooters I have and so now I can probably fix the rest without too much issue. Trying to think about how to better waterproof these things but in reality will only be aiming to use this bike on fair weather days as I can use my Honda Insight on the rainy or snowy days.

Switching over the indicators to led ones as the casing to the old ones broke eventually I will replace all the lights with LED ones, the stalk is shorter and I read in the MSVA manual the minimum distance between indicators is 180mm so I have to measure that before I commit to installing them. Its been an unusually nice bit of weather at the moment in the UK and have been looking forward to riding again since last weekend which was beautiful weather.

For now only 16s in installed for the mot, but will be having two fecther bms and a dcdc step up between the 10s to the 16s plus an ideal diode to protect the 10s from Nick Long of revolt.eu. That should be 5.6kWh. should be enough to get me 24miles to work.

 

[Nickel]

Hi squall.eu
I have an Emax 120s which is showing the same problem you described on the forum. i.e. intermittent no response to throttle, but a press of the horn button will wake the bike up. Did you ever get your problem sorted please?

Many thanks.

Nickel

 

[whereswally606]

Hey Nickel, one of my throttle broke on the 90s, they don't have the metal ends to the bars so easily done if trying to manually move the bike. (actually done by my courier when he tried to put it in the van on delivery to me) Anyway this cause no end of issues as the hall sensor magnet arrangement are quite sensitive to misalignment. Have you tried another throttle?

Id also say try unplugging all the wires in that bit near the headset of the bike (take a photo first so you can replug them back in the right places).

also check all connections into the mcu and controller under the seat.

To me the issue sounds like a wiring one. one way to test this would be look at the throttle inputs direct to the mcu and hack together a temporary look direct into the mcu with a known working throttle. the connector is a atx power type one so you can pickup an extender off ebay for about £3 to make sure you don't have to damage any of your own wiring.

you never know in time we make be able to offer you a Lebowski power solution instead. When we have it sorted out for ourselves.