VIDEO of my 18.6kV Cromotor 50mph club

zombiess

10 MW
Joined
Jan 31, 2011
Messages
3,048
Location
Oklahoma City
I finally got off my lazy butt and got my 18.6kV high speed wind Cromotor running. It's awesome. I have it laced into a 14" motorcycle wheel with a tire that comes out to 18" in diameter and 2.5" wide. I ran the bike on a half discharged battery pack setup of 18S lipo. Peak voltage when I started off was 69V. I don't have the shunt exactly calibrated, but it's an EB318 FET controller board that I bought off BlackArrow for $10 (board only, no case/wires/fets. Board was originally meant for spare parts since phase A was blown to hell). For some stupid reason I spent 7 hours completely rebuilding this. Had to replace the SOT-23 NPN transistor on driver A since it was toast along with it's traces. Repair took so long because working with SMD is a MF'r for me and honestly I'm amazed I made it work at all. I then installed 18 brand new matched IRFB4110's I had left over from the 24 FET controller builds I did (still have 2 left if anyone is interested).

For this maiden journey I said screw it, lets test out this controller at 70A battery, 130A phase and see what it can do. I opened up the MK2 software and saw the battery amps only go to 65A max... F' that, open up HXD and start hex editing. Now my MK2 software goes from 7A to 250A battery side. I have to give XPD a shot now to see if the values all match up now that I have a base line.

So I programmed the controller and set the 3 spd switch to 33%, 66% and 99% throttle. I leave the maximum at 99% because I ALWAYS want to be in PWM because I measured this motor at 30uH inductance, 37mOhm per winding, which puts this motor into controller killer territory. None the less, I had faith that matched FETs and 99% throttle would allow it to live so off I went. Top speed with the battery sagging to 63V was 50mph. Came back home after 1 mile, reflashed the controller to 115A battery, 140A phase and took it out again. I only saw a max of 103A battery but it had more pep, battery voltage was sagging to 61V under load and resting voltage was 67V when I started. Batteries are pretty much done and were starting to get warm. During Regen I noticed I was able to hit peaks of 44A and that slowed me down good, sometimes giving a little chirp at engagement, but it was not violent.

So to sum it up I did 3.5 miles of hard riding at 70-105A, the controller was barely warm (the batteries got warmer than it did) and the motor laughed at me and said "is that all you got"? It was the coolest running piece of the entire setup.

Over all a really good night, I love this motor, but I need to feed it more amps and batteries. The mid range to top end pull is nice. Starting off is much easier than the 9.3kV motor, at least until I crank up the phase amps or add more voltage.

One major difference I noticed between this motor and my 9.3 V0 Cromotor is this (V1 Cromotor) is really quiet. Could be due to the MC wheel not resonating the same as a bike setup does, even my wife noticed it's really quiet compared to my other motor.

BTW, this setup was no rear disc, only regen. The bike felt the most stable it ever has, probably because the smaller wheel changed the geometry. Going 50 felt very smooth. Kinda strange having to counter steer like a sport bike does on a bicycle. Had a lot of onlookers doing double takes.

Here are some pics of the setup.

View attachment 2

View attachment 1

IMG_20130608_190653.jpg
 
I measured this motor at 30uH inductance, 37mOhm per winding, which puts this motor into controller killer territory.

how do you measure inductance? also,
what are the high and low limits of micro-Henries that are safe?
When inductance is too low, what happens to kill controllers?
When inductance is too high, how can that hurt the controller?
What can be done in the design of a motor to have "good" inductance?
What can be done to an existing motor to raise/lower inductance to get it into the "good" range?

Thanks in advance!
 
spinningmagnets said:
I measured this motor at 30uH inductance, 37mOhm per winding, which puts this motor into controller killer territory.

how do you measure inductance? also,
I used an el cheapo inductance meter I bought of ebay, measures my marked inductors I have laying around with decent accuracy

what are the high and low limits of micro-Henries that are safe?
I don't know
When inductance is too low, what happens to kill controllers?
You can run into a situation where current limiting does not kick in fast enough and overshoots. The lower the inductance the faster the overshoot rises. The rate at which the current rises is known as di/dt, current over time
When inductance is too high, how can that hurt the controller?
I don't think it will, but I'm not sure. High inductance would probably be a very slow wind motor and very easy to drive for a controller but it will reach it's current saturation faster
What can be done in the design of a motor to have "good" inductance?
Have someone who knows motor design do it, that would not be me.
What can be done to an existing motor to raise/lower inductance to get it into the "good" range?
you can add air core inductors to a low inductance motor to increase inductance making the motor easier to drive, Arlo1 and I believe John in CR have both done this, there is a thread somewhere

Thanks in advance!
 
Just got back from another test ride. Decided I wanted to abuse the controller and see what it could take. I'm only running 3 shunts in my 18 FET controller and I think it's holding it back some. I programmed it for 136A battery, 170A phase and went out and abused it for 30 minutes on a 18S3P 74V/18AH Nano Tech pack I cobbled together into the battery bag. It has some more pep now and I can run with most cars from a stop. I'm only pushing a little over 7kW into the controller.

I recorded a peak of 126A with 5 volts of sag, my wiring sucks to be honest as I never intended to run this thing so hard. I'm only using 12 AWG wires, maybe some are 10AWG, somewhere in there at least, what ever I had in my scrap wire pile when I rebuilt the controller as I'm saving all the good stuff for the 20 18 FET controllers I'm building to sell.

I'm going to start a new thread to see how high of current others have gone on an 18 FET controller, but with me peaking 126A and it holding over 100A until around 45mph I thought for sure this controller would be getting warm... nope. Everything gets just slightly warm, even with me beating on it for 20 mins over 9 miles without giving it much time to rest.

Bike is an absolute blast to ride even at just 7kW. It has such a smooth power band and is easy to launch with it just lifting the front wheel up a few inches while I'm leaned over the bars. I know this is because I'm barely feeding it any phase amps though. If I took it to 250 phase amps it would be a whole new monster, but I think I'm going to back of cranking it up any higher on this controller. I'm happy with the results. Next up is a 24 or 36 FET controller at 100V and getting power into the 15-20kW range.

I received a few honks and thumbs up from random drivers. One guy in a Camaro wanted to know what it was and said it looked bad ass. It does look bad, wires hanging everywhere since I'm testing, total mess, but a fast and fun mess.
 
What was top speed at 74v ?

the 19' wheel helps the controller, and you dont seem to be heavy.
find a hill 5-6 degrees, or something that'l draw 30A while maintaning under 20kph, test if that does any heat.

"badass, looking bad, wires hanging" lol
 
scriewy said:
What was top speed at 74v ?

the 19' wheel helps the controller, and you dont seem to be heavy.
find a hill 5-6 degrees, or something that'l draw 30A while maintaning under 20kph, test if that does any heat.

"badass, looking bad, wires hanging" lol

I calibrated the wheel size now, it's an 18.x" OD tire which is exactly what I wanted for this high speed motor. GPS top speed was 52.0 MPH on a 72V charge. I pulled the pack off the charger before it was fully charged because I wanted to play with the bike before it got dark.

I will try to get some video this weekend and do some hill climbing to see how the controller does.

I need to rebuild a good battery wiring harness for less resistance and put my 36 FET controller on the back at 100V and how it does.

I love riding this setup because it's so controllable compared to the 9.3kV motor in the 16" wheel I normally run. Because I'm not feeding it a lot of phase amps it doesn't want to wheelie much, but the pull is pretty consistent all the way to top speed. It's not brutal down low like like I'm use to, but I know that will change as soon as I swap out controllers and crank up the power. Right now I'm just testing out 18 FET controllers to see how well they are tolerating this low inductance motor. I honestly thought the controller would have let go at these power levels on this motor. The EB3xx boards must have a much better current limiting setup, I'm thinking even a real phase amp limiting setup where they measure it instead of guess it like the EB2xx boards did. I don't have proof of this yet, but the circuitry on the board makes me suspicious that they are using the FETs to measure the phase amps. Modding the shunt on the EB3xx boards has no effect on phase amps from what I can tell, only on the battery amps. One of my 18 FET IRFB4115 Lyen controllers has a 0.5mOhm shunt. Before and after the mod the regen current stayed the same, I also had the keep the phase amp settings the same unlike EB2xx boards with modded shunts where you need to reduce both phase and battery amps.
 
hey spinmag, i red these yesterday cos inductance bothers me at nights since 2011 when LFP tried explaning it.

en.m.wikiversity.org/wiki/Inductance

en.m.wikiversity.org/wiki/Inductors

still need to find what'll be the difference between 1 wire 4 turns and 4 wires 1 turn.
They say running variable currents dont change inductance through same coiled wire, only if feromagnetic core is placed inside the coiled wire inductance will depend on current.
 
Here is some video of the bike in action with 10kW of power being sucked out of the batteries by my 18 FET controller peaking and holding 150A during acceleration.

[youtube]I4L23E2VgMg [/youtube]
 
Tried to fix your youtube link

Either my phone is f***** or its not showing


http://youtu.be/I4L23E2VgMg
 
The embedding is working.

Nice 53mph riding gear! :shock:

..
 
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