Votol Em200-2sp Throttle problems

[Todd1572v]

Hi all, hopefully I am posting this in the correct place.

I've been having problems with my Votol Em200-2sp paired with a Qs138 v3 70h. Everything works fine until I let off of the throttle requiring me to come to a complete stop and to start moving again. I've run my Em150-2sp with qs138 v3 70h and the same controls and battery with no problems. I've confirmed that pole pairs and angle is set correctly which is 5 pairs and 60 degrees. I've tried swapping a known working throttle and have the same issue so I believe it's something having to do with the controller. When running with no load, it throttles up in conjunction of the throttle but when I left off the slightest, it cuts out, when the motor finally spools down and reaches 0 rpm the motor starts spinning again. I've watched to see if the led on the controller flashes or throws an error but apparently everything it running okay. I've even tried matching the setting from my em150 but I have the same problem. I appreciate any and all advice.

Thanks in advance.
Todd

 

[amberwolf]

There's probably different firmware between the two controllers, so identical settings probably wont' work; the same option may work differently in one vs the other.

I'm pretty sure there is another votol thread (probably the big one here Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers ) that covers a problem like this one, but I haven't poked around for it in a while.

Until I can find it (or if you do) this might be a helpful list of posts Search results for query: votol throttle

 

[Todd1572v]

Thanks for the response. I can't seem to find a similar issue. I have confirmed that the throttle is working correctly by plugging it into my 150-2sp and running it. It seems like a potential software safety or something but I cannot find anything in the software accordingly. The motor runs and sounds smooth, even has good power and the throttle works fine as long as I don't decrease it under around 25%. If you have any ideas for me to try, they would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[amberwolf]

It is probably something to do with regen and/or braking functions, rather than the throttle itself, but it may be a setting that's under the throttle heading.

Some controllers have the option for "slide" or "slip" regen, where throttle back engages braking. They may call it other things than those, like "throttle release regenerative brake"--what it does is engage braking when the throttle is rolled back far enough below the present demand level. Then there are usually other settings to control the amount of braking. If that amount is zero, then it wouldn't actually do any braking, but it might not reactivate throttle until after the system has stopped, or there may be some other setting that controls when it reactivates.

I'm sorry I don't know exactly what's causing the issue.

 

[Todd1572v]

Thanks for the suggestions and ideas. I've contacted the manufacturer and hope to hear a response. I'm thinking I might have set the ports incorrectly but I can't seem to find any pictures of em200/2sp ports settings online. I also notice a significant spark when plugging in the battery even with the controller off which is different from my em150/2sp that only sparks when the ignition e lock is on. If you happen to think of anything else to check I'm all ears. Thanks again

 

[j bjork]

You have your throttle voltages set up correctly? I dont remember if there is a low safety value to set up, or just a high?

 

[Todd1572v]

I believe so. I'm using the same throttle as with my Em-150/2sp and copied the throttle settings from it. There is a low protect function. Here are my settings,

Low protect 0.34
start voltage 1.27
end of the 4.31
high 4.81

I originally thought there might be a problem with the throttle so I swapped it for the one on my other bike but no luck. I played around with the throttle settings but all seems to be just fine. I even thought it might be a issue with my motor so I swapped my qs138 v3 from my other bike and the em200 controller is still having a problem. I'm starting to think there is an internal fault with it.

 

[larsb]

If you have a potentiometer throttle then that could be the issue. Have you tried it with a hall sensor throttle?

 

[Todd1572v]

If you have a potentiometer throttle then that could be the issue. Have you tried it with a hall sensor throttle?

I like that idea. I have no clue what type of throttle. I assume it's a hall sensor throttle as its a Surron e throttle clone. Attached is the throttle I'm using. Maybe I need a potentiometer style throttle?

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805227911038.html

 

[larsb]

can’t say based on the link but easy to verify. Hall sensor throttle signal starts from about 0.7V to about 4V, potentiometer throttle from 0-5V roughly.

Or you measure resistance from signal to ground and twist throttle. If it is constant then it’s a hall throttle, if it is linearly changing with twist it’s a potentiometer. I had issues similar to yours until i changed to hall throttle but at that time the throttle volt limits in the votol program didn’t work reliably.

 

[Todd1572v]

can’t say based on the link but easy to verify. Hall sensor throttle signal starts from about 0.7V to about 4V, potentiometer throttle from 0-5V roughly.

Or you measure resistance from signal to ground and twist throttle. If it is constant then it’s a hall throttle, if it is linearly changing with twist it’s a potentiometer. I had issues similar to yours until i changed to hall throttle but at that time the throttle volt limits in the votol program didn’t work reliably.

I've now tried a potentiometer, single hall and a dual hall throttle with the same problem. I think it's something to do with regen and port settings but I can't seem to find any picture of what to set the ports to. Thanks for the ideas as that helping me narrow down the problem.

 

[Dui ni shuo de dui]

Screenshots of all your settings would probably help a lot.
Might be something with the throttle rate of rise/rate of decline?

 

[Todd1572v]

Screenshots of all your settings would probably help a lot.
Might be something with the throttle rate of rise/rate of decline?

 

[Dui ni shuo de dui]

Rate of rise and rate of decline seem quite low, try sommeting like 250 and 250 to see if this helps (these settings set the time delay you get from the throttle, it's possible that if it is set too low it messes something up somehow).
But you said that you played with the settings a lot so I assume you tried changing these values already.
Also, I would untick the "automatic logout enadlers" box.

What I would do if I were you would be to physically disconnect every wire that is not absolutely necessary. Meaning that the only wires that should be connected to the controller should be:
-phase wires
-hall sensor wires
-throttle
-ignition
-Battery positive and negative

Disconnect all the other stuff, switch off all the other unnecessary functions like parking brake and so on, and set your default gear to high. This should limit the number of unknowns you're working with.

 

[Todd1572v]

Rate of rise and rate of decline seem quite low, try sommeting like 250 and 250 to see if this helps (these settings set the time delay you get from the throttle, it's possible that if it is set too low it messes something up somehow).
But you said that you played with the settings a lot so I assume you tried changing these values already.
Also, I would untick the "automatic logout enadlers" box.

What I would do if I were you would be to physically disconnect every wire that is not absolutely necessary. Meaning that the only wires that should be connected to the controller should be:
-phase wires
-hall sensor wires
-throttle
-ignition
-Battery positive and negative

Disconnect all the other stuff, switch off all the other unnecessary functions like parking brake and so on, and set your default gear to high. This should limit the number of unknowns you're working with.

Thanks for the ideas, I will try them out this weekend and report my findings.

 

[Todd1572v]

I appreciate all the different ideas to try although I've now come to the realization that the controller is probably just defective. The manufacturer said that all the port settings and configuration is the exact same as the em150-2sp and that my presets I imported from my other bike should work fine as I'm using all the same parts.

 

[Paulflieg]

Have you tried using the remote control in the debugging software instead of the throttle?

 

[Todd1572v]

Have you tried using the remote control in the debugging software instead of the throttle?

No, I haven't been able to get it to work. I do get the live screen read out but i can't engage the remote throttle. Whats the process to use it?

 

[Paulflieg]

For me, with German keyboard!
Switch to English keyboard layout!
Place the cursor behind the 0 in the error_count field, delete the 0!
Hold down the Shift key! Press ^ twice!
Now you can calibrate and use the remote control!
Be careful!

 

[Todd1572v]

For me, with German keyboard!
Switch to English keyboard layout!
Place the cursor behind the 0 in the error_count field, delete the 0!
Hold down the Shift key! Press ^ twice!
Now you can calibrate and use the remote control!
Be careful!

Thanks for the info. I have a Us keyboard so it's the ~ key. I successfully entered the debugging mode but the remote control slider doesn't work. buadrate is 115200 and CAN is unchecked. The display screen works and shows rpm, voltage and current live. When i turn CAN on, the display screen doesn't work. What do you think might be the problem? I'm also using windows 11.

 

[Paulflieg]

Remote klick, then take the slider...

 

[Paulflieg]

There are some videos on youtube, about the votol calibration mode

 

[Todd1572v]

There are some videos on youtube, about the votol calibration mode

I got the remote control to work and it revs! then once I switch it back to throttle it works perfectly but If I turn the controller off and back on it goes back to how it was, even after param write. Is there a way to save that change? This is very exciting because it is extremely close to working properly!