maydaverave
10 kW
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2009
- Messages
- 542
thanks for the input guys. Sorry to hijack the thread.DAND214 said:
Walmart Booster Batteries
- Thread starter Boyntonstu
- Start date
docw009
10 MW
OK, I bought three of these Everstarts last Winter, and I have kept one in my oldest car for emergency starts. Used it twice to get that car started. Works well for that. I was going to gift the other two for that purpose, but let's see how they run a bike.
My EC5 connector order got shipped today. Spent an amusing hour making a harness. A propane torch works better than my old weller solder gun.
They powered up. I guess these must be 3S (12.6) cells, so 37.7 is close to full charge. This is on a Bafang 350W 36 volt geared motor.
I rode around for a little over a mile and the display dropped to 2 bars. That's not good. I forgot to check the watt meter, so I don't have the voltage. Didn't look at the lights either. Maybe I didn't have them all fully charged. Will make sure all three are fully charged and try again later.
By the way, Boytonstu, do these things turn off? It seems that I always have 12 volts on the outputs. Damn, I hate that sparking when I connect the EC5 connectors. My regular batteries are Dolphins with power switches.
My EC5 connector order got shipped today. Spent an amusing hour making a harness. A propane torch works better than my old weller solder gun.
They powered up. I guess these must be 3S (12.6) cells, so 37.7 is close to full charge. This is on a Bafang 350W 36 volt geared motor.
I rode around for a little over a mile and the display dropped to 2 bars. That's not good. I forgot to check the watt meter, so I don't have the voltage. Didn't look at the lights either. Maybe I didn't have them all fully charged. Will make sure all three are fully charged and try again later.
By the way, Boytonstu, do these things turn off? It seems that I always have 12 volts on the outputs. Damn, I hate that sparking when I connect the EC5 connectors. My regular batteries are Dolphins with power switches.
RageNR
100 W
- Joined
- May 23, 2016
- Messages
- 216
docw009 said:
They are 3s, yes. 11.1v nominal, 12.6v charged. I am using mine on my 3000w Cyclone kit. They do not last long...
Yes, the EC5 terminals are ALWAYS LIVE. The + and - come right out of the battery and straight to the external casing. Look at the internal picture I posted.
With as small as your hub motor is, I am not sure if this is a problem or not. To me, it looks like you wires are wayy too small. The lower the voltage, the more amps are pulled.
Bigger wire is needed for more amps. You could be stressing the battery packs or the controller/motor. I'd use at least a 10, maybe an 8.
You can take one of the car battery clamps adapters that come with the booster and use the wire off that. Open that black box and the positive is a through wire. The negative is soldered to the internal relay board. I simply desoldered each end of the neg, soldered them together, then double shrink wrapped them. Just food for thought...
Boyntonstu
10 kW
By the way, Boytonstu, do these things turn off?
I turn them on/off using the handlebar throttle switch.
I turn them on/off using the handlebar throttle switch.
docw009
10 MW
7.2 miles in PAS1, 1130maH used at at average speed of 11.1 mph, Battery voltage went from 37.3 to 35.5 volts, which is 2 bars. I forgot that my Kt-LCD3 display can display voltage. Just put it together recently.
I thought the power switch on the Everstart was on/off, but is apparently only for the lamp. Always hot. Strange,Two of them charged to 12.7, but the third, which sat in a hot/cold car trunk all year is at 12.5. Under load, it maintains that .2 volt differential. If it doesn't I will exchange it as defective.
I precharged with a 100 ohm resistor til the cap side got to 37 volts, but there's still a small pop on inrush. As this is a temporary thing, I'm connecting and reconnecting.
PAS1 on my fatbike is just about the same as normal pedaling on a regular bike. It takes the edge off, and it's decent exercise. Wattmeter indicates about 50 mw used. My next trial will be at PAS2, where it feels like an ebike. This uses 2X the power though.
I used 14G wire. I agree with heavier wire in principle, but it's a small motor. I could save a few tenths of a volt in voltage drop with thick wire at the controllers max current of 17A. If I had a megawatt motor, That would be about a volt for a 2 megawatt motor, so would use heavier cable if I had a big motor. I think normal consumption here is like 3A average.
Tomorrow, I will be using these batteries to start my son's car. He hasn't used it since last summer and hasn't been able to charge the battery.
I thought the power switch on the Everstart was on/off, but is apparently only for the lamp. Always hot. Strange,Two of them charged to 12.7, but the third, which sat in a hot/cold car trunk all year is at 12.5. Under load, it maintains that .2 volt differential. If it doesn't I will exchange it as defective.
I precharged with a 100 ohm resistor til the cap side got to 37 volts, but there's still a small pop on inrush. As this is a temporary thing, I'm connecting and reconnecting.
PAS1 on my fatbike is just about the same as normal pedaling on a regular bike. It takes the edge off, and it's decent exercise. Wattmeter indicates about 50 mw used. My next trial will be at PAS2, where it feels like an ebike. This uses 2X the power though.
I used 14G wire. I agree with heavier wire in principle, but it's a small motor. I could save a few tenths of a volt in voltage drop with thick wire at the controllers max current of 17A. If I had a megawatt motor, That would be about a volt for a 2 megawatt motor, so would use heavier cable if I had a big motor. I think normal consumption here is like 3A average.
Tomorrow, I will be using these batteries to start my son's car. He hasn't used it since last summer and hasn't been able to charge the battery.
docw009
10 MW
Cheap/dirty anti-spark. Just a 38 ohm resistor with a single pole switch across it. I made it because the controller powered up funny one time. No more riding today. Brats and fireworks.
Boyntonstu
10 kW
docw009 said:
E= I X R
36V = I X 38 Ohms
I = 36/38 = 0.95 Amps
Are you sure that you want your batteries draining away at almost an Amp?
docw009
10 MW
Hi Boyonstu, this schematic should make it clear. Very little current draw if controller is off.
Actually, zero current after the capacitors charge and the controller is off. I thought the controller was pulling about 20 ma, but that turned out to be the wattmeter. So don't leave a wattmeter connected.
Disclaimer. Use at your own risk. Amateur e-bike enthusiasts here.
Actually, zero current after the capacitors charge and the controller is off. I thought the controller was pulling about 20 ma, but that turned out to be the wattmeter. So don't leave a wattmeter connected.
Disclaimer. Use at your own risk. Amateur e-bike enthusiasts here.
docw009
10 MW
After another 15 mile trial, where I just about exhausted the batteries, the wattmeter read 2.81 AH, or about 185 mAH per mile, what I typically use in pedal mode. I would conclude that these are about .9 AH batteries.
Total pack voltage went from 37.3 down to 32.8. The three Everstarts displayed three, two, and one red LED on display respectively. Seeing only one LED on one was enough to quit. They measured 11.0, 11.0 and 10.8 volts.
The low one is the same one that was .2 volts off freshly charged, so it likely has a weak cell and should go back for exchange. I already have a 36 volt battery so there's no need to continue. They do make a handy jump starter, emergency flashlight and USB power packs.
Total pack voltage went from 37.3 down to 32.8. The three Everstarts displayed three, two, and one red LED on display respectively. Seeing only one LED on one was enough to quit. They measured 11.0, 11.0 and 10.8 volts.
The low one is the same one that was .2 volts off freshly charged, so it likely has a weak cell and should go back for exchange. I already have a 36 volt battery so there's no need to continue. They do make a handy jump starter, emergency flashlight and USB power packs.
Boyntonstu
10 kW
My bike is at just under 1,200 miles on y 48 V Everstart Booster batteries.
That comes to 200 charge cycles.
I went 6 miles this morning. Started out at 50.6 and ended at 46.6.
All reds were on. No blue or a single blue was also on.
Average cell voltage was therefore 46.6/12 = 3.88 V
Last week I discovered that my tires were lower than when I pumped them up.
My batteries did not recover, they were working too hard with low pressure tires.
I now believe that 2,000 miles is possible.
A year of battery life is not too shabby.
That comes to 200 charge cycles.
I went 6 miles this morning. Started out at 50.6 and ended at 46.6.
All reds were on. No blue or a single blue was also on.
Average cell voltage was therefore 46.6/12 = 3.88 V
Last week I discovered that my tires were lower than when I pumped them up.
My batteries did not recover, they were working too hard with low pressure tires.
I now believe that 2,000 miles is possible.
A year of battery life is not too shabby.
spdas
100 W
docw009 said:
Looks to me that your controller is always on, charged through the resister? Why not leave the controller on all the time then?
Lurkin
100 kW
No fire in here? I'm disappointed :lol: Looks like its worked out fairly well...
DAND214
10 MW
Lurkin said:
It appears that it worked out a lot better than most thought
Dan
Boyntonstu
10 kW
Just got back from another 6 mile ride. The average cell voltage was 3.89V.
This was interesting because it had improved.
I noticed that the charge V had been falling over the last few weeks from 51.0 V to 50.5 V after a 6 hour charge.
For curiosity, I turned on the charger again and I noticed that one Walmart Booster had some LED blinking.
Blinking indicates charging.
I turned on the charger for a few more hours, a lo and behold, my charge voltage went back up to 50.9 V. Wow!
These batteries have 200 charges and they have given me 8 months of pleasure riding them over 1,200 miles.
I don't goose the throttle much, but when I do, there is a lot of pep remaining.
My experience with the Walmart Boosters has been positive.
This was interesting because it had improved.
I noticed that the charge V had been falling over the last few weeks from 51.0 V to 50.5 V after a 6 hour charge.
For curiosity, I turned on the charger again and I noticed that one Walmart Booster had some LED blinking.
Blinking indicates charging.
I turned on the charger for a few more hours, a lo and behold, my charge voltage went back up to 50.9 V. Wow!
These batteries have 200 charges and they have given me 8 months of pleasure riding them over 1,200 miles.
I don't goose the throttle much, but when I do, there is a lot of pep remaining.
My experience with the Walmart Boosters has been positive.
docw009
10 MW
spdas said:
The controller on this bike draws less than 100 uA when turned off, and if I left it turned on, it powers off in 5 minutes if nothing is happening. I have another bike that is always on. If I didn't turn that one off, someone could bump the throttle and the bike would start up.
Until I started fooling around with these Everstarts, I used batteries with on/off switches, so I never saw those irritating zaps when connecting up a battery.
Boyntonstu
10 kW
1251 mile report after my second 6 mile ride today with a recharge in between rides.
Average cell Voltage = 3.875
Not too shabby.
Average cell Voltage = 3.875
Not too shabby.
nutnspecial
10 MW
I just went looking for these for my most recent build, hopefully soon to complete. They list as 'clearance' but at $40 a pc, plus shipping.
So instead of 160$ plus shipping I ordered 3x 4s 16ah multistars for a total of 162$. 4 or 5x the capacity @ same price, though they don't come with a charger.
Would have loved to have tried these though @ ~10$ a pc.
Nice usage/mileage so far! !
So instead of 160$ plus shipping I ordered 3x 4s 16ah multistars for a total of 162$. 4 or 5x the capacity @ same price, though they don't come with a charger.
Would have loved to have tried these though @ ~10$ a pc.
Nice usage/mileage so far! !
Boyntonstu
10 kW
nutspecial said:
Link please.
nutnspecial
10 MW
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__72325__Multistar_High_Capacity_4S_16000mAh_Multi_Rotor_Lipo_Pack_US_Warehouse_.html
I will likely switch the connectors to 5.5 bullets (female/male)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Pairs-5-5mm-Gold-Plated-Bullet-Banana-Plug-Connector-for-RC-Battery-/231583189471?hash=item35eb6f09df:g:u88AAOSwgQ9VyV3I
by soldering with a torch, and will bulk charge with two MW hrps
(about 1hr from empty to full)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MEAN-WELL-HRP-300-24-NSFP-HRP30024-/391476933389?hash=item5b25d7f30d:i:391476933389
and a battery medics or two for balancing and monitoring. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__41170__HobbyKing_8482_Battery_Medic_System_2S_6S_US_Warehouse_.html
I will likely switch the connectors to 5.5 bullets (female/male)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Pairs-5-5mm-Gold-Plated-Bullet-Banana-Plug-Connector-for-RC-Battery-/231583189471?hash=item35eb6f09df:g:u88AAOSwgQ9VyV3I
by soldering with a torch, and will bulk charge with two MW hrps
(about 1hr from empty to full)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MEAN-WELL-HRP-300-24-NSFP-HRP30024-/391476933389?hash=item5b25d7f30d:i:391476933389
and a battery medics or two for balancing and monitoring. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__41170__HobbyKing_8482_Battery_Medic_System_2S_6S_US_Warehouse_.html
I finally bit the bullet and nought 4 of these for $120.00.
Can anyone please advise me on exactly what else I need to get this project going? I see that I need some ec5 connectors (how many?) what gauge wire?
I'm running an Aosom 48v 1000watt rear hub motor.
Anyone have a thorough DIY or a simple wiring diagram. I am very hew to this.
Thanks in advance!
Mike
Can anyone please advise me on exactly what else I need to get this project going? I see that I need some ec5 connectors (how many?) what gauge wire?
I'm running an Aosom 48v 1000watt rear hub motor.
Anyone have a thorough DIY or a simple wiring diagram. I am very hew to this.
Thanks in advance!
Mike
docw009
10 MW
Seriously, I'd return those packs to Walmart unless you're into really short rides. They're too small for 1000W motors.
Boyntonstu
10 kW
docw009 said:
My motor is 1,000 Watts.
For my purposes, I do not consider 6-12 miles short rides.
Also, for 120 bucks (plus a 2 year $12 warranty) the Boosters are great for a beginner to learn about Electric bikes, wiring, soldering, and battery performance.
Simple, no other parts required, plug and play.
The Walmart Booster experience will not be wasted time or money.
What would you recommend instead?
nutnspecial
10 MW
Well said, however they're only a step away from just doing more economical naked lipo (which many here started with). That is, if you think it's worth it to figure out what parallel and series strings may be needed, then make protection/cases and harnesses, and figure out charging and proper use.
. . . I guess they're a few steps away :wink: if you don't need alot of range or discharge rate. These would actually be perfect for my neighbor (and many) that wants into ebikes @ <kw, can't afford a decent pack, and doesn't want to mess with naked lipo!
My disclaimer though is: it could easily turn into a 'hoverboard' situation with alot of people using/abusing them.
It's still not confirmed if the bms protects charging of overdischarged cells.
skeetab5780
1 MW
I still feel like these are not the way to go. They are only 4ah polymer cells. Granted they have a warrant that most don't buy into, so the only plus is they are easy to charge. But you could easily charge a echo tool pack too.
There are Echo 58v 4ah packs all over the internet for $50 part# CBP-58V4AH
They are smaller but don't have a built in flashlight so you may get lost in the dark
There are Echo 58v 4ah packs all over the internet for $50 part# CBP-58V4AH
They are smaller but don't have a built in flashlight so you may get lost in the dark
DAND214
10 MW
You are doing better than most. You have the hundreds of links?
Dan
