What controller for Q100H 201rpm?

[knut7]

I've been running my bike with Q100 201rpm and S06S (integrated in bottle battery) for a while, but for various reasons I needed a new motor and got the Q100H 201rpm.

Q100+S06S was quiet, as fast as can be expected and had good torque.

Then I swapped the motor, Q100H+s06s:
a little loss of torque, more top speed, quite a bit of noise and vibration felt through the pedals.

So I tried another controller, which is my current setup, Q100H+ku65:
Lost a lot of torque, not as noisy as the s06s, but still more noise than I'm used to.

I prefer the LCD1 display over the 810, can I expect the standard S06S to perform better than the bottle battery integrated one? What do you recommend I try with the Q100H?

If all else fails I might just move the motor internals of my Q100 wheel over to my Q100H wheel.

 

[bowlofsalad]

This is a question that I have been pondering for some time. To my understanding, S06S is some kind of simulated sinewave which won't perform or sound as good as a genuine sinewave controller.

I can't imagine there is going to be much of a difference internally between the S06S that goes in a bottle battery and one that does not, but I could be wrong. I don't know why your q100h seems the way it does, especially in combination with your S06S. Initially, geared motors are louder, some imperfections in the gears are worn away as the gears are used, so maybe it'll quiet down some more. But logically, I would expect the Q100h to make less noise with a S06S versus a ku65. It sounds like there could be an issue with the halls/phase, are you -absolutely- certain everything with the plugs and wiring are as they should be?

Adaptto, sabvoton and lebowski are some options I have found so far for controllers, at least ones I like (sinewave). The adaptto seems kind of hard to get and pretty expensive, the sabvoton seems fairly expensive as well, and aimed at being used for much larger motors. The lebowski controller isn't really something readily available, I think you can buy a chip from him and build the rest yourself with his plans/instruction.

Maybe a http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/3rd-party/infineon.html with a cycle analyst would be a viable option if you really want something else?

 

[knut7]

Thanks, nice to know what's to be expected from these controllers. I guess I'll have another look at the hall wiring. I'm absolutely sure the wires are paired up so the colors are matching, but I think I've read the wires could be wired incorrectly to the motor.

I just read this one and will move the wires about soon.
http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/Determining_the_Wiring_for_a_Brushless_Motor

 

[d8veh]

These motors are relatively high speed. They don't work with all controllers. You need one suitable for high-speed commutation. The old KU63 and KU65 were always very reliable. I have two Q100Hs running happily with them. I haven't tried the new ones, but they should be OK. They don't work with the older Infineons presumably because the commutation speed was too low. Have the newer Infineons been speeded up?

The bottle battery controllers are completely different to the aluminium box ones. One's round and the other rectangular. I don't know whether they have the same main components in a different layout.

I tried a bottle battery S06P with a 328 rpm Q100C. It was fine up to half -speed, but then it went noisy and rough like the timing was out.

All versions of the motor have always been noisy and rough when running sensorless.

I had some other controllers that I got from Kevin Fang at BTN on Aliexpress. The 328 rpm Q100s run amazingly smooth and quiet with them even at very low speed. The controllers work with and without hall sensors. On the outside, they're marked www.chinazipu.com ZPLCD 306017. There's no internal markings. Their website is very slow on my PC.

 

[knut7]

Had another ride today, my current setup (ku65+q100h) didn't get me up hills I could go 10kph throttle only with the previous setup (s06s+q100), I actually came to a complete stop on 3 different hills. At the last stop the bike died altogether, assumed it was another burned fuse.

But it wasn't


The fuse was intact, but no voltage over + and -, opened up the battery


Soldering that thing on was a pain, and I guess I touched something cause now it's on constantly.


Now I'm running Q100H+s06s again, noisy, but at least I've got lots of torque. Might just reinstall the old motor/wheel, unless I damaged the freewheel threads too badly when I tried open the motor up, and failed...

Right now a Haibike sounds tempting, or Raleigh. But I guess I should try some more controllers. A standard external S06S is on the list, and the ZPLCD 306017. Not able to find that one on google, nor on the chinazapu-website since it's in Chinese Will send them an email.

 

[Jonathan in Hiram]

Allowing the bike to grind to a complete stop on a hill at full throttle is one of the worst things you can do to the entire electric power system, motor, battery, controller and bms.

Your ground could have come loose just because it got so hot the solder melted.

Will your battery take a charge now that it's "on" all the time?

 

[knut7]

I exaggerated a bit, it only came to a complete halt once, the 2 other times I started pedaling but it would have stalled. It didn't feel good at all :-o This could be the reason the Gnd came lose, but the hour and a half of single track 2 days ago could have something to do with it as well. It was pretty rough riding and the battery fell out on one occasion, even though it was locked in place. So the battery was already pretty shaken up. And when I installed the LED810 display some 4 days ago, the panel lights didn't shut down when I switched off the battery. Didn't try to ride the bike with the battery off, but I guess the error had already occurred then.

The battery takes charge it seems, was a bit nervous plugging it in and got out of the place quickly I was wondering if it finished charging a bit soon, but hard to tell, guess I'll know if range drops.

Anyway, I got tired of my new Q100H back wheel that cost me way too much to have built. So I tightened up and reinstalled the old Q100 china built wheel along with the S06S. It's soo silent, at speed and not too much load the tire noise is louder than the motor. And the torque is way better. Seems I'm happy again, as soon as I forget about the $ spent on the Q100H wheel

 

[markz]

Is simulated sine the same as simulated torque?
Reading the specs off bms batterys website.

Edit.
Must be, says this "Torque Simulation Sine Wave "

 

[EV_Ron]

knut7 et al,

I know some will never see this, and perhaps it's a bit of a hijack (my apologies), but...

After reading over a month on friction drive and more recently for about 2 weeks all your outstanding posts about the Q100, I had to thank you for your excellent questions and all your persistent attempts at combining hardware and moreso for posting your results. I just placed my BMSBatt Q100H 260 RPM order: $230 +$160 shipping! Both S06S and KU63/65 controller, LCD-3 and LED 800 displays, 3 throttle types, extra spokes, spoke wrench, brake sensor, 8 and 12 magnet PAS, wheel speed sensor. I hope I won't get it and build it and say I could have had a V8 Q100 201! (I know you like its torque).

I also want to thank all who reduced significantly the chances I would buy kits, parts, and pieces I'd be unhappy with. Particularly, in the area of front hub drive, thanks a lot to dveh8! for your mass of thorough answers on sine-wave controllers, torque arms, over-volting the Q100 24V, and your recommendations on trueing, sensors, ... well, so many things. Also to motomech for detailed answers on Q100s, torque, speed, current and voltage between 201 vs 260, vs 328, LCDs/LED monitor/controllers, the Hidden ebrake sensor, torque arms etc...

And in the area of friction drive I am thankful to (is it Thanksgiving yet?? spinningmagnets, dogman, dr_frost_dk, adrian, augidog, kepler, bambooster (ingenious re-use in your build!), recumpence, and hillhater. And, almost forgot EVTodd (from whom I borrowed for my handle)
I very nearly went with the friction drive-FD motor/RC controller and even had a strong, low cost, simple hinge/swingarm prepared that many could re-produce simply and cheaply with local hardware store components. But with my intended start/stop use with moderate-strong acceleration I decided the friction drive was not best suited, even with soft start. Still thinking about it, though.

Finally, about batteries. Because I love to re-use stuff, I settled on the 10S/11S Greenworks 40V G-Max LIMn batts: two of them just like matt91286. My 16" Greenworks saw has aggressively cut through 2 95' pine trees that fell a year ago, and once I have a 2d 4Ah battery they'll be powering my bike, and once I get a Twin Greenworks mower they'll be powering it as a tagalong mower to my 60" Bunton mower. thanks to AnimeEd, MattGruber, blueovalguy, pixelpusher (I bought 2 of those battery inserts you linked to!), dogman (again), recumbents, skeetab5780, ggtronic, and matt91286 for the G-max battery mounting idea! using the G-max cuts the cost of my batteries by 66% because I can use them in 3 products!

Bottom line, to all who keep Endless_Sphere current and dynamic and charged with high voltage questions, comments, and answers, well, I salute you and thank you for your service to engineering, community support, and international trade! You all are amazing.

 

[knut7]

Hey Ron, nice to hear, feedback like this assures me all my posting is worth it

I'm sure you'll be happy with the Q100H. The noise of the Q100H+s06s wasn't that bad, I was just so unfortunate to have experienced the Q100 first. Once you're up to speed the noise isn't very noticeable. And the Q100H is a faster motor, that wasn't important to me though. Since you're running 40V the Q100H will have more torque than it did in my setup. Good luck, should be fun, both building and riding.

 

[EV_Ron]

knut7,
Just received my Q100H 260 RPM kit yesterday after 5 weeks! Long wait, lots of Styrofoam bits- it was literally like Christmas- opening packages with [strike]millions[/strike] thousands of Styrofoam snow flakes . Just a heads up to all who buy from BMS/China... It took nearly 4 weeks for them to prepare it (because of National Day 7-day holiday and I'd guess high demand??), about 6 days to get maybe 100 miles from their little island to Hong Kong, and then maybe 36 hours to get from Honk Kong to me in Jacksonville! But, it was pretty well packed with lots of smaller boxes inside to excitedly open . Will start with the 8-magnet Halls sensor, S06S motor controller and LCD3 meter, then try the 890 and 810 LED meters. Hopefully your many excellent posts will keep me from posting with other emoticons.
Ron

 

[EV_Ron]

Completed install and initial no-load testing of my Q100H with S06S motor controller, LCD3 system controller, PAS, and Hidden Wire Brake Sensor on a 14-year old MTB. If normal voice level is 55-60 dB, then the motor might be 55 dB up to 11 km/h (as displayed on the LCD3), no odd noises. Then as I slowly pass 11 km/h it seems to change gear(?) and noise level drops a little- but the noise drop could be simply a drop in power level as it gets past start-up current. It sounds like what you'd expect... nylon on nylon gears. Above maybe 20 km/h the noise level rises to maybe 56-57 dB at 39/40 km/h - not loud but you can tell it's working. Still suspended off the ground, will secure the wires and try to do a road-test while listening for noise. Bottom line, this Q100H + S06S is good so far. (That's with an 11S/40V battery, topped off at 42.1V, and LCD3 showing 39.9-40.4V while running full acceleration-40km/h.)

 

[friendly1uk]

It's niggling me that the OP swapped from A 201 motor to another 201 motor and found lots less torque and a higher top speed. Why is the second motor believed to be a 201 not a 328 or 260? Is it stickered up?

 

[d8veh]

That's with an 11S/40V battery, topped off at 42.1V, and LCD3 showing 39.9-40.4V while running full acceleration-40km/h.

Are you using lipos? If so, that sounds too low. Charging voltage should be 46.2v. If you want to be conservative. maybe 45.1v (4.1v per cell). By the time they get down to about 39.6v, there's very little left, so you run the risk of dropping into the danger zone.

 

[EV_Ron]

d8veh,

It's LiMn chemistry, a Greenworks GMAX battery. Originally charged to 41.8, now after 50 charge cycles it's 40.8V (though I do now hear a barely audible 120/240 Hz whine so could be the charger), and at full discharge it's about 36.5V "nominal" voltage, so 10S.

 

[d8veh]

That's right. It's a normal 10A 36v battery then. 40.8v sounds a bit low though. It must be going out of balance. Try leaving it on charge overnight after the charger light has gone green.

 

[EV_Ron]

After using it today I recharged it the last 2-3 hours and it's back 41.6/41.7V, which is why I came to post. I may have used it a bit yesterday but forgotten when I took the voltage. And if not, then that kind of validates the last line of your post...leave it on the charger a bit longer.

Have a good weekend.