What exactly do torque washers do...

[Propofolboy]

Hi everyone,

I have a pretty basic question here.. I've tried to search for answer but its never really clear...

How exactly do torque washers make an ebike safer. I can understand how a torque arm works, because it is bolted or welded to part of your fork. But a torque washer just has a folded flange..

Some of the torque washers I have seen do not even have a flange sit in the dropout, they are just bent slightly and hover above the dropout. I can't see how these would do anything?? The well made ones fold right into the dropout, and I suppose I could see how these might stop some spinout.. but they certainly wouldn't stop your axel from dropping out if it does spins out..

Anyone ??

 

[fechter]

Torque washers are an alternative to torque arms. The inside hole of the washer is not round and is supposed to fit the flats on the axle. The tab on the washer locks into the dropout or fork somewhere. It is supposed to prevent the axle from spinning. I've seen plenty of pictures where they were not installed properly. These are generally only used on smaller motors.

 

[aroundqube]

http://www.nord-lock.com/bolted-category/videos/

 

[Propofolboy]

I think your confusing friction/wedge washers (Nord-Locks) with torque washers (tabbed washers).
In particular the cheaper tabbed washers with a minimal fold which I don't see providing any amount of safety!

 

[2WheelsMovesTheSoul]

They give noobs who buy those cheapy Chinesey $159 e-bike kits a false sense of safety.

Should be tossed into garbage can upon arrival and replaced with torque arms.

 

[mark5]

Some of the torque washers I have seen do not even have a flange sit in the dropout, they are just bent slightly and hover above the dropout. I can't see how these would do anything?? The well made ones fold right into the dropout, and I suppose I could see how these might stop some spinout.. but they certainly wouldn't stop your axel from dropping out if it does spins out..

People here file their dropouts so that the axle, and washer tab, sits deeper in them. You can find examples if you search. Example:

Re: Hub motor doesn't sit flush in dropouts
by d8veh
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=43786#p639052

 

[Chalo]

Torque washers are proven for use with internal gear hubs. For any given quality and fit, e-bike torque washers should have at least 25% greater holding capacity than internal gear "non-turn" washers-- because they're 10mm across flats rather than 8mm.

If your e-bike has electric power equivalent to one human power, torque washers should be fine, as long as they fit well. The more torque you have above that amount, the more you should consider using something thicker and better anchored than a tabbed washer.

 

[Propofolboy]

Awesome thanks.
My 'BS meter' was going off when I saw the torque washers included in my CNE kit (1000W, 48V, steel fat bike forks).

I used two torque arms from Grin instead (the V2 version).
I'm still worried actually as the torque arms have a bolt connecting the two pieces... I think I'm going to get one of them welded in the angle that it fits on the bike for extra security..

Thanks everyone.

 

[Chalo]

Keep in mind that no matter how long or strong your torque arm is, it can't take more torque than the little bit of axle it fits on. Any coaster brake hub can withstand more reaction torque than a hub motor, because hub motors are using a much smaller and sorrier interface to the torque arm.

 

[Propofolboy]

Fair enough!

What I visualize in my head (and may not actually be real), is that if I get a fork spinout, and then my axel drops out I could have a pretty major crash. I'd rather NOT crash and if my axel doesn't fall out with a spinout (ie by having a welded torque bar), then I might destroy the forks and wiring, but I won't die!

 

[wturber]

If the OP has a powerful front hub he should probably search for the threads that discuss the filing down of "lawyer lips" so that washer, torque arms and nuts all compress flush and do not introduce their own stresses on the fork drop-out.

And I think everyone should look up the thread where Justin's/Grin's testing show how important having the proper nut torque is to preventing spin-outs etc.

 

[Propofolboy]

Agreed! I live a few blocks from Grin (ebikes.ca), and there torque arm kits have the c-washers that clear the lawyers lips. So I have things snugged down about as well as I can. The thread about the testing is very good.

 

[amberwolf]

There's also a Torque Arm Picture Thread that may help with visualizing some things.

 

[MadRhino]

They are washing the torque?

If you ride hard and fast, if you ride powerful motors, or if you are the kind to neglect maintenance inspections...

Then you need more than torque washers. Serious builders are making bolt-on trough axle torque plates, or pinch drop-outs, out of thick solid material. See, the kind that are safe even without the axle nuts. :wink:

 

[Propofolboy]

So do you feel welding the two pieces of the torque arm together would have no additional benefit over bolting them?

 

[Chalo]

So do you feel welding the two pieces of the torque arm together would have no additional benefit over bolting them?

It could make the effective lever longer, depending on its arrangement when welded. If the distance from the axle center to whatever bolt you're using to anchor with is greater than the distance to the "elbow" of the torque arm, then welding the torque arm makes it longer. It doesn't change the fit on the axle, and it could weaken the metal.

 

[Propofolboy]

All things being equal then - with the torque arm bolted onto the fender eyelet.. Is there any functional difference between welding the two plates together vs just having a really tight bolt holding the plates together. It doesn't change the length of the lever in any way...

 

[999zip999]

I use those torque washers for spacers after I grind off that stupid tab.

 

[999zip999]

If your wires don't stick out the end of the axle I would put one of those dark arms above on each side. No front tire at 28 miles an hour I'd rather lose my rear tire that is.