o00scorpion00o said:parmenps said:how am I connect these batteries: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=19716
on the mac 500w
what do I have to buy for it
Thanks for your help
You would be better off to get the 5S packs, less wiring.
Connect 3 in series for 15S and another 3 in series and connect the 2 15S packs in parallel for a total capacity of 16S.
You have to make up your own wiring harness.
Seriously though I think the emissions free pack should be the way to go, a lot less complicated, a lot longer life for a commute, no fire risk, no newbie mistake risk.
But those are the probably the best assembled packs you can buy at the moment. Ping batteries are good, but they are not able to supply a lot of current for long.
yes you're right I'll go buy this battery then http://www.emissions-free.com/catalog/i29.html
because the battery should not stand out on me bike
You would need at least 2 x 48 volt 20ah ping batteries in parallel to run the mac 1000 watt 8T to reduce stress on the battery, where the emissions-free packs are much better for small packs and high discharge.
If you want a lot of range the ping batteries would make more sense and would be more battery for less money, but you would need 2x 20ah packs, and they weigh 9.9 kg each for the 48V 20ah. and go for 2x 5 amp chargers to charge in half the time.
what is the best e-bike kit??
- Thread starter parmenps
- Start date
o00scorpion00o
100 kW
Just think of the range you want first before you buy anything because the emissions-free pack is only 11.5 ah and if climbing while
pulling a lot of weight, will drain the battery a lot quicker.
So 2x 20ah 48V pings might end up the best choice. It's really down to the range you want and how fast you want to go.
pulling a lot of weight, will drain the battery a lot quicker.
So 2x 20ah 48V pings might end up the best choice. It's really down to the range you want and how fast you want to go.
wesnewell
100 GW
*I* would use lipo from HK. I don't use a watt meter. I do use a volt meter to monitor pack voltage. I've got a Hyperion 1420i charger, but it's just one choice of many you could use.parmenps said:
o00scorpion00o
100 kW
The Ping or emissions free packs are plug and play where the LiPo is a lot more complicated and can't be stored in the house.
If the OP has room on the bike maybe 2 ping's would be best for range and for the power when they need it.
40 ah of ping is nearly 20 kgs though, but would give a lot of range, where the emissions free pack is good for high discharge current, but would give a lot shorter range than the pings. LiPo is great but you got to do a lot of research on it first and know it needs to be looked after and takes much more effort than the ping, or emissions free pack.
LiPo has it's advantages and I love it though I don't think I would recommend it for first time builds ?
A heavy bike going up a steep hill would consume a good 50-60 wh/mi giving a range of about 35 miles from the 2x pings.
The emissions free pack would give a range of only about 10-12 miles. But if the hill isn't too long you might just get away with it.
If the OP has room on the bike maybe 2 ping's would be best for range and for the power when they need it.
40 ah of ping is nearly 20 kgs though, but would give a lot of range, where the emissions free pack is good for high discharge current, but would give a lot shorter range than the pings. LiPo is great but you got to do a lot of research on it first and know it needs to be looked after and takes much more effort than the ping, or emissions free pack.
LiPo has it's advantages and I love it though I don't think I would recommend it for first time builds ?
A heavy bike going up a steep hill would consume a good 50-60 wh/mi giving a range of about 35 miles from the 2x pings.
The emissions free pack would give a range of only about 10-12 miles. But if the hill isn't too long you might just get away with it.
benend
100 mW
This is all good info - I'm pretty much in the same boat and don't know what I need. If there's a good overview of what is needed for full bike kits, maybe someone could post that somewhere. I haven't found any that I understand.
Many of the kit sites have "options" for things I don't understand. What would be nice is something like a full run down of 3 different kinds of ebike kits and ALL that is required - not that they would be THE kits to buy - but it would give newbies like me a point of reference. Many of the kits don't mention a charger, so I assume they don't come with one - but I'll need one.
I find that looking at others' builds helps in this direction. Is there a thread or site that has builds with photos and parts rundowns (and costs)? I know the options are limitless, but it would help people like me, who know nothing, get an idea of what we want to do and how much it will cost.
Many of the kit sites have "options" for things I don't understand. What would be nice is something like a full run down of 3 different kinds of ebike kits and ALL that is required - not that they would be THE kits to buy - but it would give newbies like me a point of reference. Many of the kits don't mention a charger, so I assume they don't come with one - but I'll need one.
I find that looking at others' builds helps in this direction. Is there a thread or site that has builds with photos and parts rundowns (and costs)? I know the options are limitless, but it would help people like me, who know nothing, get an idea of what we want to do and how much it will cost.
Racer_X
1 kW
There are several problems with that kit.
1. proprietary connections = You can not upgrade the controller or connect a cycle analyst. You can not trouble shoot with Lyen Ebike tester.
2. No 3 speed, No Cruise Control, No Regenerative braking.
3. They are located in the US, if you have a problem with that kit (which happened to a friend of mine in Sweden) You have to ship it back and that will cost you 100 Euros. If there was nothing wrong it will cost you another 100 Euros to ship it back to you.
If you where in the US that would be a great kit and they have great customer service, but your NOT. If something comes out wrong you will be sorry.
You have to look for a vendor in the EU area or Get a kit from Emission Free who is in China and the price is worth the risk.
Here is a pic of the connections
By the way, I was lucky I bought a kit from them in 2009, The first generation of the exact link you posted and it it still working out for me.
1. proprietary connections = You can not upgrade the controller or connect a cycle analyst. You can not trouble shoot with Lyen Ebike tester.
2. No 3 speed, No Cruise Control, No Regenerative braking.
3. They are located in the US, if you have a problem with that kit (which happened to a friend of mine in Sweden) You have to ship it back and that will cost you 100 Euros. If there was nothing wrong it will cost you another 100 Euros to ship it back to you.
If you where in the US that would be a great kit and they have great customer service, but your NOT. If something comes out wrong you will be sorry.
You have to look for a vendor in the EU area or Get a kit from Emission Free who is in China and the price is worth the risk.
Here is a pic of the connections
By the way, I was lucky I bought a kit from them in 2009, The first generation of the exact link you posted and it it still working out for me.
o00scorpion00o
100 kW
parmenps said:
The motor kit itself would probably be fine, but the batteries being lead acid are crap. They are much heavier than Lithium.
You wouldn't get very far on 8ah of lead acid, it's not the same as 8ah of lithium, basically from what I know of lead acid is to expect half the capacity and they have maybe 100 charge cycles max. Maybe other lead acid experts would be abale to advise you better.
I still think you are much better off with the 1000 watt geared hub from emissions free.com. better torque for less power.
Check out these batteries
http://www.bmsbattery.com/48v/249-48v-10ah-lithium-ion-electric-bicycle-battery-pack.html
If they are 7 kgs weight like they say, then they are good value for money, but they are not as powerful as the emissions free batteries I don't know if they are reliable, some people on ES have them and they work. The 20ah would give you good range at 20-25 mph.
if getting the bms battery or ping battery You would have to tell cell man to limit your controller to 20 amps or get the program cable and program it yourself to the capability of which battery you get.
The emissions free battery would give you a lot more power for better torque for acceleration and hill climbing but less range
It's all rather complicated choosing the right system.
OH, you need torque arms or plates to stop your axle spinning in the drop outs!
o00scorpion00o
100 kW
Racer_X said:
Well spotted about the connections.
The cycle analyst is very useful and in my opinion, essential and the direct cycle analyst plugs straight into the emissions free controller, just make sure that is the case before you buy!
o00scorpion00o
100 kW
benend said:
Most of the kits that include batteries include the charger.
There are endless build threads here and plenty of battery information in the battery section. I would strongly advise reading and researching for a long time before you buy.
We always end up buying something cheaper but always end up spending much more than we had thought we ever would. The first kit is always going to last a short time!
This is a very addictive hobby I don't think anyone will disagree!
wesnewell
100 GW
http://www.ebay.nl/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570&_nkw=48v+1000w
dogman dan
1 PW
There is a large section called reviews, where we put the reviews. Most common kits have several reviews from riders.
There is a thing called a stand alone CA, I have two, since I have multiple types of kits.
Can't use the lyen tester? Why, are you incapable of rigging up an adapter? Awkward sure, but not impossible.
There is a thing called a stand alone CA, I have two, since I have multiple types of kits.
Can't use the lyen tester? Why, are you incapable of rigging up an adapter? Awkward sure, but not impossible.
o00scorpion00o
100 kW
I think the biggest problem you will have is not going over your budget of 700 dollars!
If you got the bmsbattery 48volt 20ah totals 544 Dollars shipped to Ireland, so might be a little cheaper for you. I think that's the best battery at a reasonable cost to take you to 30 mph. It won't give you huge acceleration, but if you have not tried electric bikes before it will make you smile. I would get the 12 fet controller, but get cell-man to limit the current to 20 amps to protect your battery. That way, whenever you can afford to or your battery dies, all you need to do is get a more powerful battery and turn the amps up in the controller for much better acceleration.
If range isn't a major issue and you are willing to reduce speed or pedal for a bit then I would get the triangle battery and bag from emissions-free and you will have a fairly powerful bike that will climb steep hills and have good acceleration.
To be honest I would always recommend the better quality components, but in the end it all comes down to what you can afford.
I know I love LiPo, but after spending money on a balance charger, charger for bulk charging, cell monitors. It would probably have been as cheap to get the emissions-free battery from cell-man and I could have put it in my frame and not rear rack. If I was commuting then probably the bmsbattery would be the way I would go, I can't vouch for their reliability but a few people have them and seem happy enough. The longer lasting pack would probably be the emissions-free pack!
Batteries are the biggest expense for us e-bikers and there are 0 signs of prices coming down any time soon!
Unfortunately living in Europe means a lot more expense for anything we buy, either we can get it made here but it's very expensive or we have to import it paying high shipping charges, either way, we loose!
If you got the bmsbattery 48volt 20ah totals 544 Dollars shipped to Ireland, so might be a little cheaper for you. I think that's the best battery at a reasonable cost to take you to 30 mph. It won't give you huge acceleration, but if you have not tried electric bikes before it will make you smile. I would get the 12 fet controller, but get cell-man to limit the current to 20 amps to protect your battery. That way, whenever you can afford to or your battery dies, all you need to do is get a more powerful battery and turn the amps up in the controller for much better acceleration.
If range isn't a major issue and you are willing to reduce speed or pedal for a bit then I would get the triangle battery and bag from emissions-free and you will have a fairly powerful bike that will climb steep hills and have good acceleration.
To be honest I would always recommend the better quality components, but in the end it all comes down to what you can afford.
I know I love LiPo, but after spending money on a balance charger, charger for bulk charging, cell monitors. It would probably have been as cheap to get the emissions-free battery from cell-man and I could have put it in my frame and not rear rack. If I was commuting then probably the bmsbattery would be the way I would go, I can't vouch for their reliability but a few people have them and seem happy enough. The longer lasting pack would probably be the emissions-free pack!
Batteries are the biggest expense for us e-bikers and there are 0 signs of prices coming down any time soon!
Unfortunately living in Europe means a lot more expense for anything we buy, either we can get it made here but it's very expensive or we have to import it paying high shipping charges, either way, we loose!
Racer_X
1 kW
Like o00scorpion00o said it is not going to be cheap, but what is cheap in Europe anyway. Personally I paid for my first ebike in the first 7 months. I saved a total of 700 Euros by comuting in an ebike and that is how much my 9c motor and my ping 48v 10ah battery cost. Instead of driving my car, buying gas, paying for parking or taking the metro etc. etc.
So if your serious about this you will have to raise your budget.
These two companies are in your country. One of them offer the Crystalite the Other offers the Magic Pie III. You would have to do research to see which one is best for your needs.
Bazaki is a member here He sells Crystalite and other offerings.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=30104
These guys sell Magic Pie III and all of goldenmotor type motors
http://www.devi-motion.com/webshop/e-bike-kit/p-1/
Please do yourself a favor and read up on these two companies, they both have there pros and cons.
Personally I would PM Bazaki and start there, I am sure he work with your budget and walk through the process of your first ebike and doing it in your own language.
Good luck
So if your serious about this you will have to raise your budget.
These two companies are in your country. One of them offer the Crystalite the Other offers the Magic Pie III. You would have to do research to see which one is best for your needs.
Bazaki is a member here He sells Crystalite and other offerings.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=30104
These guys sell Magic Pie III and all of goldenmotor type motors
http://www.devi-motion.com/webshop/e-bike-kit/p-1/
Please do yourself a favor and read up on these two companies, they both have there pros and cons.
Personally I would PM Bazaki and start there, I am sure he work with your budget and walk through the process of your first ebike and doing it in your own language.
Good luck
Racer_X
1 kW
That is a good starting kit, When you get bored you can upgrade the controller and make that motor go 39mph. There is a thread about someone modding that exact motor. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27585&p=398844&hilit=39mph#p398844
Just want to mention that: Battery not included!
Battery will be extra and unfortunately they do not seem to sell the goldenmotor 48v battery (picture below).
You might want to check out Bazaki's website for batteries. They seem to have a nice selection, definitely go with 48v you won't regret it.
http://www.fietsunie.nl/webshop/batterijen--batteries/
Just want to mention that: Battery not included!
Battery will be extra and unfortunately they do not seem to sell the goldenmotor 48v battery (picture below).
You might want to check out Bazaki's website for batteries. They seem to have a nice selection, definitely go with 48v you won't regret it.
http://www.fietsunie.nl/webshop/batterijen--batteries/
o00scorpion00o
100 kW
parmenps said:
On 48 Volts that kit might get you 28-30mph max, but it won't have much torque. Being in the Netherlands I doubt hills will be much of a problem ?
You would be far better off getting the magic pie III, it's controller is inside the motor and is a neater and is easier to connect up.
The controller in the MP II was not so good due to overheating, but the new design should solve that, It would have much better acceleration than that motor you posted the link to! Having said that it will do the job!
The problem with the controller in the link is that they are not so reliable and GM often say they are 20 amp but I've had about 4 of them and most of them were limited from between 15-17 amps max!
So on that basis alone I would get the new MPIII and see how much extra it would cost.
o00scorpion00o
100 kW
parmenps said:
This one definitely!
The MPIII will have much better torque than the other motor.
It will make a nice neat installation with the controller in the motor, Gary from GM Canada tested it out and the internal controller seems to offer the rated current this time compared to the old one.
The most you will get is about 25 mph on 48 Volts, if you get the need for more speed in the future you can rewire the motor for an external controller and use higher voltage.
If you like to pedal though the mac would be the better kit and will give you 30 mph max on 48V, but you would need a better battery than the GM!
Don't forget you will need torque arms, and a battery!
Racer_X
1 kW
+1 This the kit that I recommend for beginners it is eaaaaaasy to install and run. It is the top of the Line for Goldenmotor kits. Plus everything that is quoted below.
o00scorpion00o
100 kW
parmenps said:
Yes you can connect it to that motor kit, but the lead acid is a very poor battery for e-bike use. As far as I know the most you will be able to pull from that 9ah battery is 9 amps, that will be awfully slow, I don't think you can pull more than 1C from lead acid ? Besides the cycle life is very poor with lead acid + you won't get 9ah maybe 5.5-6 ah at the most judging from what I have seen on the forum, but maybe someone with more experience can advise you better on lead acid!
The other thing is it will be heavy and the shipping will cost a lot, +that's coming from the U.S, and you are sure to find 12 volt 10-12ah lead acid batteries where you live ? sealed ones of course! You could check out the local prices, you would need 4 batteries connected in series to give you 48 volts. What you should do is go check out a few and see how heavy they will be then imagine it on your bike. You will have to do all the wiring yourself.
The other thing is the connector on the lead acid battery from e-bikekit.com is not going to fit the GM kit, so you would need to re-crimp or solder new connectors. The 30 amp anderson connectors are good and I'm pulling over 100 amps peak through them!
It is hard to know what to buy that offers the best value when on a budget, you can go seriously over budget on this hobby, I don't think anyone here on ES hasn't!
You see the lead acid might be cheaper, but it is not good for electric bicycles or any e.v.
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