what size chain ring help please

david1949

1 mW
Joined
Nov 10, 2011
Messages
10
Location
Belfast U K
Hi i,m David form N Ireland hoping someone can give me some advice on what size of chain ring i need but first let me explain why i want to change the chain ring on my e bike. I have had two knee replacements so i went from a 21 gear push bike to a E bike mainly to get me up the hills and also in headwinds the E bike i have has (1) Prowheel with CNC machined chainguard 52T/ (2) Shimano 7 speeds 14-28T/ the weight is Bike excluding the battery 19.7 kg, incl 13Ah battery 23.4kg.

So i want to change the chain ring as i find i can just make it up the hill around where i live and that is in first gear also i find riding on the flat with on power on is really hard and that in first gear i have now reverted back to the push bike . I have been told that i should change the chain ring to get more power on the hills and flat but that person could not tell me the size of chain ring i needed so hoping someone on the forum can help.
 
Hi i,m David form N Ireland hoping someone can give me some advice on what size of chain ring i need but first let me explain why i want to change the chain ring on my e bike. I have had two knee replacements so i went from a 21 gear push bike to a E bike mainly to get me up the hills and also in headwinds the E bike i have has (1) Prowheel with CNC machined chainguard 52T/ (2) Shimano 7 speeds 14-28T/ the weight is Bike excluding the battery 19.7 kg, incl 13Ah battery 23.4kg.

So i want to change the chain ring as i find i can just make it up the hill around where i live and that is in first gear also i find riding on the flat with on power on is really hard and that in first gear i have now reverted back to the push bike . I have been told that i should change the chain ring to get more power on the hills and flat but that person could not tell me the size of chain ring i needed so hoping someone on the forum can help.


Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:52 am
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I may not know a lot about e-bikes, but it's regular bike components that I do know about. Most of my experience modifying drivetrains has to do with recumbent tricycles (which I'd recommend if your budget allows and you can meet spatial requirements for storage). Drivetrain principles should be similar as they share all the same components.

So you only have a single chain ring. That's pretty big for a single chain ring setup. 52T is huge and is often times bigger than most people's largest ring who have a 3-ring setup. 22-32-42 is a common 3-ring setup for mountain bikes. You can imagine the design was made to help go up hills in less-than-perfect terrain. If you plan to stick with a single chainring setup, then you'll have to find some sort of middle ground. I'd try a 42 chain ring and see how that works for you. Ebikestop has some cheap ones you can try. Make sure you get the right type that will fit the number and spacing of the bolts you currently have. Your manufacturer should be able to tell you if you don't know or can't measure.

You'll see a difference immediately with the swap. Note this will limit your speed on downhills and flats. That's the sacrifice. For further ability to go up hills, I use a 11-34T freewheel (in your case, probably a cassette). Going from the 14T to 11T will help compensate a bit for the loss from going from a 52T chain ring to a 42T somewhat. The 34T cog will help you tons compared to your stock 28T cog on your existing cassette. For pics and details, you can visit my e-bike blog in my sig or head over to my bent trike blog: kmxtornado.blogspot.com

IMG_0862.JPG


Good luck.

The basic thing is: The bigger the chain ring, the more difficult it is to go up hills. The opposite is true for the rear cassette. The larger the rear cogs on your rear cassette, the easier it is to take on those hills.

ANOTHER CONTROVERSIAL THEORY WORTH THINKING ABOUT:
Those at the recumbent forums at bentrideronline have noticed that reducing the length of your crankarms from a typical 170mm or 175mm length to something like 155mm helps a lot. Much of this choice was a response to experiencing pain in the knees. It's more noticeable and necessary for recumbents due to the physics of the angle at which we pedal. We can't use our body weight to pedal like you roadies can. I can see a benefit for your application too though b/c it will require your knees to bend less with this setup.

The crankarm is technically a leverarm in physics terms. If you shorten it, technically it's suppose to make it more difficult to climb hills (same theory as why chain cutters have long handles for leverage). For at least us bent guys, most of us find the opposite is true. Although we lose physical leverage, but b/c we don't have to pull our knees up so high and the degree of movement is less, we're able to spin and climb hills much more efficiently and more comfortably. Timing and gear changing is more important for bent rides than DFers, so it should be easier for you as an upright cyclist.

Again, this is not the same for upright DF (diamond frame) bicycles, but similar. It might be worth trying a shorter pair of crankarms to see if it works out for you. Start with a cheap set in case you don't noticed any improvement you won't be set back so much $$$.

CIMG9598.JPG


What you're looking at above is a 170mm crankarm at the top followed by another of the same size. The third one down is a 155mm and the last one at the bottom is a 152mm. For my application, 152mm was actually too short. I prefer 155mm but it will depend on each rider. Just wanted to note that it is possible to go to short. And remember, reducing the length on the crankarm by whatever mm is multiplied by two in use since the difference in length applies to both arms.
 
david1949 said:
So i want to change the chain ring as i find i can just make it up the hill around where i live and that is in first gear also i find riding on the flat with on power on is really hard and that in first gear i have now reverted back to the push bike ..

There is something other than chainring size wrong if ..."riding on the flat with on power on is really hard " ... ??
Did it perform better previously ?
how old is the bike ?
Is it a hub motor , or crank drive ?
It seems like you are losing power, possibly your battery is going bad, do you have a voltmeter to check ?
 
If you're saying that you need more power to go up hills, you could try adding some solder to the shunt in the controller. 250w ebikes give about 12 amps as standard. If you solder about a third of the shunt, it should go up to about 18 amps, which gives a lot more torque. Which bike do you have? 52T chainring is good for pedaling at about 20mph. 42 is better for 15mph
Here's some examples in these threads:
Post #52
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/9857-cyclamatic-beastamatic-dead-long-live-beastamatic-6.html
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/technical/9183-cyclamatic-controller-mod-walkthrough-pics.html
 
Thanks for your replies kmxtornado and Hillhater i have had two knee replacements and i needed a E Bike to get up hills and also headwinds,on the flat i don't need power assist but with power on or of i is hard to get above second gear and i have been told that a lower chain ring would help. This is all the dealer can tell me about the chain ring it,s/Prowheel with CNC machined chaingring 52T/cant fine this on the web/ so i am going to taking it down to a 44T it is secured with 4 hexagon bolts. I have seen one on E Bay but as there is no name or number on my T52 i not sure ,all the holds seem in the right place the gearing is / Shimano Tournay 7 speeds with Shimano Index System/ i have enclosed a photo of the one on eBay that looks the same as the one have
 

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Here are photoes of my chainring T52 that i want to replace with a T44
 

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Tools you'll need:
- Hex tool (allen wrench) to remove the silver hex thingy holding your crankarms. It might be on there really tight in which case you'll need a lot of leverage. You can use a long pipe or just sheer muscle.
- Crankpuller. It's a special bicycle mechanic tool that helps remove the crankset. There's basically no other way. You gotta get one. They're like $14 or something.
- The chain ring. It can vary in cost from $9-25. Not all 4 bolt ones are the same. They are spaced out differently. Scroll down to the bottom here and you'll see there's different BCD sizes. You gotta get one that matches what you have. Either ask the manufacturer what you have or you can measure it: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-bcd.html (tells you what BCD means). Your new replacement one will have to match. If the ebay listing doesn't specify what the BCD is, you'll have to ask. You won't be able to use it unless the BCD is the same for both the current chain ring and the new one.
- Chain breaker. With the new chain ring, your chain length will most likely have to shorten.

Unless you have the above tools, feel like spending money on them, and/or think that you might do more work on the bike, your alternative will be to buy the correct chain ring and pay a bike shop for the labor (knowledge and use of their tools). Some people like learning and toying with this stuff. Those guys should do it themselves. If that's not you and you just like to ride and couldn't care less about the technical stuff, I'd say just take it to the shop and have them help you with the installation. Labor should be less than $40. Again, as long as the BCD measurement of your current chain ring matches the current one and obviously has the same number of bolts, you're good to go. Now's also your chance to pick a cool color. Chain rings come in all kindsa colors these days.

You don't have a chain ring guard. If that's worked out, then just do the above. You may want to buy one to go with the setup since you're doing it anyway. Again, the chain ring guard will have to be the same size BCD.
 
Go hop over to a used bike shop and they can take care of this for you, for sure.
If you have one anyway.

Cuz this is just basic bicycle shop stuff.
 
Let us know how it goes. We're always curious how forum member's questions get sorted out and what decisions they've made. And of course we want to see how happy they are with the advice and direction. Hahah.
 
KMXTornada said:
You don't have a chain ring guard.
You said you had one, and your second picture shows one on the right hand side of the chain ring. Since you are going to a smaller chain ring I think you can just continue to use the same chain ring guard.
 
Yes Rassy i should be able to use the same guard but i first have to take off the old chain ring and find out the B C H before i can order a new one and the friend that has the puller has went on holidays for a month so cant do anything to he comes back thank,s.
 
Kmx had good advice about changing the whole crank. If you can find a crank with 44 teeth, and shorter arms, you might want to replace the whole thing. Shorter arms mean an easier flexing of the knees for each rotation. It's a shorter range of motion than a long crank.
 
Rassy said:
KMXTornada said:
You don't have a chain ring guard.
You said you had one, and your second picture shows one on the right hand side of the chain ring. Since you are going to a smaller chain ring I think you can just continue to use the same chain ring guard.

Oops, didnt' see that. I was at work and disabled the photos on my browser and looked at them only briefly. Thanks for the correction.

dogman said:
Kmx had good advice about changing the whole crank. If you can find a crank with 44 teeth, and shorter arms, you might want to replace the whole thing. Shorter arms mean an easier flexing of the knees for each rotation. It's a shorter range of motion than a long crank.

Well said. "range of motion." That's it. I'm so bad with words. Glad you put it in more concise - to the point expressions.
 
This is a duplicate post by the OP. what size chain ring help please in General Discussion.

Admins, can you lock?
~KF

(moderator edit: I moved all the posts in the duplicate "impatience" thread to this original one)
 
48 T chainring was my final choice and a 155mm crank arm for my hip replacements, we don't want to have to change them artificial joints too often. E-bikes rock for us joint replacement folks.
 
kmxtornado said:
Tools you'll need:
- Hex tool (allen wrench) to remove the silver hex thingy holding your crankarms. It might be on there really tight in which case you'll need a lot of leverage. You can use a long pipe or just sheer muscle.
- Crankpuller. It's a special bicycle mechanic tool that helps remove the crankset. There's basically no other way. You gotta get one. They're like $14 or something.
- The chain ring. It can vary in cost from $9-25. Not all 4 bolt ones are the same. They are spaced out differently. Scroll down to the bottom here and you'll see there's different BCD sizes. You gotta get one that matches what you have. Either ask the manufacturer what you have or you can measure it: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-bcd.html (tells you what BCD means). Your new replacement one will have to match. If the ebay listing doesn't specify what the BCD is, you'll have to ask. You won't be able to use it unless the BCD is the same for both the current chain ring and the new one.
- Chain breaker. With the new chain ring, your chain length will most likely have to shorten.

I haven't seen this thread till now, but from the photos the mounting seems to be the standard (road bike) Campagnolo 5-bolt 135 mm bcd with the chainguard in place of the outer ring. That's by far the most common for 52 tooth rings. It's been a while since I took one apart, but if I remember correctly it's possible to just undo the chainring bolts with an allen key take off the outer first, and then fiddle the inner round the spider and crank without having to remove the crank itself. Any decent bike shop should be able to replace it with a 42 tooth ring.
 
You're absolutely right! Hahha, I just ruined my credibility.

Yes, you are correct, you can change the chain ring w/o removing the entire thing. But my steps are legit if the entire crankset is to be swapped out. I think the reason I suggested removing the entire thing is b/c my first crankset was a cheapo one that came with my bent trike and the chainring was built into the crank. To change rings, I had to swap out to a totally different crankset. Nothing on the stock crankset could be reused. I had forgotten that my setup wasn't standard.

The OP may want to change out the entire crankset though if he's to get shorter crankarms. By the time you buy arms and the chain ring, you've spent enough money that you may as well change out the whole thing. Some crankarms can be pretty pricey by themselves. He'll have to do some window shopping to see what the options are.

ebikestop has some relatively low cost ones.
 
The type of swaged-onto-crank chainrings you had isn't non-standard, it's just the cheaper way of doing it, and is actually very common. Of the various bikes I've gotten from swapmeets, freecycle, garbage piles, bikeshop discards, and whatnot, more than half are that type.

That doesn't including the one-piece cranksets with the larger diameter BB, because that type outnumbers both of the removable-crank types combined.
 
Thank,s all for your advice on changing my crankchange i have now changed it from a 54T to 48T and it has improved things. As for the bike i still think it is to heavy at 23KG so if i had to do it over again would i buy a E Bike the answer is no . So what would i do i would take a £1,000 out of the £1,500 that the E Bike cost me and buy a good top of the range light weight push bike with 21 gears and then fit a E Bike conversion kit on it like the Oxygen E Bike kit. But hindsight is a wonderful thing and there is no point looking black i will make the best out of what i have again thank,s for all your help everybody.
 
For most of us, the weight doesn't really matter since we have epower. I'm sorry to hear your bit of regret in the purchase. I'm glad that at least changing the chain ring helped you a bit. Out of curiosity, did you end up doing it yourself or did you have a shop do it?
 
Yes i bought a drawer for the changering shank of E Bay at £4.59 and change the chainring my self as for the weight of the bike it can be a drawback as i take it on the train sometime,s and that can be a struggle. If you take the other day i went out on the bike around the forestry trails one i was on was about 2 mile long at the end was a gate i could the road and that road would have taken me home but i could not lift the bike over the gate so had to ride the 2 mile back + 2 mile more to get back to the road to get home and i passed the gate just a mile down the road. Also as all E Bike riders know it is not every hill that a E Bike will go up so you have to do all the cycling up hills.
 
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