What Textbooks Or Experimental Equipment Should I Buy....

[The Mighty Volt]

.....in order to further my theoretical and practical knowledge of electric vehicles, from the simplest E-Bike, right up to the most sophisticated and complicated large EV, such as cars

Specifically, I am talking textbooks, college texts, basic high-school electronics texts, beginner electronics or electrical-engineering texts, diagnostic tools from the simplest fluke meter or bread-boards right up the line to oscilloscopes etc

I have a Law Degree from University College Dublin, so I can digest large amounts of information and I have learned how to sift through material and get out the essence from amongst the voluminous guff.

Basically, I am trying to branch out into a new career. I would like to combine my legal background with something more practical, I am going to apply for a job in an electric vehicle retailer in Ireland, and pretty much offer to work at their most lowly job for jack-shit money, maybe $400 a week for a whole pile of hours. I would like to be able to learn the theory, the sort of stuff you guys already know by heart, but I don't want to spend three years in a college or an evening school, because I already have a primary degree and I don't think I have that sort of time or energy any-more at the age of 33.

Please regard this as a sincere request for assistance from somebody who is now at a cross-roads in their life and wants to push on into a new sphere of activity- probably the first sphere of activity which I would not regard as a job or as work, but rather as fun.

When I first came onto this forum I knew nothing. Okay so I still know nothing but now I know I know nothing. I know how to make a battery pack, insulate it, wire balance-taps, cut torque arms, figure out basic phase/hall sequences, understand some EMF and BEMF theory and practice, figure out throttle and 3-speed wiring, understand phase-amps and battery-amps, do basic trouble-shooting, and get a working system up and running. Thats a lot more than I knew a few years back. But I want to know what you guys know- the theory, the hacking, the physics, the real substance, and not be just some guy who is a few steps ahead of a noob in the street. I come on here and I look at Luke, Amberwolf, Fechter, Dogman, Arlo, etc etc etc and guys are talking about gate-drivers and weak algorithms and all manner of stuff. High end stuff. Thats where I want to be.

As I say, please regard this as a genuine request for help from a guy who is turning his back on a past-life and is going to take a financial ass-whipping in order to embrace this new field of endeavour. Just tell me what I need to buying and what I need to be reading and I will go and do it

Many thanks indeed. Your help is sincerely appreciated.

 

[Joseph C.]

Best of luck in your new career!

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Best of luck in your new career!

Thanks Joseph C. I am going to need it, by the sounds of things.

 

[bigmoose]

This would be a good book as you get going. Likely appropriate as you enter the "intermediate" state. Design of Brushless Permanent-Magnet Motors by Hendershot/Miller
http://www.ebay.com/itm/250408356157?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_500wt_675

Don't know your budget, but good test gear will last your lifetime. I am partial to Fluke 199C's for portable 200 MHz scopes. They have a multimeter built in and are 2 channels for the scope. They typically come with software and a computer interface that lets you pull the scope traces to the PC. What I particularly like is each scope channel and the multimeter are 1000 V insulated/isolated from each other and "ground" It is hard to "blow up" one of these scopes working inverters and motor controllers. The Fluke 80 series are pretty good multimeters. I like the 83 and the 87.

Best wishes in your journey! Quite a change from law to engineering!

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Hi BigMoose- you were another of the guys I wanted to mention. The problem with mentioning people is that one always forgets to mention somebody. JohnInCr, Gordo, these are other guys I would like to emulate.

Pretty much my budget for EV's is whatever I have in my pocket. If I have $10 I spend it on something to do with EV's. If I have $1,000,000 I would spend it all on batteries and motors and then go to live in a tent in the woods. That's my mind-set right now. I got into this to find a cheap affordable way of getting from my house to a field in a neighbouring village. That was in September 2009. Now I want to start building an electric car. We just bought a 1999 Lexus IS200 for €450 for this very purpose. Its an obsession now. Everybody I meet, I ask them about EV's and what they think of them. Kids want to ride my X5305 72v BMX. EV's are essential, in my opinion, if I can convert people by making them smile then all the better.

As such I don't have a set budget because every spare dime I get I spend it on EV related material!!

Thanks for your link- anything you, or Methods, or Physics or any of the aforementioned guys recommend, I will be picking it up- sooner or later. I just want to compile a massive compendium of the stuff I will need. Then I will go and get it as the money comes in.

Yes, it is quite a change, but I kind of hope to blend the two, maybe get a consulting job at the end of the day when the Irish government finally gets its head and its ass wired together- Its no good knowing the science and not being able to talk about it, but its even worse to do a lot of talking and not understand the theory. I used to enjoy the Intellectual Property law a lot- there were a lot of cases about industrial espionage and such like.

Thanks again and good luck.

 

[TylerDurden]

Doing conversions on gassers is a good start. It will force you to acquire and apply the knowledge.

I can't think of a good EV metaphor for "walking the talk", but if you want credibility in an EV career, you'd best be driving one or riding one.

There might even be a market for conversions in IRL. Here in the US, fuel is still cheap (by comparison) and everyone drives fast. But, UK drivers are more accustomed to smaller cars and reasonable speeds.

 

[fechter]

One less lawyer in the world?

That's a tall order. I've been learning this stuff all my life. I'm mostly an analog guy, so I tend to gravitate toward that. Start with the basics and work up.

Here's a great (and free) handbook on op-amp design. Op amps are still widely used in all manner of EV circuits.
http://www.analog.com/library/analogdialogue/archives/39-05/Op_Amp_Applications.zip

A few more tidbits here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1580

I'm sure we can find more later...

Invest in a good DVM. I have Fluke meters from the '80s that still work perfectly. It is the most useful single weapon in your arsenal.

I learn by doing better than by reading. You need to let the smoke out of some parts to really learn. With a power supply, voltmeter, and a breadboard, you can build thousands of basic circuits that are excellent learning tools. It helps to have a huge pile of junk to harvest parts from for cheap.

Another book I found to be very useful is the ARRL Radio Amateur's Handbook. It goes from the basics to more advanced topics, but always in a practical way. I hate the heavy math stuff.

One more tip: Read datasheets. Lots of them. They're free on manufacturer's websites and there are links to them from Mouser and DigiKey. Application notes are also good reading and also free. Pick any part, read the datasheet, and you'll be able to learn what a particular part can and can't do. Absolute maximum ratings given in the datasheet tell you when the smoke will come out.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Doing conversions on gassers is a good start. It will force you to acquire and apply the knowledge.

I can't think of a good EV metaphor for "walking the talk", but if you want credibility in an EV career, you'd best be driving one or riding one.

There might even be a market for conversions in IRL. Here in the US, fuel is still cheap (by comparison) and everyone drives fast. But, UK drivers are more accustomed to smaller cars and reasonable speeds.

This is it. In an expression- This is how I have been learning so far. Spend two hours in the shed sweating trying to cut tooled steel with a hack-saw until my torque arms are finished. I learned.

Destroy €500 of A123 cells with a strong acid flux because I did not know that using 0.3mm of copper shim would be easier to heat and thus easier to work with. Working with 0.5mm the solder would never flow and so I used a flux. I learned.

Spend and waste money on shitty soldering irons until LFP showed me the "BOOSTER" Irons, and until I got me an 80w Weller Hammer-Head. I learned.

This is how I have been learning. It is the steepest and most expensive learning curve and I am forced to do it because I did not have the single slightest bit of knowledge. My education is all classics or plays or legal texts and exams.

I certainly hope a market opens up. We are being squeezed bad now. Gas is €1.66 per European Litre, in Ireland. We recently started offshore drilling but its all a bit too late I feel.

Thanks for your help and encouragement. It is appreciated.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

One less lawyer in the world?

That's a tall order. I've been learning this stuff all my life. I'm mostly an analog guy, so I tend to gravitate toward that. Start with the basics and work up.

Here's a great (and free) handbook on op-amp design. Op amps are still widely used in all manner of EV circuits.
http://www.analog.com/library/analogdialogue/archives/39-05/Op_Amp_Applications.zip

A few more tidbits here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1580

I'm sure we can find more later...

Invest in a good DVM. I have Fluke meters from the '80s that still work perfectly. It is the most useful single weapon in your arsenal.

I learn by doing better than by reading. You need to let the smoke out of some parts to really learn. With a power supply, voltmeter, and a breadboard, you can build thousands of basic circuits that are excellent learning tools. It helps to have a huge pile of junk to harvest parts from for cheap.

Another book I found to be very useful is the ARRL Radio Amateur's Handbook. It goes from the basics to more advanced topics, but always in a practical way. I hate the heavy math stuff.

One more tip: Read datasheets. Lots of them. They're free on manufacturer's websites and there are links to them from Mouser and DigiKey. Application notes are also good reading and also free. Pick any part, read the datasheet, and you'll be able to learn what a particular part can and can't do. Absolute maximum ratings given in the datasheet tell you when the smoke will come out.

Thank you Fechter for your time and support. I can immediately agree with you on this much- the heavy-math stuff will have to be avoided, it was never my strongest suit to begin with and as an "old dog" I cannot see much future in the learning of new arithmetic tricks!!! I will need to keep this as practical as possible.

Yes- one area of data-sheets I have gotten very fond of are the Mosfet data-sheets. Now what I need to learn how to do is to start to do my own tests. Buy a mosfet. Test it. Analyse it. Write a review. Learn to tell if it is fake or real. That kind of thing- not heavy on maths or figures, just real world, yes-or-no sorts of answers.

Thanks for your post and please be assured that I am taking on board all the suggestions.

 

[fechter]

I've generally found that if you need calculus, there is a computer program that can figure it out for you. Basic algebra is good enough for most things, and I use it a lot for calculating resistor values, current, voltage etc. Mostly Ohm's law stuff.

When I read an app note or text that goes into differential equations, I stop immediately or at least skip that section.

 

[Miles]

The first chapter of this book is the best place to start learning motor theory.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

I've generally found that if you need calculus, there is a computer program that can figure it out for you. Basic algebra is good enough for most things, and I use it a lot for calculating resistor values, current, voltage etc. Mostly Ohm's law stuff.

When I read an app note or text that goes into differential equations, I stop immediately or at least skip that section.

Reminds me of when I read most of LFP's posts

Algebra I can get good at. I have a few school texts on that. Basic equations are no problem, I did chemistry at high-school/college level, and I used to do them all the time for titration's.

Cheers.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

The first chapter of this book is the best place to start learning motor theory.

Thanks Miles.

Thanks to everybody so far for their suggestions and links.

 

[Miles]

Also, this is excellent and free!
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=388184#p388184

 

[Miles]

Good general resource:
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/index.html

 

[JohnC]

The grass is always greener.

If it were me changing careers, I’d just get the EE degree and the license. You want to be taken seriously.

If that’s not feasible now, just buy the books in the attached EE syllabus from your alma mater.

https://sisweb.ucd.ie/usis/w_sm_web_inf_simple_viewer.show_programme?p_code=dn150

You're still young. Good luck
Erin go bragh

 

[The Mighty Volt]

The grass is always greener.

If it were me changing careers, I’d just get the EE degree and the license. You want to be taken seriously.

If that’s not feasible now, just buy the books in the attached EE syllabus from your alma mater.

https://sisweb.ucd.ie/usis/w_sm_web_inf_simple_viewer.show_programme?p_code=dn150

You're still young. Good luck
Erin go bragh

Go raibh mile maith agat {a thousand thank-you's}

There is also the added cost of the training and it might mean I can't support myself either.

PS its not a question of the grass being at all greener- pardon the expression- I know I will LOSE potential earnings- but I want to do this kind of thing. Its got a real potential to do exciting things. Its a real skill.

 

[andrew.box]

Get "The Art of Electronics" by Horowitz and Hill. It's a little challenging, but if you can get through the 1st three or four chapters with a decent level of comprehension you'll be off to a solid start.

 

[Lebowski]

Good general resource:
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/index.html

Second this one, looking at the table of contents it looks good.
You need to learn basic circuit theory as explained in this book.

I would seriously consider going to university or doing university
grade courses in mathematics (differential equations etc) as this
is fundamental to the theory of feedback systems. Do a search in
google for MIT course videos. Learn about LaPlace transform,
discrete time signal processing, stuff like that. It is hugely
fundamental. Learn about digital technology, gates, flipflops,
state machines, binary numbers (integer and fixed point).

Circuit theory etc is only about implementing XYZ, you need to be able
to design the XYZ system before you can implement it. This is what
all the math is about.

I myself am a Ms.EE and don't know a lot about motors or magnets etc
but I do know the golden rule which enabled me to make a killer controller:
A motor is like a generator but instead of taking current out you put
current in.

About measurement equipment, I would not invest too much in a DVM,
typically you know what voltage you're supposed to see (it should be 48V),
you don't care whether it's 47.9 or 47.945 . I would invest in a serious
oscilloscope, one where you can see the difference between 1usec, 100 nsec
or even 10 nsec rise/fall times. I got around $12000 in scopes, a $300 lab power supply,
$50 DVM and a soldering iron my dad gave me when I was 9.

 

[andrew.box]

IMO, you should have a DMM, but it doesn't have to be super high end.

A scope is a must have tool, as is a function generator and power supply for setting up a general purpose workbench. A decent digital scope is the Rigol DS1052, they're around $400 new. Or, get a dual trace analog scope on ebay for cheap, no need to pay more than $100 or so for one. HP and Tek are both good brands. I would recommend getting this stuff used, real commercial grade electronics gear is wicked expensive to buy new.

 

[Njay]

1st of all understand electricity, that electrons flow from different potential levels just like gravity acts on water.
Ohm's Law (R = V / I) and "Joule's Law" (P = I x V) covers most design tasks we need to do these days. When applying Ohm's Law, think from the point of view of the component. The 0.707 number is sometimes handy (convert sine to equivalent DC).
Then the inductance and capacitance charge delta equations (V = L di/dt, I = C dv/dt) takes you to another level, but I always keep a basic electronics text book handy as a reference. Don't be scared of dX/dt, d just means difference, variation, change.
Understand the components, how they work and their limits.
Test things, don't just read datasheets. Testing will move you from the nice theory values into the real world, from thinking in subjective adjectives into real consequences. I felt I learned a lot by building a dead simple current sink and putting simple things such as diodes and bare wires through it.
Learn to program a microcontroller, arduino or whatever you feel like. It's not just and end in itself, is also a (damn good) tool.
Don't try to embrace all at the same time, take small steps, build up, study something and test, then another something and test, then...

 

[ZOMGVTEK]

I'd snag at least a Fluke 87, a basic DMM you can trust is exceedingly important. Cheap ones work, but they can give you terribly inaccurate measurements in some instances. A basic scope is often 'good enough', the higher end ones just make your life easier. The portable Fluke Scope Meters are nice, but fairly spendy. I'm a fan of the older HP's like the 54600B, they can be found inexpensively if you dig. Even a $50 POS scope is better than nothing in most cases.

If you really want to change careers, just go for an EE degree. It shouldn't be that 'hard' to get, but it does take a few years. Then again, I might be a bit biased, some people tell me it's really hard stuff.

 

[Martin A]

Start a blog on what you have done and what you learn. There are probably others like you (me for instance) who know a bit from physics at school but now don't really know how to progress. We could learn a lot from your progress. I'm a deal older than you but I find all this EV stuff fascinating.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

just an update, tomorrow I will be starting in the London College of Electronics.

I will be studying their Level 1 Certificate in Electrical Engineering {Electronics}

The level 1 is quite basic.

http://www.lec.org.uk/FILES/L1_CENG.HTM#TOP

I was down there today for my enrolment. It seems year 2 is where the fun is going to start.

Hopefully I can stick at this and work my way up to a level 3 Diploma.

So, you can see, I really was serious about this after all lol.

 

[arkmundi]

Do MIT online, for free these days. Best education money can't buy. A BS-er in electrical engineering, equivalent, is what you need if you plan on making money. That's because you'll need to innovate something. The online marketplace is already saturated, so just being another retailer is unlikely. One more piece of advise, beware of "Aftershock" in the global economy as we take another serious dive as goverment debt is ready to roll over. Read serious inflation, ready disappearing discretionaly income.