What to do w/ a C40-300 Magmotor & 4 Hawker 12v 13ah batts?

voicecoils

voicecoils

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I'm seeking some advice on what to do with some items I've got sitting around for a few years waiting for an EV project. Here's what I have:
motors_4magmotor.jpg

Magmotor C40-300http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/MAG-C40-300.html#
Here are its specs:
3.8 Horsepower
4" Diameter
6.9" Long
3840 oz-in Torque
84% Efficiency
24 Volts
4000 RPM
11.9 Pounds

Four Hawker Genesis 12V 13aH batteries. Not sure of their health, haven't been touched since 2004.

And lastly a 24V charger.

I need a controller and something put them in. As for the controller I've been looking at the ones found here: http://www.astroflight.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=20 From what I've read of the Magmotors, they can be run above 24v as long as the current is limited as they will continue to try to draw more current until they damage themselves. What do you guys think of these controller kits?

Can anyone suggest a suitable vehicle for this these items?

Thanks to anyone who can provide input. (I've put this in the ebike section as I'm as yet undecided as to how I'll use the parts)
 
Here's what I've thought about so far regarding vehicle options:

eBike:
difficult to package this motor on the bike neatly. Also at 11.9lbs + the weight of the batteries the bike would be quite unwieldily. However, it could be used on the street possibly without attracting too much attention.

pusher-trailer:
* solves problem of having lots of weight on the bike but may be difficult to control and fabricate.

pocket bike / stand up scooter:
* can't really use either on the road or for proper transport. stand up scooters look too dorky for me.

light motorcycle:
* would require a motorcycle license (which I don't currently have) and the vehicle would need to be registered and insured.
* link given above states that motor can be run up to 350A at 24V ie: 8.4kW but this is not clearly stated as a continuous rating so and conflicts with the stated 3.8HP rating.
 
voicecoils,

The Astro-Flight controllers aren't available, yet, so no one knows much about them.

Here's another source: http://www.4qd.co.uk/index.html?Hom

You might be able to accommodate the Mag Motor on one of the "Crank Forward" type bikes or a utility bike, another possibility is the Xtra cycle kit. Recumbent trike?
 
Umm..ahh....I'd just buy some e-bike bits for an e-bike.

Either a hub motor or an elation kit (or similar).

Your motor is OTT for a pushbike!! :shock:

And the batteries are too heavy...and will be dead now anyway.
 
Trailer is prolly the bestest option for a bicycle with that big motor. Or you could do a dirtbike, no licence required for off-road use. Charge them bats up and see if they will hold anything.
 
Mark_A_W said:
Umm..ahh....I'd just buy some e-bike bits for an e-bike.
Either a hub motor or an elation kit (or similar).
Your motor is OTT for a pushbike!! :shock:
And the batteries are too heavy...and will be dead now anyway.
Click to expand...

Hub motor would obviously be easier to package in a bike, but I'd like to use this motor for something! What does 'OTT' mean? ah thank you google: "acronyms ott" = over the top. To fast (RPM), to powerful, low voltage. The higher rpm is the frustrating part as I'd like to avoid multi stage reduction.

Will have to do some testing on the batteries, just need to get a hold of some big 12V lights. They're 4.9kg each. I've read they can output 90A for 5min continuously. So that would be 4.32kW for the four, for 5min (ie 0.36kWh). That's still not a huge amount of power nor a long time.
 
Miles said:
voicecoils,
The Astro-Flight controllers aren't available, yet, so no one knows much about them.
Here's another source: http://www.4qd.co.uk/index.html?Hom
You might be able to accommodate the Mag Motor on one of the "Crank Forward" type bikes or a utility bike, another possibility is the Xtra cycle kit. Recumbent trike?
Click to expand...

thanks for the astro-flight info. will look at 4qd. The xtracycle kit is a good idea, better then a push trailer in many ways. Don't know how unwieldy a long rear heavy bike would then be though.
 
Miles said:
So, around 10:1 to 12:1 reduction, depending on wheel size, speed required etc. Doable with a 2 stage reduction - belt and then chain.
Click to expand...

If a pusher trailer used very small wheels, this should reduce the amount of reduction required. Of course the sprocket on the wheel does have to be smaller then the wheel itself :eek:

Is there a little java calculator out there where you can adjust motor rpm, wheel size & gear sizes to play around with?
 
voicecoils said:
Is there a little java calculator out there where you can adjust motor rpm, wheel size & gear sizes to play around with?
Click to expand...

I usually use the Power calculation spreadsheet for doing this: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=538
(Scroll down for latest version)

You could also use this: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/
 
Miles said:
I usually use the Power calculation spreadsheet for doing this: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=538
(Scroll down for latest version)
You could also use this: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks. Have you tried this: http://www.enigmaindustries.com/EDTSim.htm ?

The demo is pretty limited, but the full version (which I don't have does have data for the C40-300 and Hawker 13ah batteries) geared towards robots obviously but could have relevance to ebike/e-motorcycle/e-etc...
 
Pictures are always good so I've taken a few. I'm still thinking about bike-ability of this magmotor. Take a look at the pictures below, just playing around with a mounting possibility.

As can be seen, the if a doable chainline was to be achieved, the motor would need to be offset a fair bit.

Has anyone mounted a motor drive sprocket to a bike hub's disk brake mount? I assume no freewheel would be needed as the motors shaft can simply spin free when unpowered. The magmotor can run either direction with neutral timing but develops the greatest power with advanced timing which means the the motor would have to be orientated as shown in the photos (unless I figure out how to change the timing to be advanced in the other direction). I'd like to be able to mantain the ability to pedal :p

About the bike itself: very burly Canadian made Devinci Hucker '04. It's a handcrafted hardtail DH bike and has been sitting unused for a while. Has Shimano LX drivetrain, 8" hydraulic disk brakes (not mounted), and 5" of travel up front. 26" wheels, not sure it could fit 24" due to the shape of the chainstays. If 12:1 reduction WAS required, and the smallest sprocket I can get on the motor is 13T, then a 156T rear is seeming quite unreasonable...
 

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You'll definitely need a freewheel if you want to pedal! It will be hard work spinning that motor up to speed.....

You're hoping to do a single stage reduction?

Change to 24" wheels, if you can.

Maybe use #219 chain and 100t sprocket? You can get 10t in #219, I think, which will give you 10:1 reduction. With a motor speed of 3600rpm, this will give you a top speed of about 25mph with a 24" (507) wheel. Chain might be a bit noisy, though.
 
Miles said:
You'll definitely need a freewheel if you want to pedal! It will be hard work spinning that motor up to speed.....
You're hoping to do a single stage reduction?
Change to 24" wheels, if you can.
Maybe use #219 chain and 100t sprocket? You can get 10t in #219, I think, which will give you 10:1 reduction. With a motor speed of 3600rpm, this will give you a top speed of about 25mph with a 24" (507) wheel. Chain might be a bit noisy, though.
Click to expand...

Thanks again for your input Miles! The rear chainstays curve in around the tire which would put a 24" tire at the narrowest point. Don't think it would fit. A 20" wheel might but the bike would be looking pretty wacky :shock:

re: the freewheel, I should have thought of the motor mass aspect. Will freewheels survive in such situations? Perhaps some of the trial bike freewheels out there.

Came across this site: http://www.peltzer.net/ebike/index.html

Great detail on his project, with a dual reduction belt to chain set up. I suppose my motor is a bit more powerful and higher RPM then his but the basic concept should be scalable.

I'm not sure I've got the ability or access to tools to put together a 2 stage reduction drive but it would be a much more elegant and quieter solution.
 
Either the Magmotor website is very conservative, or the EV/Robot market has gotten differently wound/built ones. I bought the motor off the old visforvoltage so I can't access my old PMs and find out where the motor actually came from originally (I'm the second owner, the first used it in a stand up scooter). Have a look at the attached excel file.

@ 24V

No load: 0%, 0 HP, 4029 RPM, 3.5 amps

Max efficiency: 83.65%, 1.13 HP, 3677 RPM, 42 amps

Peak Power: 49.53%, 3.804 HP, 2837 RPM, 238.72 amps

What do you think?
 

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You can change the timing for operation in either direction (relatively easy).

Yes, you will need a humongous rear sprocket to do a single reduction. It will be more reasonable to use a double reduction so the sprockets don't need to be so big. This usually means using a jack shaft of some sort.
 
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