What would be on YOUR "World's Best Ebike"?

TylerDurden

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From:
maxwell65 said:
if someone here has other design concepts that will accomplish allowing the amount of batteries that can be placed and has pedals,,,a must, in order for it to not need a license, then bring it on.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=29503


Things I would expect on the "world's best":

Modular approach-
  • Extendable swingarm or optional versions
    Optional dual-shock swingarm & rear seat instead of rack.
    Adjustable head angle
    Mountpoints for interchangeable dropouts, battery carriers, non-hub motors, bottom brackets, racks, frame stiffeners.
    Integrated/hidden wiring looms

Etc....?

Edit to include Lock's suggestion for second seat.
 
My best ebike would have the batteries built into the frame.. and have the charger also, so its just literally plug and play. Oh and the batteries have to be Lipos, so I coudl full throttle it without ever worrying about amp pull :D
 
I already have my world best ebike! :mrgreen: .. My giant is what i call top of the top!

But having more money,
Mine would be mounted in a Stealth bomber frame filled with nanotech lipo and a watercolled Crystlyte 5404 motor and a big 220V 40A charger :twisted: :twisted: to charge in 10 minutes :mrgreen:
 
My dream E-bike would be... 40hp on a Santacruz V-10 :twisted:
My best to date is a Demo 8 with a 5306, that is a very satisfying mountain ride

If someone would make an E-bike specific frame, it would need to handle like the best DH racers for me to even consider building on it.
 
Jennifer Hawkins - bursting at the seams with Rohypnol and mdma......

And me.... as the cycle analist....

And clamping dropouts. Would love clamping dopouts....
 
For me, my perfect bike is as follows:

Thin narrow motorcycle rims (to enable motorcycle tire use, which are SOOOOO much better than bicycle garbage) laced to bicycle hubs.

Motorcycle brake mounting for the front. (the rear brake is most irrelevant on a bicycle/motorcycle)

Extremely stiff fork, perhaps 3" of suspension, but no suspension would be better than the typical underdampened flexy crap.

CroMoly 4130 frame. CroMo is a better material for an Ebike than all the exotic materials (titanium, aluminum, carbon, etc) combined.

Frame must be extremely rigid.

Frame must have provisions for mounting non-hub motors up to 13" diameter. (this enables both nutters like me to not be cramped with motor mount, but also allows stoke-monkey type use of hubmotors for folks doing non-hub-drives.

Frame should have some mounting tabs somewhere for batteries.
 
liveforphysics said:
For me, my perfect bike is as follows: ...

Frame must have provisions for mounting non-hub motors up to 13' diameter. (this enables both nutters like me to not be cramped with motor mount, but also allows stoke-monkey type use of hubmotors for folks doing non-hub-drives.

Frame should have some mounting tabs somewhere for batteries.

Luke, I know you go for the gusto, but what 13-foot motor are you talking about? You going to use one of those generators in a Kansas wind turbine and wire it like a motor? I guess you'd better have mounting tabs for batteries. :mrgreen:

Cameron
 
oldpiper said:
liveforphysics said:
For me, my perfect bike is as follows: ...

Frame must have provisions for mounting non-hub motors up to 13' diameter. (this enables both nutters like me to not be cramped with motor mount, but also allows stoke-monkey type use of hubmotors for folks doing non-hub-drives.

Frame should have some mounting tabs somewhere for batteries.

Luke, I know you go for the gusto, but what 13-foot motor are you talking about? You going to use one of those generators in a Kansas wind turbine and wire it like a motor? I guess you'd better have mounting tabs for batteries. :mrgreen:

Cameron

LOL! That's what I get for posting on my phone in a meeting. lol

I will correct my units, thank you. :)
 
No worse than my spelling all the time. :)

Re tylers post. Lots of agreement with what you say, but some things are just going to have several frame models, like the adjustable head angle. We can screw that up easy enough already with fork lengths. So you will not ever have a perfect dirt frame be a perfect commuters or cargo bike frame.

I love the idea of a modular dropout sort of thing, for the rear at least. So an alloy frame, quality FS, at least two models for head angle requirements for dirt or steet, and the rear 7" of swingarm is cromoly that bolts on. The bolt on drops allowing infinite customizing for a huge range of hub motors, and motor widths. Also multiple swingarm sets eventually, with a set designed for non hub motors to fit, a set that makes it a FS longtail, etc.

Notice mr front hub never mentioned anything for that? That's because with a good frame you don't need to put the motor up front to balance out carrying the battery wrong. Goes without saying, at least one of the battery trays is integrated into the downtube. I think Maxwell is off to a great start with his design! Wish I had cash, if I did I'd already have at least two greyborg frames. :twisted:
 
Just like with motorcycles you need different classifications of best or else you end up with too many compromises making the bike truly excel at nothing.

Why the adjustable headset though? That's one of the top things on an ebike that I absolutely want to be solid and fixed. It's easy enough to change the effective head angle anyway using adjustable positions on the rear shock.
 
John in CR said:
Why the adjustable headset though?
Why not? World's best... Totally tunable. Change a fork, tire or a wheel and your geometry is perturbed.

We drive cars that have adjustments for camber, caster and toe. It ain't rocket science.
 
If I had tons of money I'd buy one of those stealth bombers. I'd also get one of those frames made in Croatia by that dude on this website.

I'd go nuts.

But, then, if money were plentiful I'd be far more focused on surfing and traveling for surf.
 
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I want this bike. With disc tabs.

That is it. Really. KISS.

Clamping, horizontal drop outs so I can run with out a derailleur would be nice.

Get the frame in an XXL size, throw 20" wheels with motorcycle tires on it, and a decent 100mm travel fork. Tons of room for batteries. Tons of cushion for pot holes. The small tires correct for the XXL frames stand over height, and an adjustable stem corrects the XXL long cockpit.

Might be an interesting business model. These bikes can be had for $50-$100. What would it cost to have disc tabs welded on, a clamping drop out made, and an ABS box fabbed up? You could probably get it to around $150 if you do it in 10s. I think plenty of people would pay $300 for that frame.
 
Incidentally, I've been talking via e-mail with a local bike cop. He is the president of the American bike cop association. He said they tried ebikes back in 2000. "Zap bikes" - what a failure! Another person turned off from ebikes by cheap, lead acid boats.

I sent him a pictures of Hal's greyborg and told him that for $2k I could build him one with a top speed of 20mph and a 50 mile range.
Not that I'd trust my self to build an ebike for the cops, but hey with what they pay for customized "police" gear ($2k for their custom built bicycles) you'd think there would be a nice niche market for high quality police ebikes.
 
Interesting question.

I have a dream garage that is not unachievable. As soon as I can retire to the Denver area this is what it will contain.

I like Lightfoot Recumbent bikes. I am going to buy 2 of their Rangers. One will be pearl white and have the new Bionx 48 volt hub motor. It will have a fairing and a bag for behind the seat. I will use that bike for short to medium length rides.

The second Ranger will be black with Aerospoke wheels. It will have a cyclone 500 watt motor. The motor will be installed on a welded on platform. It will be easily interchanged with the cyclone 380 watt motor. I will use a lithium polymer battery either 30 or maybe 40 watts. I will use the 500 watt motor for shorter rides and the 380 for rides that may take all day. This bike will also have a fairing.

This is my variation of the “What car am I going to drive today? The Red Corvette or the Black Turbo Porche”.
 
Hal's work has caught my eye. These two are poetry in motion: from http://greyb.org/ I am fond of what I call "systems integration" of the frame. Holding the batteries internal to the frame, clean lines, and from what we hear, these bikes handle pretty well.
abino%20gegen%20warp%20g.jpg
 
It's funny you should post that BigMoose, I was just thinking that my Greyborg is my deam ebike. I rode it to work about three or four hours ago and I am still smiling. Everytime I ride it I just can't get over how much fun it is. The handling is outrageous, I have ridden a lot of motorcross/dirt bikes, and I can't fault the handling and suspension. It is so much fun, it is like rediscovering the EV grin all over again. Its freezing winter here, but I still find myself randomly getting off the couch to blast around the block and come back into the house shivvering but with an idiot grin on, my wife thinks I am crazy and obsessed with it. She's right.

EDIT: Just occured to me that is the thing I wish the Greyborg did have, which is clamping dropouts (as I noted in my first post). The dropouts are really thick and horizontal, but even Hal gives the suggestion you can thread in a bolt for extra security, this would have been good standard. I think in any ebike I asked for, my only two non-negotiables would be batteries in the triangle/frame, and for the dropouts to be obscenely thick, horizontal, and with bolting clamps at the ends. Peace in the middle east would be good, but what I really want to see in my lifetime is an end to the war against torque arms...
 
What's the word on the grayborg? They're sold out right? Is he making any more?

I hope he goes into production with those. The R&D and development is already done, and that's the big cost people cite in new frames right? Seems silly to make only a dozen of those beauties. It's even crazier the price he was selling them for.... like the cost of a mass produced surly frame. He must have different motivations than the rest of us.
 
What's the word on the grayborg? They're sold out right? Is he making any more?

Current run is sold out, but my understanding is they are looking to do a bigger production run next, and taking orders, about to make an announcement on pricing etc. for the new run - also are going to offer an aluminium swingarm, with what look like removable/moddable torque plates, but I am only going off the image they posted in the Greyborg owners pic thread.
 
Since what I need is a cargo bike as well as a commuter, *and* I need a non-saddle seating solution that lets me sit low on the bike, to easily place both feet flat on the ground when stopping, my idea of a Best bike is likely very different from most.

That said, the basic shape of what I need is a lot like my CrazyBike2, but it'd need to:

--have a seat-mount that is adjustable front-to-rear of a few inches, to allow different leg-lengths to the BB. The BB itself could be adjustable instead, but this complicates chain length control.

--handlebars use remote steering to the front wheel, preferably by rod-with-bearings, but cable or chain control could work. Stem for bars would allow for adjustment of bars to arm length and seating position.

--make parts of it modular, rather like the Xtracycle is, so I can use it with or without the side racks. Side racks would be behind the seat but primarily in front of the rear axle, and fully supported by the main frame so that the rear swingarm is totally separate.

--top rear rack would be a bonus, preferably either removable or adjustable so larger diameter wheels can be used than it might otherwise allow for, and/or so the rack can be lowered if the shock is locked out, and lower COG with cargo is required.

--option for a second seat instead of the rear rack would be nice.

--have a trailer hitch (to haul at least another 500lbs of cargo in addition to the 200lbs minimum on the bike).

--have the battery space in the frame *below* the top tube, as my two semi-recumbents do (along the axle line). In addition to helping balance out the bike, this also allows for the option to easily enclose the entire frame area either for appearances, anti-theft/vandalism, or aerodynamics reasons.

--Integrated threaded "rivnuts" in the frame area for battery-securing mounts would be nice.

--thru-frame wiring harness openings, to help protect (and possibly conceal) the wiring looms.

--in addition to clamping dropouts front and rear for powerful hubmotors, it would have to be able to easily mount various non-hub drives to it, in a way that easily allows a jackshaft to combine the motor and pedal outputs into one to run to the rear wheel.

--be a very stiff space-frame, to prevent chain misalignment under high-power loads (such as startups with full cargo loads), for chain drive systems.

--full suspension, adjustable by the rider without special tools (an airpump at most) for various loading and road conditions, with individual lockout for both front and rear. Preferably dual rear shocks, and both front rear being hydraulic/pneumatic.

--Assuming a full bike is an option, it would also have to have full automotive-brightness lighting, including side-markers and turn signals and brake lights, at least as an available option if purchasing a complete bike.

--Adjustable headset angle, so different forks and wheel sizes could be used, without destroying the geometry.

--Just about all the points Liveforphysics asked for, as well.

Probably a lot of other things I'd require of a "best" frame, if I ever had the money to buy one instead of building it myself. ;) But a bike like I describe above would probably cost several thousand dollars each to produce as a complete bike, given that there would only be a few hundred people that would ask for one (but I bet that many people would want it if they tried it out and it was as good as the idea in my head is ;) ).
 
Mine's already been made! Maybe someday?

Trike_0001[1].jpg

otherDoc
 
I would like a electric bicycle that:
Goes 30 MPH.
Lightweight - This is a Bicycle. Not scooter. Not a motorcycle.
Good handling
See where I am going light on the front. Red light on rear.
$2000 or less
No parts and pieces. Complete, delivered in a box. I can assemble.
 
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