svt/r&d
10 W
Hub Motor out there and why??? 
Whats the best???
- Thread starter svt/r&d
- Start date
best for what?
That's why there's so many models of crystalyte alone, to cater to the different requirements.
One suit doesn't fit all.
You first need to define your objectives.
That's why there's so many models of crystalyte alone, to cater to the different requirements.
One suit doesn't fit all.
You first need to define your objectives.
lazarus2405
10 kW
First, I agree completely with everything Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said. Decide what you want to use the motor for, and then we can point you in the right direction.
That said, there are a few basic generalizations I can make for you:
Crystalyte hub motors are often considered among the best. You'll find that the majority of hub motor users on this forum use them. They have a good reputation, and are the technically most understood motors on the market.
Within the Crystalyte motors, there are two families: the 400s and the 5300s (also called X5, 5000, or Phoenix motors). The 400s are lighter and less expensive but cannot handle as much power as the X5s. If you want to run more than 1500 watts of power, the X5 is the way to go. If you will be running less, then the X5 will only be extra weight and a 400 will be your best bet.
Within each motor family, there are different "windings", which describes how the copper wire in the motor is wound. A lower winding generally corresponds to a higher speed (that is, with the same voltage the motor will spin faster, but it will require more current to generate the same torque as a higher winding), and a higher winding corresponds to more torque (on the same voltage it will have a lower top speed but generate more torque with the same current). Note that all windings within a family have the exact same magnets and the exact same amount of copper wire, and thus they are equally "powerful".
There is another motor which folks on these forums seem to like, not made by Crystalyte, called the Puma. Think of it as being between a 400 and 5300, with more torque than a 5300 but a lower top speed. It weighs less but can fewer watts (that is, power) than a 5300.
Remember, torque corresponds to better acceleration and hill climbing ability.
Also remember that your motor's performance will depend on what feeds it, meaning the motor controller and your batteries. Power = Current * Potential, which is watts = amps * volts. More amps will give you more torque. More volts will give you both more torque and a greater top speed.
Your best bet is to decide what you want your "cruising" speed to be and then maximize your torque to that speed. This will give you the best acceleration and hill climbing at the speed you desire. These two calculators can help you:
http://ebikes.ca/simulator/
http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm
That said, there are a few basic generalizations I can make for you:
Crystalyte hub motors are often considered among the best. You'll find that the majority of hub motor users on this forum use them. They have a good reputation, and are the technically most understood motors on the market.
Within the Crystalyte motors, there are two families: the 400s and the 5300s (also called X5, 5000, or Phoenix motors). The 400s are lighter and less expensive but cannot handle as much power as the X5s. If you want to run more than 1500 watts of power, the X5 is the way to go. If you will be running less, then the X5 will only be extra weight and a 400 will be your best bet.
Within each motor family, there are different "windings", which describes how the copper wire in the motor is wound. A lower winding generally corresponds to a higher speed (that is, with the same voltage the motor will spin faster, but it will require more current to generate the same torque as a higher winding), and a higher winding corresponds to more torque (on the same voltage it will have a lower top speed but generate more torque with the same current). Note that all windings within a family have the exact same magnets and the exact same amount of copper wire, and thus they are equally "powerful".
There is another motor which folks on these forums seem to like, not made by Crystalyte, called the Puma. Think of it as being between a 400 and 5300, with more torque than a 5300 but a lower top speed. It weighs less but can fewer watts (that is, power) than a 5300.
Remember, torque corresponds to better acceleration and hill climbing ability.
Also remember that your motor's performance will depend on what feeds it, meaning the motor controller and your batteries. Power = Current * Potential, which is watts = amps * volts. More amps will give you more torque. More volts will give you both more torque and a greater top speed.
Your best bet is to decide what you want your "cruising" speed to be and then maximize your torque to that speed. This will give you the best acceleration and hill climbing at the speed you desire. These two calculators can help you:
http://ebikes.ca/simulator/
http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm
Eric G
1 kW
Well said Lazarus!
Eric
Eric
svt/r&d
10 W
Thanks for the great responce, this will be used on a ebike, seems like there would be more to choose from out there?lazarus2405 said:
Drunkskunk
100 GW
svt/r&d said:
There is more out there, but you asked for the best. the Crystalyte and the Puma are the best, generaly. One is silent and simple, the other is noisy and torquey
What kind of Ebike? It realy matters as to what would be the best motor. If you happen to live in, say, Sydney, and wanted to build an Ebike that would be legal to ride on the bike paths, then neither of these motors would be the best, they would all be too high power.
vanilla ice
1 MW
Hub isn't all there is, you have chain drive, belt drive, friction drive, gear drive motor setups too. Haven't seen shaft drive yet.
lazarus2405
10 kW
Will the ebike be for commuting on a daily basis?
How far do you need to go on one charge?
How fast do you want to go?
Will you be dealing with a lot of hills? Steep ones? Mountains?
What sort of batteries are you thinking of using? In my opinion, this is a much more important consideration than the motor, since they determine your weight, range, and how much power the motor actually gets. Furthermore, good batteries will always be more expensive than your motor, sometimes a few times the cost of your motor.
Just tell us what you want to do and we can point you in the right direction. This forum has an extremely diverse group of users. There are people here who use their ebikes to get to work every day. There are some who just need some assistance getting up hills. Some take them off-road for hill climbing. Some drag race their ebikes, and some take theirs 60mph down the freeway.
So, what do *you* want to use your ebike for?
How far do you need to go on one charge?
How fast do you want to go?
Will you be dealing with a lot of hills? Steep ones? Mountains?
What sort of batteries are you thinking of using? In my opinion, this is a much more important consideration than the motor, since they determine your weight, range, and how much power the motor actually gets. Furthermore, good batteries will always be more expensive than your motor, sometimes a few times the cost of your motor.
Just tell us what you want to do and we can point you in the right direction. This forum has an extremely diverse group of users. There are people here who use their ebikes to get to work every day. There are some who just need some assistance getting up hills. Some take them off-road for hill climbing. Some drag race their ebikes, and some take theirs 60mph down the freeway.
So, what do *you* want to use your ebike for?
svt/r&d
10 W
Hi, well this will be a new type of recumbent, very lightweight and aero. it's only 6miles to work and less for most stores etc unlike the L.A. madness lol it's flat and not alot of wind on the main drags except for the sandblast days lol, pack will be a123 cells it's all about bike and golfcart lanes here
recumbent
100 kW
My winter project is a LWB recumbent. After much trial, and what I've read in this educational forum I will choose a 400 series with 48-60 volts of li-ion batteries.
Too big a motor and you start fighting the extra 15 lbs of motor weight with 10 pounds of extra batteries, then handling gets compromised, nevermind cost.
I'd love to have the strongest motor just like the next guy, but it all starts to look too much like an ugly machine and not a bike. I don't mind pedalling to break the inertia, or start the bike moving, and this small step keeps the equipment (and price) smaller, and more managable.
Geared motors would be my first choice if it wasn't for the noise and potential mechanical failures. although I've had no mech problems with my geared Heinzmann after 8 summers of use.
Too big a motor and you start fighting the extra 15 lbs of motor weight with 10 pounds of extra batteries, then handling gets compromised, nevermind cost.
I'd love to have the strongest motor just like the next guy, but it all starts to look too much like an ugly machine and not a bike. I don't mind pedalling to break the inertia, or start the bike moving, and this small step keeps the equipment (and price) smaller, and more managable.
Geared motors would be my first choice if it wasn't for the noise and potential mechanical failures. although I've had no mech problems with my geared Heinzmann after 8 summers of use.
svt/r&d said:Hi, well this will be a new type of recumbent, very lightweight and aero. it's only 6miles to work and less for most stores etc unlike the L.A. madness lol it's flat and not alot of wind on the main drags except for the sandblast days lol, pack will be a123 cells it's all about bike and golfcart lanes here
If the aero does its job, you won't need a lot of power to go silly fast.
Are you planning to use a mid-drive (through the bike gears)?
BiGH
100 kW
hey,
welcome to the board. I'd probably suggest using a 4 series motor - lighter weight and can accept some high power levels. Select which motor you want based on your desired system voltage and top speed. if you go to ebikes.ca their shop lists approximate km/h per volt of each motor. I used this to help determine what voltage etc i wanted to run at.
I wouldn't run at 36v - the assistance is just not that great, however 48v+ is sweet. 72v (using lifepo4 / lithium) 35a is about the maximum you'd want to use on a recumbent. I was quite happy with the speed at 48v
6 miles(9.6km) won't require much at all! I have 72v 12ah of lifepo4 cells on my bike and that gets me 20km (12 miles) at pretty much full speed (up to 55kph). I can re-wire my pack to provide 36v 24ah very easily (by changing the patch cable i use). If you wanted a pre-packed pack I'd suggest you get a 12ah 48v pack on a 408 would provide plenty of speed (35kph / 21mi) (at 72v it gives 52kph / 32mph).
you could use dewalt cells, but remember the problem is that if you don't have many cells you start to run fairly high discharge rates, which drains batteries faster and makes them last less time.
welcome to the board. I'd probably suggest using a 4 series motor - lighter weight and can accept some high power levels. Select which motor you want based on your desired system voltage and top speed. if you go to ebikes.ca their shop lists approximate km/h per volt of each motor. I used this to help determine what voltage etc i wanted to run at.
I wouldn't run at 36v - the assistance is just not that great, however 48v+ is sweet. 72v (using lifepo4 / lithium) 35a is about the maximum you'd want to use on a recumbent. I was quite happy with the speed at 48v
6 miles(9.6km) won't require much at all! I have 72v 12ah of lifepo4 cells on my bike and that gets me 20km (12 miles) at pretty much full speed (up to 55kph). I can re-wire my pack to provide 36v 24ah very easily (by changing the patch cable i use). If you wanted a pre-packed pack I'd suggest you get a 12ah 48v pack on a 408 would provide plenty of speed (35kph / 21mi) (at 72v it gives 52kph / 32mph).
you could use dewalt cells, but remember the problem is that if you don't have many cells you start to run fairly high discharge rates, which drains batteries faster and makes them last less time.
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