wheel lacing - advice needed

[nonlineartom]

I need to lace up a mac motor into a 24" rim and I'm a bit lost as what to do, can anyone recommend a good source of appropriate spokes in the UK for the job?

 

[rojitor]

If you know exactly the size i guess you can find them here http://www.crystalyte-europe.com/home.php
I bought my spokes from maxwell65, johnrobholmes is a good option as well.
Dogman pointed here a couple sites too http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36239
Or maybe there's a custom spoke machine at some bike store near you.

 

[nonlineartom]

I managed to find a local shop that is going to supply the spokes, rim and skills to lace the hub for me, will 14 gauge spokes be good enough?

 

[NeilP]

To a degree it will depend on the rim.
Is it a known rim that people have used to lace that hub into before? or an unknown one?

People that have used 24 inch rims with that hub could give you an idea of what spoke length is needed, but they could easily be out by enough to make it impossible to lace.

You need to measure a load of variables to get the spoke length exactly correct

Here are a few online calculators with explanations to tell you how it is done.
Measure ERD (effective rim diameter ) using the explanation on this page
http://www.extralite.com/Products/measure%20of%20SED.htm

More info on here
http://web.archive.org/web/20050516221323/http://www.geocities.com/spokeanwheel/index.html
http://www.holmesbikes.com/

http://www.ebikes.ca/SpokeCalc.shtml

http://www.sapim.be/index.php?st=spokelength

Also a calculator on this page, look for the link on the RHS
http://www.dtswiss.com/

http://www.bikeschool.com/tools/spoke-length-calculator

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18995&start=15

http://www.prowheelbuilder.com/spokelengthcalculator/

I bought my spokes from these guys
http://www.newsonsportec.com/spokes-cycling.html#

You could always cut and thread your own with one of these..but a lot of work
http://www.petracycles.co.uk/cyclo-spoke-thread-rolling-tool-p-71881.html

 

[nonlineartom]

Thanks Neil, always on the ball. The shop is going to cut the spokes and lace it for me. I'm going for a Halo combat 24". It's a double wall rim that can take a hell of a beating, it can also handle the 3" wide kenda tire just about. They will do the spoke length calculation on the day, really decent guys, I was just wondering whether the 14 guage spokes they said they were going to use would be good enough for a heavily loaded eBike, the hardest it will have to cope with are some chunky pot holes (no suspension)

 

[Ykick]

14ga might need washers for the motor spoke heads? That's why some of us swear by 13/14ga single butted spokes. 13ga at the motor spoke head but 14ga at the nipples. I like tensioning 14ga spokes and nipples, they seem to tighten nicely.

 

[NeilP]

Umm 14..well I would not do it..but I have only ever built one wheel..well it has had two rebuilds and at couple of snapped spokes...That is what comes from letting others ride your bike to tryout..the bent rim..not the snapped spokes.
I used 12 gauge stainless from Newsonsportec. but the next build on a 17 inch motorcycle rim will be 10 gauge. The equivalent rolling diameter on MTB wheel will be about a 22 inch.
I did have 21 x 1.75 from a Honda Africa Twin front and that would be about the same as a 26 inch MTB wheel, but I think that is too big, so I have found that a Honda C90 moped has about the right size rim.
But go up a gauge if you can..if you can't at least see what spoke length they use, then order a set of bigger 12 gauge from Newsonsportec and have them in stock just in case

 

[johnrobholmes]

14ga will work fine, but 13/14 is my preference because of the hole size in the hubs.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Too thick of a spoke is as bad as too thin. But 14 is good. Many DH and park riders don't even use as thick as 14 gauge, opting for lighter weight spokes, and they are taking serious hits to the wheel.

I use 14 gauge, and have never had a spoke failure in a wheel I've built.

However, you might ask the shop if they have single butted 13/14 available, as the head holes on that MAC may be large. Its a 14 gauge spoke with a 13 gauge head.

 

[nonlineartom]

Thanks for the info, very helpful.

 

[catsnapper]

A bit late for the OP, but our UK based wheelbuilding business has a Morizumi spoke cutting and threading machine. We can supply 14g, 14/13g single butted and 13g plain spokes cut to length. The 13g spokes use nipples that are fine with normal bike rims and use a standard spoke key. They have a larger head that is ok with most geared motors, but still need washers with some Crystalyte and other DD motors. All spokes are DT Swiss or Sapim.

Alan

 

[NeilP]

Too thick of a spoke is as bad as too thin.

Umm that has got me re thinking my plan..so do you reckon going to 10 gauge is going to be too much for my planned wheel?
Why is too thick as bad as too thin?

I am looking at a 17 inch motorcycle rim from something like a Honda C90 front..I think it is about the same as a MTB 22 inch when fitted with a 2.5 tyre
Motor is a 5404 or 5405, probably running at 148 volt.
Was thinking 10 gauge radial or single cross pattern. The nipples are going to need to be big enough for the motorcycle rim

 

[johnrobholmes]

Too thick of a spoke is as bad as too thin.

Umm that has got me re thinking my plan..so do you reckon going to 10 gauge is going to be too much for my planned wheel?
Why is too thick as bad as too thin?

I am looking at a 17 inch motorcycle rim from something like a Honda C90 front..I think it is about the same as a MTB 22 inch when fitted with a 2.5 tyre
Motor is a 5404 or 5405, probably running at 148 volt.
Was thinking 10 gauge radial or single cross pattern. The nipples are going to need to be big enough for the motorcycle rim

What is the gross weight of the vehicle, and the weight or thickness of the rim? My guess is that the c90 rim is steel and about 2.5 pounds, and that would match well to 13 through 11ga spokes. A single cross would likely be the only lacing possible. A modern alloy rim for 100cc+ bikes could take 10ga spokes.

Too thick of spoke can't be tensioned enough or else things break besides spokes (hub or rim). Too thin of a spoke makes the wheel flexy, and spokes give way first.

 

[NeilP]

What is the gross weight of the vehicle, and the weight or thickness of the rim?

Until I find the rim I can't tell for sure, I am on the lookout for one now, Plenty around, just a mater of getting one collected and checked out.

. A single cross would likely be the only lacing possible.

Yes probably, depends if the one I find has dimples to suit or is a straight drill. I have seen both locally, it just depends on what turns up

 

[Drunkskunk]

For a motorcycle rim I'd use 11 to 12 gague depending on the weight and thikness of the rim.
I use 2.7mm 11 gauge on my Puegeot with 17" steel rims. Its solid but a little stiff with only one passanger. Its fine with a passanger on the back seat.