Wheelchair Conversion, Brush 36v or Brushless 24v?

[alpharalpha]

Hello,

I am looking to convert my wheelchair to electric and have different options. Going with Golden Motors both brush and brushless are 250w each tire, but the Brush controller is 24v/36v while the Brushless is only 24v. Both also have 50 amp on controller. I am more familiar with the Brush motors as that's what's on my e-bike (the controller price is less for the brush as well.) Will I get comparable performance with a 24v brushless setup that I'd get with a 36v brush one? If my controller gets fried is it going to be more difficult setting something up with a brushless setup? I can sort of envision rigging 2 brush controllers to a split 18v each tire battery pack, but with brushless I don't know much about it. Another option is a used alber kit that goes by 2 pole and 4 pole, does this convert to anything like Brush and Brushless, if not can anyone explain what this means? I know the Alber kit runs to separate 12v battery packs, where the Golden motor controller runs dual to one pack. Could I setup the alber kit to 18v packs or would it have to be exactly 12v? I have 36v of 3.2v x 35ah lifepo4 cells from my e-bike that I can use while recovering (accident not e-bike related, oddly enough just tripped at home.) Merry Christmas and Happy New Years!

 

[spdas]

aloha, here is my rig that I am building. 48v or 60v(maybe) Hydraulic brakes with a XTR mono-shock Wheel chair

francis

 

[alpharalpha]

That's a nice setup. I would like to do something like that one day but for now I have a reclining wheelchair with elevated footrests I just need to go 5-10 mph around town everything is within a few miles on sidewalks mostly so a couple of 24" hub motor wheels will be fine. When I first posted I was thinking of getting the max out of it but then I thought about it and realized how fast 15-25 mph is on my e-bike and decided the two 180w brushless wheels running on 24v is plenty. And now have a basic idea about 2 pole (faster) and 4 pole (more torque) but doesn't relate to brush or brushless (or so I gather from the bit I've read.) Merry Christmas!

 

[amberwolf]

2 and 4 pole are both brushed. double poles is half speed but twice torque, if all else about the motor and controller is identical.

In my experiences with brushed powerchair motors, the type with cylindrical motors on gearboxes that have the wheel mount to the axle of the gearbox, and the gearbox clamp to the frame of teh chair, vs typical ebike-type brushless hubmotors made as 24v systems, those brushed systems have way more startup torque (but they also pull much more startup current and heat up faster).

I have one brushless 24v powerchair motor meant to run small diameter wheels, and it has some massive torque if supplied with enough current, as it is built about like an x540x series "killer" hubmotor, but wound for low speed. There's a thread about it somewhere in this subforum, BLDC powerchair motor I think it's titled.

So if that's the type you're thinking of, then either system would be pretty good, as long as your batteries can handle the amps needed (takes a lot at lower voltages), and you have a controller that can dish them out, too.


As for the alber kit, I don't know--but if their controller is limited to a specific voltage, it might be a good idea to honor that limit, unless you can buy a replacement.

The catch with any wheelchair stuff is that if you don't use a two-motor type controller that works with a joystick (or similar directional control throttle), you would have to design and build your own input to two separate single-motor controllers, so that you can steer using the motors easily.

If you have both hands free and working well, then you can use bicycle type controllers and throttles, and learn to steer with them one on each hand (I sometimes do this on my SB cruiser trike, but it also steers with the front wheel, which a wheelchair like yours cant' do). But you'd have to practice that and get it down to a natural reaction before riding out where you mgiht get squished, like on sidewalks, if you went off the path and tipped over.

 

[alpharalpha]

Happy New Year!

Amberwolf, I think I found the thread you mentioned: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=32838 whatever happened with that project?

I do have an idea for a dual control throttle, don't know how well it would work in practice but I would take 2 throttles mounted right next to each other, then rubberband them together tightly so they'd move forward but if I push more on one or the other the 'chair would turn as more power goes to whatever wheel.

Supposedly, my HiPower Lifepo4 cells can do bursts of 10c due to being water based instead of oil but I wouldn't want to test it out as they are holding up nicely otherwise. I haven't ridden the bike since I broke my leg in Oct' and they cells are all holding the same charge.

Just out of curiosity what would anyone here consider doing with a 'chair like mine? There's a seller with a new 12" kit that has the same type controller as the Golden Motor 24" wheel kit; I'd have to fabricate a bracket to hold the wheels under the chair and put the battery on top to hold it down better, it's new and over half price as new. Then there's the used Alber 24" kit I like this one as it has pneumatic tires and just attaches easily. Since these are pole motors I guess they're brushed and later on I could increase the voltage if the controller died etc. They are 110v ea and the other 12" ones are 180 ea but brushless.
I also could purchase an electric wheelchair used but in like new condition as I live in FL and they're plentiful, for example there is a Jazzy Select GT I can get for around $300 and I see the chair comes right off and I could mount it under my chair easily enough (I don't like the look and feel of regular electric wheelchairs.)
Thanks and Happy New Year!

 

[amberwolf]

Amberwolf, I think I found the thread you mentioned: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=32838 whatever happened with that project?

I still have the motor (not sure about the controller); it wasnt' in the room the fire happened in. Because of that and other intervening events, it's still sitting there, waiting for me to get a chance to try it on something.

If I had a pair of them, I'd probably have already either made a pusher trailer, or used them on the SB Cruiser trike. I'd have to make wheels and/or mounts to use regular wheels for them, or a chain drive to the bike wheels, both of which add complication and are why I didn't get to trying it originally on CrazyBike2.

I do have an idea for a dual control throttle, don't know how well it would work in practice but I would take 2 throttles mounted right next to each other, then rubberband them together tightly so they'd move forward but if I push more on one or the other the 'chair would turn as more power goes to whatever wheel.

The rubberbands may tend to cause them to stick at the level of throttle you set, or near it, so you may wanna test that idea off-ground first.

Supposedly, my HiPower Lifepo4 cells can do bursts of 10c due to being water based instead of oil but I wouldn't want to test it out as they are holding up nicely otherwise. I haven't ridden the bike since I broke my leg in Oct' and they cells are all holding the same charge.

I don't know what "water based instead of oil" is supposed to mean; AFAIK all the LiFePO4 type cells will use very similar electrolytes.

Any cell can do a "burst" of hi-C-rate power vs it's normal C-rate, but how long that can be and how much voltage sag it has as a result varies a fair bit between different kinds and sizes. Also, the more discharged the cell is, the worse taht sag can be, and if you have a BMS it may (probably will) trigger LVC. If you don't have a BMS and the cells are low enough, and the sag is big enough, it could sag far below the lowest voltage the cells are supposed to be taken down to.

Then there's the used Alber 24" kit View attachment 1 I like this one as it has pneumatic tires and just attaches easily. Since these are pole motors I guess they're brushed and later on I could increase the voltage if the controller died etc. They are 110v ea

110V? AC or DC rating? If they're brushed they'll work either way, but if they are AC rated, they will only spin one way unless you make a contactor to switch the field windings, so you cant' back up with the motors.

I also could purchase an electric wheelchair used but in like new condition as I live in FL and they're plentiful, for example there is a Jazzy Select GT I can get for around $300 and I see the chair comes right off and I could mount it under my chair easily enough (I don't like the look and feel of regular electric wheelchairs.) !

[/quote]
I have one similar to that, and it's pretty slow; needs new batteries as the SLA in it are long dead. Was gonna use my ThunderSky 60Ah cells but they are not callled ThunderSag for no reason.

 

[alpharalpha]

Well, I'm healing up from my broken leg now. But the seller who had the electric wheelchair kit finally got back to me, do you think it'd be worth a couple hundred bucks just to complete the project, could be fun. This is it, it also has the controller, joystick, all but the batteries which I have. I think each tire is 110w, believe they're brushed. Oh, one more possible use for them in the future, since I believe they are the same type of tires that go on tricycles couldn't I later on put them on a trike and overvolt them. Just thinking, it's late at night.