Where I can buy kit with R/C mini motor?
- Thread starter iperov
- Start date
Dauntless
100 TW
You're rather unclear about what you're looking for. Are you saying you wish to use some radio control motor to build a bike? I'm not aware of any ready made kit. Oh, are there ever extensive threads on the subject of putting that together on THESE boards.
As for example:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=12196&p=587636#p587636
Keep reading, there's alternate ideas, links to parts, all in all what Endless Sphere regards as a ready to install kit.
You can find info here on gearboxes and reduction, you can first learn a bit at http://www.instructables.com/id/Understanding-Motor-and-Gearbox-Design/?ALLSTEPS Maybe you can read our threads and come up with a great step forward. Or go for the simplest after being scared from all the reading. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=40062&p=586248
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=29359
And I'm thrilled with this little toy http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=8644
Someday I'm going to accomplish something good enough of my own to post up here, in the meantime I'm learning about what others are doing to catch up. You build what someone else here has already built, you'll have the first on your block.
As for example:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=12196&p=587636#p587636
Keep reading, there's alternate ideas, links to parts, all in all what Endless Sphere regards as a ready to install kit.
You can find info here on gearboxes and reduction, you can first learn a bit at http://www.instructables.com/id/Understanding-Motor-and-Gearbox-Design/?ALLSTEPS Maybe you can read our threads and come up with a great step forward. Or go for the simplest after being scared from all the reading. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=40062&p=586248
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=29359
And I'm thrilled with this little toy http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=8644
Someday I'm going to accomplish something good enough of my own to post up here, in the meantime I'm learning about what others are doing to catch up. You build what someone else here has already built, you'll have the first on your block.
Philistine
100 kW
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2010
- Messages
- 1,736
Do you mean like the Recumpence type drive? http://www.recumbents.com/WISIL/shumaker/e-cumbent2.htm
Dauntless
100 TW
The fact is they're starting to print warnings against using these motors for anything other than the RC plane/car/boat they built it for. Maybe someday someone will build bike specific outrunner motors, but there'll never be an RC specific plug and play kit for an ebike.
Dude, you don't NEED a kit, you can put these things together. Just watch the video and you'll want one bad enough to get started.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=22551&hilit=hill+helper
[youtube]kixXYzsk36Q[/youtube]
Dude, you don't NEED a kit, you can put these things together. Just watch the video and you'll want one bad enough to get started.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=22551&hilit=hill+helper
[youtube]kixXYzsk36Q[/youtube]
Dauntless
100 TW
Dang, ANOTHER use I'm sure the manufacturer won't approve of. Let's just say if you want to use the Turnigy for anything but RC, you're an envelope pusher. Envelope pushing doesn't come in kits or spray cans. They don't call it Endless sPhere for nothing.
[youtube]vY9fDz7OC2Y[/youtube]
[youtube]vY9fDz7OC2Y[/youtube]
Dauntless
100 TW
Well, first of all, they would only print brackets, etc. That's not a whole kit. You would still need to follow those links and build your own throttle, etc.
The mount they print you would be. . .questionable. Using the layers of ABS makes a part that is stronger in one direction than another. It's not the same as ABS that has been cast, injection molded, or mechanically thermoformed, solid in all directions with a grain structure. Such printed parts break. There's another 3D method that seems to be gaining popularity where the layers are formed by powder being pulled over the print area while the nozzle sprays superglue to create a stronger part, but that hasn't pulled even with traditional part making methods. You probably get a stronger mount by using wood.
The mount they print you would be. . .questionable. Using the layers of ABS makes a part that is stronger in one direction than another. It's not the same as ABS that has been cast, injection molded, or mechanically thermoformed, solid in all directions with a grain structure. Such printed parts break. There's another 3D method that seems to be gaining popularity where the layers are formed by powder being pulled over the print area while the nozzle sprays superglue to create a stronger part, but that hasn't pulled even with traditional part making methods. You probably get a stronger mount by using wood.
Hillhater
100 TW
iperov said:
Why do you want to use an "RC" Turnigy, type motor ??
there are better suited , cheaper more efficient motors available, some in kits ready to go.
People get too fixated with the Turnigy /RC stuff which is not always suitable for Ebikes.
Have you considered this.. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=42785
Dauntless
100 TW
Well, you offer him 450 watts while the Turnigy has the allure of seeming to promise 10-15 times that. If you can get it without blowing everything up.
Plus the Turnigy's sure to seem to be the cutting edge. Or maybe the bleeding edge. Even the BURNING edge. You just have to remember that if you're making sport with RC motors on your bike, you're playing with fire. Right, Mr. Sauty? Maybe 450 watts shouldn't sound so bad to a beginner.
Plus the Turnigy's sure to seem to be the cutting edge. Or maybe the bleeding edge. Even the BURNING edge. You just have to remember that if you're making sport with RC motors on your bike, you're playing with fire. Right, Mr. Sauty? Maybe 450 watts shouldn't sound so bad to a beginner.
fizzit
10 kW
Dauntless said:Well, you offer him 450 watts while the Turnigy has the allure of seeming to promise 10-15 times that. If you can get it without blowing everything up.
Plus the Turnigy's sure to seem to be the cutting edge. Or maybe the bleeding edge. Even the BURNING edge. You just have to remember that if you're making sport with RC motors on your bike, you're playing with fire. Right, Mr. Sauty? Maybe 450 watts shouldn't sound so bad to a beginner.
That was a lipo fire... it has nothing to do with what motor he has. You seem to be using what are called FUD tactics
Dauntless
100 TW
Well, first of all, it was my understanding that it included his Astroflight motor. There was a murky closeup of it posted with that picture that was supposed to be the motor letting go. THere was even the suggestion that it was the MOTOR that started it all. Second of all, I'm don't seem to be using "Tactics" at all, I'm obviously using what are called FACTS. (Tactics? ? ? ?) There's a series of threads explaining it just the way I am, people warning people like him to turn back and forget you ever came. He deserves the truth.
Ah, you're really getting an analyst like me started. The expression "Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt" was coined by a former IBM employee to describe the IBM sales approach when they believe a new product from a competitor is better than IBM's, so they need to keep the customers from trying it. I'm not exactly selling him anything, am I? I'm giving him links to figure out how to take care of himself.
You on the other hand are using what are called ERRORS. Ooops. Why you're going tactical is beyond me.
Ah, you're really getting an analyst like me started. The expression "Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt" was coined by a former IBM employee to describe the IBM sales approach when they believe a new product from a competitor is better than IBM's, so they need to keep the customers from trying it. I'm not exactly selling him anything, am I? I'm giving him links to figure out how to take care of himself.
You on the other hand are using what are called ERRORS. Ooops. Why you're going tactical is beyond me.
Thud
1 MW
For the record, Will burned (shorted) his motor out on the track after this fire took place....the fire was a misconected battery & large enough wire & conectors to create a fire. (I was there shortly after this happend...not during the actual fire) Nice scare photo though.....Cleary a good photo of the worst case senario playing out in real life....I have dead shorted much larger lipo packs without issue(asside from KFF & exploded connectors)..but again I have a fail point designed into the packs to prevent this sort of thing.
Also, Mr SoSauty is still using & enjoying Hi output Turnigy NANOTECH batteries on all of his hub powerd e-bikes at the race track with great effect.
That said, I can't recomend any stock RC motors to anyone who doesn't have an advanced working knowledge of rc batteries & components, gearing & reductions + strong fabrication skills & a knowledge of where to get all the stuff for such a build.
I am also Not promoting any rc controllers for e-bikes.....they are unforgiving unless you have a well tuned COMPLETE set up that is bicycle specific. Nothing "off the shelf" is going to work for bolting onto a Joe-blow bicycle.
I have too many PM's from guy's using small motors, over geared & confused why it burned up or poped the controller.
All this from a guy who actually builds & sells RC reduction units to forum members.....there is no perfect set up yet.
T
Also, Mr SoSauty is still using & enjoying Hi output Turnigy NANOTECH batteries on all of his hub powerd e-bikes at the race track with great effect.
That said, I can't recomend any stock RC motors to anyone who doesn't have an advanced working knowledge of rc batteries & components, gearing & reductions + strong fabrication skills & a knowledge of where to get all the stuff for such a build.
I am also Not promoting any rc controllers for e-bikes.....they are unforgiving unless you have a well tuned COMPLETE set up that is bicycle specific. Nothing "off the shelf" is going to work for bolting onto a Joe-blow bicycle.
I have too many PM's from guy's using small motors, over geared & confused why it burned up or poped the controller.
All this from a guy who actually builds & sells RC reduction units to forum members.....there is no perfect set up yet.
T
gwhy!1
100 kW
Thud said:
I can totally go along with this, there are just to many variables to make a one-size-fits-all kit when using RC motors that was not designed for e-bike use, but when you get it right it really do pay off
recumpence
1 GW
RC motor systems are like Formula 1. It is high tech, high performance, and light weight. But, the cost is high for truely high performance, and the reliability is an issue if it is not setup perfectly by someone who knows.
And all this from a guy who builds and sells these systems to forum members.
I have seen guys get thousands of miles on a RC system without any problems (I have two bikes like this) and others who have had nothing but problems. This is the edge of the power to weight battle. There are issues involved with it, though.
Matt
And all this from a guy who builds and sells these systems to forum members.
I have seen guys get thousands of miles on a RC system without any problems (I have two bikes like this) and others who have had nothing but problems. This is the edge of the power to weight battle. There are issues involved with it, though.
Matt
Dauntless
100 TW
If the worst case scenario can happen, then it can happen to you. Anyone who persists in talking about "Plug and Play" for RC motor drives is in need of a bigger scare than I could dish out. I give him all those links for building but he keeps insisting "No, I wish to just be blithely naive about it all."
I've gone a bit nuts with these things. In addition to a selection of sizes intended to be too small to live through it, I have 12 80100's, 6 8085's, 5 6364's, all intended to survive. Meanwhile, the 4255's are supposed to do the impossible and make it look easy. I mean, if they keep going where the 3548's failed, that's an accomplishment, right?
But I'm not building a commuter vehicle. I'm building f1 racers, as mentioned. Yeah, gotta make some progress, but I keep wasting my time on those classes when I could be just be out having fun, right?
rscamp
1 kW
I don't have an R/C drive (yet), but based on my experience selecting motors and gearing for large helis and knowing the differences in motor load vs speed between driving a propeller in air vs a high inertia load such as a bike with a human on it, I would say this:
1. If you don't know where your bike and performance expectations will put the motor on its efficiency curve for the bulk of the time then don't get an R/C system. If you don't even know you need to worry about this, don't even think of getting an R/C system.
2. If you want lots of 'pulling' torque at low throttle settings, you are going to have a bad time.
1. If you don't know where your bike and performance expectations will put the motor on its efficiency curve for the bulk of the time then don't get an R/C system. If you don't even know you need to worry about this, don't even think of getting an R/C system.
2. If you want lots of 'pulling' torque at low throttle settings, you are going to have a bad time.
fizzit
10 kW
rscamp said:I don't have an R/C drive (yet), but based on my experience selecting motors and gearing for large helis and knowing the differences in motor load vs speed between driving a propeller in air vs a high inertia load such as a bike with a human on it, I would say this:
1. If you don't know where your bike and performance expectations will put the motor on its efficiency curve for the bulk of the time then don't get an R/C system. If you don't even know you need to worry about this, don't even think of getting an R/C system.
2. If you want lots of 'pulling' torque at low throttle settings, you are going to have a bad time.
Sorry, you're wrong. My bike pulls easy power wheelies from 1-2mph and that is with a sensorless controller, at less than 25% throttle. It all depends upon your gearing and factors like winding and voltage, you can't just make blanket statements like that and be anywhere near correct. Bikes are a heck of a lot different from helicopters. You don't need to know about efficiency curves and such unless you are really pushing the power envelope. Just gear it right and you should be fine. I am not saying that RC drives are anywhere near plug and play, but some of these myths are ridiculous.
rscamp
1 kW
My wording was strong, granted. But the point of operation on the efficiency curve is often ignored and failures are the result. Of course gearing is key. Of course the winding and motor size, construction and number of turns are key. This is the whole point. These need to be set appropriately for the usage profile.
It is easy to get this wrong when not purchasing an off-the-shelf system. The fact that yours 'works' without failure just means that your system doesn't violate the basic design requirements - by luck or by design . It doesn't mean everyone else who tries to put together a system on their own will be as successful.
Consider also that this is in the context of continuous load where very high levels of waste heat are not accommodated by reduced duty cycle. Where the system operates relative to peak efficiency for the bulk of the time is very key. If it is on the wrong side, the motor destroys itself with heat. Period.
It is easy to get this wrong when not purchasing an off-the-shelf system. The fact that yours 'works' without failure just means that your system doesn't violate the basic design requirements - by luck or by design . It doesn't mean everyone else who tries to put together a system on their own will be as successful.
Consider also that this is in the context of continuous load where very high levels of waste heat are not accommodated by reduced duty cycle. Where the system operates relative to peak efficiency for the bulk of the time is very key. If it is on the wrong side, the motor destroys itself with heat. Period.
rearengine
100 W
DAUNTLESS... Just a picture to show the HILL HELPER as it is now ... Lighter,and less complex.. I'm running off the can now ,and it's working fine.... Thanks for the attention in the first posts.. Bill
recumpence
1 GW
The issue Rob is getting at is not low RPM torque, but low RPM problems with sensorless controllers. Yes, you can pull power wheelies from very low speeds with one. However, try climbing up a long hill (steep hill) at low RPM and high loading and you will blow the controller.........
Trust me, no-one is as positive about RC drives as I am. But, there are known issues with them (as there are issues with everything ever made by man). Nothing is perfect. The issue is, are the drawbacks worth the benefits? Or better stated, does your riding style make the drawbacks a deal breaker?
Matt
Trust me, no-one is as positive about RC drives as I am. But, there are known issues with them (as there are issues with everything ever made by man). Nothing is perfect. The issue is, are the drawbacks worth the benefits? Or better stated, does your riding style make the drawbacks a deal breaker?
Matt
flyinmonkie
10 kW
No need to scare anyone off any type of system. Give people the facts and let them decide what is right for them. The facts should include the dangers, but in a clear and truthful way. Also, make sure your facts are correct before laying them out as gospel.
As for what type of system is best for your bike, it depends totally on where and how you will ride. As for what system you want on your bike, it depends on the last statement as well as what sort of challenge you want in design and building it.
If you are commuting on mostly flat terrain and want a plug and play set up, then a hub kit will be just fine. Especially if you do not have great fabricating skills, or little to no access to tools. If you want more power or have some hills to deal with, then over volting a hub motor could still be the way to go. Read up here to see what works and what doesn't as far as over volting goes. I recommend looking at hyena's threads and GCinDc's threads for a start.
If you have steep hills or want the challenge of a mid drive, then there are a lot of options in motors and setups. Most kits will need a new bracket fabricated as the stock ones are pretty crap. If you spend more money, then the brackets can be better like the ego kit. It seems to be a lot of money for what you get though. You can use a cyclone motor and fabricate your own bracket. There are many great examples of those on the forum as well. You can also use a hub motor as a mid drive. bzhwindtalker or whiplash have good examples. If you are set on a rc motor, then recumpence is the man to talk to. He has the closest to an off the shelf kit as you can get. Remember it is very custom still. There are also many great examples of how to make them work as well as how to not make them work on the forum. aussiejester has good examples of both.
No matter what system you use, it will be a lot of trial and error. It will cost more than you think, you burn up controllers and motors. You will go through batteries. So do your research on all of them. If you decide to use lipo and haven't yet read as much as you can about them. Do not break the rules with them, and spend the extra money on a quality charger.
It is an addictive and fun hobby so don't let anyone turn you off or tell you you can't. Just know what you are getting into.
Clay
As for what type of system is best for your bike, it depends totally on where and how you will ride. As for what system you want on your bike, it depends on the last statement as well as what sort of challenge you want in design and building it.
If you are commuting on mostly flat terrain and want a plug and play set up, then a hub kit will be just fine. Especially if you do not have great fabricating skills, or little to no access to tools. If you want more power or have some hills to deal with, then over volting a hub motor could still be the way to go. Read up here to see what works and what doesn't as far as over volting goes. I recommend looking at hyena's threads and GCinDc's threads for a start.
If you have steep hills or want the challenge of a mid drive, then there are a lot of options in motors and setups. Most kits will need a new bracket fabricated as the stock ones are pretty crap. If you spend more money, then the brackets can be better like the ego kit. It seems to be a lot of money for what you get though. You can use a cyclone motor and fabricate your own bracket. There are many great examples of those on the forum as well. You can also use a hub motor as a mid drive. bzhwindtalker or whiplash have good examples. If you are set on a rc motor, then recumpence is the man to talk to. He has the closest to an off the shelf kit as you can get. Remember it is very custom still. There are also many great examples of how to make them work as well as how to not make them work on the forum. aussiejester has good examples of both.
No matter what system you use, it will be a lot of trial and error. It will cost more than you think, you burn up controllers and motors. You will go through batteries. So do your research on all of them. If you decide to use lipo and haven't yet read as much as you can about them. Do not break the rules with them, and spend the extra money on a quality charger.
It is an addictive and fun hobby so don't let anyone turn you off or tell you you can't. Just know what you are getting into.
Clay
rscamp
1 kW
Points 1. and 2. above can compound. In an electric motor, current is tantamount to torque. High torque at low throttle heats the motor AND is hard on the ESC. And at lower throttle efficiency gets worse. And, and....
No need to be defensive about R/C drives. I'm all for them and will soon have one. This is just a caution not to apply them without knowing what you are getting into. I've got a long 10% incline hill I'll be climbing and you can bet I'll be careful with the setup to avoid running it at a poor efficiency point above peak efficiency and/or at low throttle. If I don't think about the consequences and make appropriate adjustments I will have a bad time...
Edit: You don't HAVE to burn up controllers to play with this stuff. If you do burn up controllers, you aren't doing it right. And you WILL burn up motors and overheat motors if you don't do your homework or at least follow some basic guidelines. Why waste a lot of money learning the hard way? Find out ahead of time...
No need to be defensive about R/C drives. I'm all for them and will soon have one. This is just a caution not to apply them without knowing what you are getting into. I've got a long 10% incline hill I'll be climbing and you can bet I'll be careful with the setup to avoid running it at a poor efficiency point above peak efficiency and/or at low throttle. If I don't think about the consequences and make appropriate adjustments I will have a bad time...
Edit: You don't HAVE to burn up controllers to play with this stuff. If you do burn up controllers, you aren't doing it right. And you WILL burn up motors and overheat motors if you don't do your homework or at least follow some basic guidelines. Why waste a lot of money learning the hard way? Find out ahead of time...
