Which controller for 30amp continuous battery query

[electricboard1]

I am building an electric mini standup quad/golf buggy/ beach cart multi-purpose vehicle and looking at Vesc programmable controllers to adjust the throttle curves ect

I have a Greenlance 48v 30amp continuous lithium hailong battery (Samsung cells) and 1000w my1020 Brushless motor

What amp controller can I use with this battery?
Am I safe to use something like this?..

FLIPSKY FSESC 6.7 PRO​

Which has 60amp continuous and 100amp max?

If its programmable can I set this controller up to work with my 30amp max continuous battery?
Or will I damage the battery with a higher rated amp controller?

My thinking was to get a controller bigger than I need so I won't be straining it at all. Or should I be matching the amp of controller to the max amp of my battery?

Can anyone explain as simply as possible what is safe and what isn't with controllers and battery amp ratings ect and programmable controllers as I'm not that familiar with this kind of stuff

 

[scianiac]

Yes it's a good idea to get a more powerful controller than you need and set it to a lower limit, will run cooler and more efficient. VESC current ratings are motor phase amp current ratings and not battery amps which are not the same, that is the phase amps can be higher than the battery amps at any given time depending on various factors. For this case it doesn't really matter since the phase amp rating is twice that of the battery with a higher peak so that won't limit you. You just want to set the battery current limit in VESC to 30A or less and the phase current limit somewhat higher like to 60A to get all the torque available (assuming the motor can handle it).

In terms of safety that is always a relative thing. But some general ideas:
An inline fuse if the battery doesn't have one never hurts as a backup just in case.
Make sure the braking current (if using regen braking) is set to a reasonable level for the battery, which will be much lower than 30A.
A temp sensor on the motor is also a good idea so the VESC can reduce power if it's overheating.
Make sure the controller is reasonably cooled but still waterproofed.
Start at a lower phase amp setting and step it up to make sure the motor is running well and was detected properly.

 

[electricboard1]

Yes it's a good idea to get a more powerful controller than you need and set it to a lower limit, will run cooler and more efficient. VESC current ratings are motor phase amp current ratings and not battery amps which are not the same, that is the phase amps can be higher than the battery amps at any given time depending on various factors. For this case it doesn't really matter since the phase amp rating is twice that of the battery with a higher peak so that won't limit you. You just want to set the battery current limit in VESC to 30A or less and the phase current limit somewhat higher like to 60A to get all the torque available (assuming the motor can handle it).

In terms of safety that is always a relative thing. But some general ideas:
An inline fuse if the battery doesn't have one never hurts as a backup just in case.
Make sure the braking current (if using regen braking) is set to a reasonable level for the battery, which will be much lower than 30A.
A temp sensor on the motor is also a good idea so the VESC can reduce power if it's overheating.
Make sure the controller is reasonably cooled but still waterproofed.
Start at a lower phase amp setting and step it up to make sure the motor is running well and was detected properly.

Ok that's great advice thanks

Any advice on that controller?

Or more suitable controller?

I have been looking at the Votol, and Flipsky controllers, which would be my best choice for a simple programmable controller which will allow for smooth slow speed acceleration adjustments?
I'm new to all this so if anyone can recommend anything that would be great

 

[scianiac]

That is kind of a tricky question, neither of those options are "simple" but simple and programmable are kinda the opposite when it comes to controllers. I don't have any experience with Votol but I have not heard they are easy to program, literally just posted in this thread. VESC I would say is easier and most of the time pretty straightforward but it's not a plug and play setup and sometimes some tuning is required. That being said as long as your willing to learn the VESC support is pretty good and people are pretty helpful if you get stuck. VESC offers a number of different throttle curve options that will allow for good low speed control but I think really a key part to that is using an easy to control throttle for the application and correct gearing. You want to make sure you have a good gearing for the vehicle and conditions or it's going to be terrible at low speed if geared too high.

As for that VESC specifically, for some reason it doesn't say if it has phase filters, their other "PRO" versions seem to have them while the regular versions don't. The newer Flipsky controllers see better than the old ones, I would guess they are probably on par with other cheap VESCs but still a far cry from the premium VESCs. How much that matters is hard to say and probably more comes down to budget. Cheap VESCs are not as good as premium ones but they do work, just a little bit less reliable, a little bit less durable, a little bit more finicky to tune, can't be overdriven as hard, etc.

 

[Chalo]

Yes it's a good idea to get a more powerful controller than you need and set it to a lower limit, will run cooler and more efficient.

It's also good to do that with your battery, for cycle life and cell balance.

In all my systems, the controller is the bottleneck. I want a motor that can take more power than the controller can give, to diminish chances of overheating. And I want a battery that can blast way more amps than anything else in the system wants, so it's just loafing when I'm driving hard. If the controller gets a little warm or at very worst gives up? No big deal. It's the cheapest and easiest to replace component of the three.

 

[E-HP]

The website has two batteries with 30A BMSs. A 13AH, likely using 26J cells, and a 10Ah likely using 25R cells. Which did you get?

The 13Ah pack, 13S5P, can output 5x5.2 = 26A continuous, so less than the BMS rating.

E-Bike Battery Samsung Electric Bike Battery 48V 13AH

18650 Samsung Li-Ion Cells 2600mAh High-Quality Electric Bike Battery. We provide outstanding performance and longevity to exceed expectations.

greenlance.co.uk

The 10Ah pack, 13S4P, can output 4x20 = 80A continuous. This is odd, since the BMS is 30A.

Electric Bike Battery 48V 10AH 18650 Samsung Cells

18650 Samsung Li-Ion Cells 2500mAh High-Quality Electric Bike Battery. We provide outstanding performance and longevity to exceed expectations.

greenlance.co.uk

If you have the latter, then 30A would be no problem, and probably little to no voltage sag at 30A. You could run it until the BMS trips and not hurt those cells, but 10Ah won't be a lot of range. I'd ask the seller for the cell model number.

 

[electricboard1]

That is kind of a tricky question, neither of those options are "simple" but simple and programmable are kinda the opposite when it comes to controllers. I don't have any experience with Votol but I have not heard they are easy to program, literally just posted in this thread. VESC I would say is easier and most of the time pretty straightforward but it's not a plug and play setup and sometimes some tuning is required. That being said as long as your willing to learn the VESC support is pretty good and people are pretty helpful if you get stuck. VESC offers a number of different throttle curve options that will allow for good low speed control but I think really a key part to that is using an easy to control throttle for the application and correct gearing. You want to make sure you have a good gearing for the vehicle and conditions or it's going to be terrible at low speed if geared too high.

As for that VESC specifically, for some reason it doesn't say if it has phase filters, their other "PRO" versions seem to have them while the regular versions don't. The newer Flipsky controllers see better than the old ones, I would guess they are probably on par with other cheap VESCs but still a far cry from the premium VESCs. How much that matters is hard to say and probably more comes down to budget. Cheap VESCs are not as good as premium ones but they do work, just a little bit less reliable, a little bit less durable, a little bit more finicky to tune, can't be overdriven as hard, etc.

Thanks, ok so I should make sure the controller I get has phase filtering, will do that

 

[electricboard1]

It's also good to do that with your battery, for cycle life and cell balance.

In all my systems, the controller is the bottleneck. I want a motor that can take more power than the controller can give, to diminish chances of overheating. And I want a battery that can blast way more amps than anything else in the system wants, so it's just loafing when I'm driving hard. If the controller gets a little warm or at very worst gives up? No big deal. It's the cheapest and easiest to replace component of the three.

Yes this makes sense I should really have got a bigger amp battery to start with but didn't really think about this at the time when purchasing

 

[electricboard1]

The website has two batteries with 30A BMSs. A 13AH, likely using 26J cells, and a 10Ah likely using 25R cells. Which did you get?

The 13Ah pack, 13S5P, can output 5x5.2 = 26A continuous, so less than the BMS rating.

E-Bike Battery Samsung Electric Bike Battery 48V 13AH

18650 Samsung Li-Ion Cells 2600mAh High-Quality Electric Bike Battery. We provide outstanding performance and longevity to exceed expectations.

greenlance.co.uk

The 10Ah pack, 13S4P, can output 4x20 = 80A continuous. This is odd, since the BMS is 30A.

Electric Bike Battery 48V 10AH 18650 Samsung Cells

18650 Samsung Li-Ion Cells 2500mAh High-Quality Electric Bike Battery. We provide outstanding performance and longevity to exceed expectations.

greenlance.co.uk

If you have the latter, then 30A would be no problem, and probably little to no voltage sag at 30A. You could run it until the BMS trips and not hurt those cells, but 10Ah won't be a lot of range. I'd ask the seller for the cell model number.

Ok thanks, I actually have the 13ah version

So based on that would I just make sure I adjust the max current to about 30 amp on Vesc settings?

 

[E-HP]

That should be OK, but in practice I’d keep the output below 25A most of the time.

 

[electricboard1]

That should be OK, but in practice I’d keep the output below 25A most of the time.

Ok Thanks

So for example this controller..

Flipsky 75100 Pro V2.0​

Has phase filtering and looks a good spec for what I need but asks for 10awg wiring? my current setup is all 12awg cables but if I'm going to limit the max amp on the settings to 25amps to work with my battery is the 10awg needed? Or would I be ok to stick to the 12awg ?

Is it only recommended to use 10awg cables to use this controller to its full potential? Which obviously I can't due to the battery being only having a 30amp bms

Or would I need to rewire my motor, battery and everything with 10AWG cables to use this?

Or should I be looking for a smaller controller for my setup with 12awg?

 

[E-HP]

I'd use the stock conductors, go out and tear up the street for a while, then feel the conductors. I doubt you'll feel anything that would cause concern, but if so, you could always upgrade them later.

 

[electricboard1]

I'd use the stock conductors, go out and tear up the street for a while, then feel the conductors. I doubt you'll feel anything that would cause concern, but if so, you could always upgrade them later.

Ok thanks