Who has bought EM3EV's bicycle frames and how do you like it

markz

markz

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Here is the link,
http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=47&product_id=209

I stumbled upon it again when I was buying some ebike stuff. Add to the price of $499USD, $131.50 for delivery, converted to my currency is $910 Canadian Dollars.

EM3EV bicycle frame.jpg
What's Included?

One frameset includes: main frame structure (including plastic covers, fittings etc), swingarm with integrated pinching torque arms, headset, 100mm bottom bracket, seatpost platform, plus all bolts washers and accesssories to assemble these parts together.

What's NOT Included?

The frameset does not include: Seat post, seat, bars, suspension components, crank, chainwheel, gearset, wheels, motor or any electrical parts.


Key Points:

Weight - 10kg with all bolts and plastic (shipping weight 12.7kg, equivalent volume weight is ~20kg).

Materials - 2mm Q235A steel tubes, 4mm ABS+PMMA plastic, high strength steel bolts and aluminum anodized bolts for side covers.
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Its nice, but I can always get my hands on nice frames for a cheap price. Just wondering whos been riding it and how they like it.
If I were to buy an e-bike kit on a budget, this would be the one. If I had the doe, of course I'd buy something else.
 
Its an EEB frame, cheaper if ordered direct, but you would lose Em3ev support. Yes, the same as Roadrash''s. Well boiled topic discussed here:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=74581&hilit=eeb

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73092&hilit=eeb
 
EEB frame?

The only one I saw on Aliexpress was $650 + s/h ($150)

Whats the point of getting one, the large battery container and the rear dropouts?
 
Its a commuter, not really an offroader for MTB fans. But loads of space for batteries and a cheap price.
 
i purchased one of these frames and like it so far. i only have about 20 miles on the street (no off road quite yet)

it seems well built and rides well with a large battery centralized and low in the frame. also it has reinforced and clamping dropouts which are perfect for a high powered hub.

mxus 3000 motor (with ferrofluid)
36fet 4110 controller
20s 20ah lipo battery

12kw peak and about 100lbs (need to check the scale...heavier than my last bike but i can still carry it up the stairs)

12654643_10153918766098979_1964135175824397264_n.jpg


12645193_10153918766388979_2316228060046082357_n.jpg


943926_10153918766708979_325878979413982089_n.jpg
 
I've built/been involved with building three bikes with this frame from Paul now.

Overall I like the frame, everyone seems to like the look of it. Plenty of room inside and easy to modify with charging points etc(I ended up going with speakon)

The only issue I have run into is the headset that Paul provides is an adaptable one so you can use 1.5" tapered and standard size forks.

That's fine but I've found that on braking, the force on the bottom of the headset is such that the forks can wobble about. If you compress the headset more to stop the wobble than steering becomes too tight.

You can balance it out but it's a bit of a faff.

I have bought a hope headset reducer which I have yet to try, but hoping that should make the setup more solid.

Oh and sometimes you need to file a bit of paint off the inside of the bolt hole that holds the bottom of the rear shock to get the bolt through, minor thing though.

Kudos
 
From a technical mtb point of view that swing arm isn't for offroading. But it's a good commuter.
 
Poor rising and falling rate. That's an old stealth.

And even a stealth is no match for a vpp linkage system. But these are covered by patents owned by Specialized etc. Modifying a used high end frame is the only way to get an enduro bike's handling.
 
Poor rising and falling rates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_suspension

China can copy stuff. That doesnt make them engineers. I'm not gonna hand them - or Russia the answer. They need to get out and ride.
If you want an all mountain bike that handles like a professional mountain bike start with a used bike that's won a world cup. So much R&D out there we aren't taking advatage of.

A 2008-2010 Norco Aline, DH Comp or Spesh Demo will always surpass the sort of frames we are welding up here with single swingarms. Thats why lots of us still modify for our own use. There's no money to be made in it - but you get the ferrari of offroad ebikes.

To be clear here there is nothing wrong with the frames in this thread, or even Stealth. They are good. They'll never be great though.
 
Guess it depends whether you want someone else to make you an ebike specific, suspension correct frame from factory or whether you want to keep modifying them yourself. Despite the criticism of Arthur etc al. the reality is they are attempting to make frames the way people actually want them at a reasonable price...
 
Thats kind of my thought pattern too Samd, I will just buy a used DH or XC bike with the style of rear suspension that allows great use of the traingle for battery placement.

I think these frames, like the EM3EV, look to motorcycle 'ish which is never what I want any glancing eye to pop into their minds as its ridden in parks and pathways alongside pedestrians. Thats my ultimate goal, ride on the road, on pathways and in the parks. Just a regular Joe biking and "fake pedaling" up hills. 8)
 
Lurkin said:
Despite the criticism of Arthur etc al. the reality is they are attempting to make frames the way people actually want them at a reasonable price...
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I don't think anyone's arguing otherwise.
If it helps make the point clear : This frame is about a 6.5/10 offroad and inexpensive, a stealth frame maybe 7.5/10 and expensive (although a flux isnt much dearer) and a complex light frame with a four bar rear link maybe 9.5/10 - but you'll need engineering skills or cash..
 
These keep cropping up on EBay too, as "Leadway F55". Bikes...complete , 3kW, 72v, 20Ahr, etc etc.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Leadway-F55-Electric-Mountain-Bike-3Kw/252064529363?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140107090050%26meid%3Dce45374496724fbfa22d62b0d05d9a1a%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D3%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D231832426128
That one is a BIN price of $6800 Australian ($4800 US ) , but also appear frequently as 24 HR no reserve auctions.
The last one sold for $1500 Au ! :shock:
 
You gotta be careful with those. You buy it. Box turns up with bricks or old SLA batteries inside. Very heavy. You sign for the consignment.
Then you lodge a paypal claim for a box of sh*t. Vendor claims you got the bike - as the consignment details show a big heavy box.
 
You're coming across as kinda haughty elitist here sam. I think your vague claims, the manner, and place you're making them (competitor thread) are all unwarranted.

Care to link some material since you can't seem to explain yourself further than 'technical' and 'poor rise/fall rates' in addition to the least technical rating systems possible? Then maybe we could have the chance at being as smart as you!

It's my belief that overall improvement on high end mountain bikes for 'offroad' is negligable for multilink over single pivot. That's of course besides the fact we're delving into lightweight 'motor' cycles here, which are nearly all single low pivot.
 
Samd said:
You gotta be careful with those. You buy it. Box turns up with bricks or old SLA batteries inside. Very heavy. You sign for the consignment.
Then you lodge a paypal claim for a box of sh*t. Vendor claims you got the bike - as the consignment details show a big heavy box.
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Oh, no worries Sam.....I'm not biting on those. I'm wise to most EBay scams.
Seller of "Leadway Australia " products...based in Belize ?? :roll:

Speaking of which...
I recently "won" an EBay item
Bafang 750w mid drive powered folding, 26", mountain bike, complete with 48v, 20Ahr Li pack.
All new , boxed, free delivery, etc etc.......all for $700 Au !
Not bad ehhh ?
Waiting for seller to contact me for payment ! :wink:
 
nutspecial said:
You're coming across as kinda haughty elitist here sam. I think your vague claims, the manner, and place you're making them (competitor thread) are all unwarranted.
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No that's you trying to settle a score over your continued assertions of chemtrails being the result of governments trying to kill people. Give it up and let your ego go. Science will always win.
Also this isn't a competitor thread - I wouldn't offer a view in an advertisement thread. The title of this thread is asking how people like these. I like them, I give them about a 6 or 7 out of ten. Good value. Not great. Good.

nutspecial said:
Care to link some material since you can't seem to explain yourself further than 'technical' and 'poor rise/fall rates' in addition to the least technical rating systems possible? Then maybe we could have the chance at being as smart as you!
Click to expand...
Yes I linked to the basic wikipedia article earlier. I mentioned BikeCAD. You could have read that but you just want to settle a score as your ego won't let go.
nutspecial said:
It's my belief that overall improvement on high end mountain bikes for 'offroad' is negligable for multilink over single pivot. That's of course besides the fact we're delving into lightweight 'motor' cycles here, which are nearly all single low pivot.
Click to expand...

Science doesn't care about your beliefs. Suggest you say "I think" not "I believe".
There's a lot of downhill riders here who acknowledge that our frames now lag commercial DH, enduro and allmountain frames by ten years.
Go join your local mountain bike group. Get into the bike stores. Invest some of your personal time in reading bike magazines. Modify a few frames - pull them apart and see what akes them tick. Grab a copy of bikeCAD and model a VPS rear end or a Horst link and look at the shape of the curve the rear shock makes. Pull apart a few rear shocks and get a feel for what is inside a DNM shock, a Fox shock , or a basic spring shock unbranded. Search endles sphere for people who have modded Giant DH frames - ask them why. Or Commencal frames, or Specialised units. Look at Timma's amazing Norco Aline mods. Try to get to group rides and experience other people's bikes over big jumps if you like to get air.

These frames are fine for the money. But you can't turn up to a serious MTB meet with one and wow anyone. They will talk about basic MTB geometry issues such as spring rate, rising rate, rebound. You need to know what these parameters are if you want a really good bike and you are interested in the continuing changes that push mountain biking (even electric MTB) forward.
 
What do spring rate and rebound have to do with chassis geometry? Those are terms used to describe suspension setup not geometry. While they can impact chassis geometry as it responds to transient inputs they have nothing to do with actual geometry. Even rising rate is more suspension term although it is determined by the rear suspension design which is a chassis component. Geometry has always meant in my experience such things as rake/trail, swingarm downslope angle, chain pull moment, thrust centerline, things of that nature. Are you sure that you know what you are talking about?

How many 125cc world championships have been won by 4-link suspensions? I haven't been following the industry for the last decade or so and they may be the hot ticket these days.... But why model after MTBs, they have always had cruder chassis and suspensions than lightweight racing motorcycles. Any ebike with over 1000w is a lot closer to an ultralight MXer than a bicycle anyway.
 
I've read in several areas that these frames are considered inferior given their geometry. I have tried to obtain geometry information from the Chinese manufacturer, only to be supplier with average information which was later contradicted anyway by EvelBike.

I've tried to verify whether the welding or steel quality is of any quality which again has been met with average responses and "oh yea man looks pretty good" from other forum members, which has told me nothing.

I really don't see how anyone can conclude that these frames are good for the price, because there's very little information about what it being obtained for that price. Further, criticism of the frames design and geometry are surrounded in vague comments without any facts. I recall reading on here of the advantages of using a single pivot system with high power ebikes is of an advantage, not a disadvantage. I'll have a search through for the post later. If that's the case, then the only real criticism of this frame is whether the angles and lengths of sections of the frame are ideal for the use and without any actual data to compare it against, I can't really see how anyone can be making the "geometry of this one is average" or "that's just old school MTB geometry" comments.

There seems to be a real fear that providing any geometry information will somehow allow Asian frame producers to instantly replicate it and produce a superior product, yet, comments seem to follow "check out this Enduro frame for geometry or suspension ideas" - there's nothing stopping a frame producer from doing this anyway and the only other effect is - a lack of providing any information that anyone else can learn from as well. If we all had this perspective, this forum would have nothing but peoples social comments to read about without any real information or data to learn from.

I've had a BMX frame fail at decent speed and I'll never buy another frame without trusting the vendor first. The headtube snapped off with the fork and I was in trouble, fast! Never again. Came very, very close to being impaled by the head-tubeless frame.

It's totally true that I have not scrutinised other frame manufacturers to the same extent, but the reality is that this frame is being manufactured in China and only average/conflicting information can be obtained about it. Contrast this with Qulbix - Ziva is very efficient at answering questions promptly, in English and without conflict. Precisely why I will probably never buy this frame.
 
I've seen two up close in Melb Lurkin - one from Croydon and the other from Werribee.
On both the welds were ok - although the gauge of the drops themselves looked a bit thin and the headsets are still oldschool narrow tube so not ideal for big drops.

Woodlands, the geometry of the rear linkage determines the rate at which the suspension is loaded and unloaded. Yep I'm pretty confident I know what I am talking about.
The title of the thread reads bicycle frame. I don't a 125cc four bar would hold up very well.

If you can't get your hands on a good 3kw light (sub 25kg) eMTB you're looking in the wrong places. There's tonnes here.
 
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