Wilderness Energy BD-36 bares all!

[lawsonuw]

Ok, just bought this motor used from another forum member. Initially it'll go in my bike as a hub motor, but my final goal for this bike to is to have a bottom bracket drive. So, this means I need to know what the inside of this motor looks like!

First pic shows my motor cracking tool of choice. Needed this chepo flywheel puller because the bearings are a tight fit to the axles. Removed the screws on the cover where the wires came out, used the puller on the OTHER side of the motor to open a gap under the cover, inserted spacers to keep that gap, then moved the puller to the cover pulling on my gap to get the cover off. Beware the bearings will slip with a loud "ping" making it sound like something broke



Next for a look at the guts! here you can see both covers and the top of the brush holder. 10-pole radial flux motor with two brushes, and rare earth magnets, not bad.



Here we see the back of the commutator.



And a Closeup of the brush holder. Everything looks good here!

View attachment 1

Here u can see the brush holder when it's out, plenty of length on those brushes. This also gives a peak at the commutator. It looks well worn but serviceable. I'll turn and polish it when I mod a side-plate for BB drive.



That's all for now folks,
Marty

 

[Dr. Shock]

Thanks, Marty. Always nice to see what's inside things.

 

[Link]

Yeah, you saved me the trouble of opening up mine .

Of course, I might do it anyway 8).

 

[recumbent]

Can you tell how many windings this motor has compared to a Crystalyte motor?

Is this motor similar to a 405 or 408 in speed. I realize it is DC and not brushless, but can we compare the windings?

Nice pictures BTW 8)

 

[Link]

I can't really see clearly enough in the pictures to make it out clearly, but it looks like six. Of course, that's something of a meaningless number, since the magnet strength is no doubt different.

Anybody know the grade of the magnets for either the WEs or the C-lytes?

 

[lawsonuw]

No clue on the number of windings, but I was told by the previous owner it's similar to a x-lyte 406. I'll be calculating gearing based on that estimation and tweaking from there when I swap to BB drive.

Marty

 

[Eric G]

Thanks for posting the well taken pictures Marty!!!

I've got a Brushed Clyte that will need the brushes changed one day and these pics will give me an idea of what to expect when I open it up.I know this is a Brushed WE motor but it can't be that much different than my Brushed Clyte.I remember reading on the Yahoo forums that Clyte made the WE motors some years ago.

Eric

 

[NatureMan50]

Cool! Same one I have. I was thinking of increasing voltage to 48. I did it once inside and the speed increased a lot. I have been worried about frying the motor tho if I took it outside. Any suggestions?

 

[Link]

Cool! Same one I have. I was thinking of increasing voltage to 48. I did it once inside and the speed increased a lot. I have been worried about frying the motor tho if I took it outside. Any suggestions?

Do it. I did it to mine (48V 33A). It pwns.

I'll be taking it to 72V (in a 20") if I have my way...8)

 

[recumbent]

I did it to mine (48V 33A)....
I'll be taking it to 72V (in a 20") if I have my way...8)

72 Volts is probly too much current for this brushed motor (the wires look thin), but a 20" wheel would definately be fun on the trails, be ready to pedal it home though.

Who knows, I haven't heard of anyone over-volting a brushed motor yet, Perhaps it has something to do with fire and melting copper bits.

 

[Link]

72 Volts is probly too much current for this brushed motor (the wires look thin), but a 20" wheel would definately be fun on the trails, be ready to pedal it home though.

Who knows, I haven't heard of anyone over-volting a brushed motor yet, Perhaps it has something to do with fire and melting copper bits.

I would only be pushing maybe 30A through it (unless I buy better than Ping batteries). You can get 50A controllers from WE. I think I'm good there. The torque would be phenomenal in a 20". 72V in that wheel would be like 40mph. That should be no problem for twinned BD36s. Think I could pull half a G that way 8)?

I overvolt brushed motors all the time. I'm already running the thing at 48V (I hear the technical specs say it's good for 96V ). The problem is really brush arcing. Too much voltage and the commutator holds an arc, feeding power to coils that aren't in position to repel/attract the magnets. They just get really hot and start causing problems.

 

[Mathurin]

Things that happened over 100 years ago are still relevant:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/power-assist/message/41642
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/power-assist/message/47239

 

[Link]

I gave up on this and took a gutted out throttle and made it into a on and off switch by drilling a hole and soldering thick liquid silver from radio shack on 12 gauge wire

LOL, that wasn't a very good idea. :lol:

Hmm, on one hand, the Golden Motor kit is looking better and better by comparison...

On the other, I already have almost everything I need (short of another BD36 and spokes for a 20") for my next project...

Decisions, decisions :?.

 

[RTLSHIP]

Are the brushes on the side without the power cord? I just want to replace BD-36_ brushes without tinkering. I bought a brush kit. Help appreciated. thanks

 

[Link]

No. They're on the commutator plate side.

You can get at them without taking apart the motor, however. Removing the entire assembly will expose the brushes. Make marks on it and the stator to note how they were aligned, however, because putting it back at a different angle will mess with the timing.

 

[lawsonuw]

Are the brushes on the side without the power cord? I just want to replace BD-36_ brushes without tinkering. I bought a brush kit. Help appreciated. thanks

If you look closely at the pictures, they show how the power cord enters the motor via a slot in the axle and connects to the brushes. If access to the brushes and holder is all that's wanted, just take off the motor cover on the same side as the power cord.

Marty

 

[RTLSHIP]

Thanks for the info. I read brush replacement job was just a bunch of allen bolts. No one said anything about marking the position of brushes realative to stator. Also, I was erroneously told the brushes are on the other side of motor. But there are no electrical contacts on that side (as Marty's pics show). I just ordered a brush kit for $29. It comes with 2 brushes and a plate. But I'll have to wait a year or 2 as this is a pretty new motor. Again, thanks

 

[RTLSHIP]

Yesterday my BD36 motor started to sputter-- a tell tale sign of brush problem. So I opened up hub as per above mentioned instructions. The hub has only 2,300 miles, so I was suspicious. Positive brush had 1/2" left and the neg brush had 1/3" left but the spring was jammed such that there was contact problem with commutator. Uneven brush wear.
I went ahead and replaced old brushes with a complete new brush kit f/ Java Cycles.
Next, I put some multi purpose caulking between the hub creases and closed hub.
Bike runs fine. Timing is fine as I did not spin inner windings around with brush plate off.
I'm going to keep the old brush plate and fit it with new brushes sooner or later.
The hardest part was making the hub crease wider w/ a razor. Vacumming or air blowing
is also a good idea as there is alot of carbon dust buildup.

 

[D-Man]

Mmmm. You'd think you would get more miles out of brushes. Did you buy the WE hub new?

 

[RTLSHIP]

I bought the bike & kit used. Computer said 980 miles when I got it last July. It reads approx 2.300 this July.
This kit could have been on another bike. But brush wear appears consistent with 2,300 miles. Mr. Dogman has posted that brushes should last about 5,000 miles.
These particular brushes still have about another 2,000 miles or so. I installed new brushes so I don't have to hassle with opening hub again for a long time.
The problem was that one of the brush-springs was bent out of shape causing a contact problem w/ commutator. 1 brush was half an inch, the other one-third of an inch. Brushes should last up until the last millimeter.
I reset computer to zero miles for new brushes.