Will Hi-powered ebikes ever go mainstream in USA?

[EdwardNY]

When I say hi-powered, I mean ones that can do 28MPH+, or at least have a 1000watt setup.

I always wonder about this. Right now ebikes are a very very small niche hobby. In NYC where I live, I have yet to see any hi-powered ebikes. Some other guy in NYC said that there are probably only a few full suspension mountain bike ebikes in the entire NYC. The only ebikes I see are delivery bikes and usually driven by Indian delivery drivers.

Personally, I hope that ebikes do not go mainstream. If they do they will probably put laws on them and restrict them. Right now I have not met anybody who has even heard about them. This allows me to cheat in a way, by basically having a motorcyle that I can drive almost anywhere. I also enjoy all the attention the ebike gets, especially when blowing by other bikers.


I think that ebikes will not go mainstream, at least not anytime soon. My reasoning is that it is somewhat difficult to put them together, especially the more hi-powered ones. You really just can not jump into this hobby easily without having decent technical skils. I bet some of you may say it is really easy. Well, it does seem easy now that we know how to build them, understand how to work with batteries etc., Know what to buy. But I would think that for most people this would be a very very difficult task. I know from starting this hobby I put in hundreds of hours of research just to finally be able to buy what I needed. I can not see any of my friends even thinking about attempting a project like this. The other fact is my friends have no interest in even using an ebike, and I would help them build one.

I also think it could be illegal to sell ebikes that go faster than a certain MPH in USA? This I am not sure about but I heard it was illegal to build one that can go over like 20MPH. However, hi-powered cycles has no problems selling them that can do 50MPH. With this being the case I do not see any big bike manufactuer mass producing and selling hi-powered bikes.

So I was wondering your take on it. Will we see hi-powered ebikes ever become popular in the USA?

 

[slacker]

in my opinion no unless the price comes down,just my 2 cents worth.

 

[ddk]

they would not be considered "bicycles" in most, if not all states and would be *very* illegal to run on the street.
Fine for private property use but not public property use.
the end

 

[dogman dan]

Not illegal to sell, just illegal to ride on the street in many states.

It might be illegal to sell them and call it a "bike" though. So they'd have to be called mopeds perhaps, or even mototcycles if they have no pedals.

I think that for EV's to really catch on, we need two or three things. One is cheaper batteries of course, but I'm thinking more about the laws in this case.

Street legal ebikes are pretty limited in power and speed, which makes em as dangerous to ride as a regular bike on busy streets with fast speed limits. Full blown legal ev's such as a nissan leaf are still pretty pricy. But a NEV is, like the bike, a bit too limited to slow speeds.

I'd like to see a "fast moped" category that is allowed 40 mph max, but can be ridden on a bike trail or path provided you keep it below 20 mph. Have a switch that limits speed to 20 for bike trail use perhaps. You'd need a drivers licence, but not a vin number or licence plate. Similarly a faster NEV category, allowed 40 mph, with simple safety stuff similar to an early 70's car. Allowed on roads to 45 mph. Then it could be light and cheaper than a car designed for the freeway. Then, lower some 55 mph road speed limits to 45.

Lastly, the attitude is unlikely to change. The popular vehicle here in the west seems to be a 1 ton 4 door pickup. The minivan is dead.

 

[SamTexas]

No idea whether they will become popular or not. I certainly don't want them to. I'm a firm believer that the USA 750W/20mph for ebikes is more than generous. I don't wish for anything higher. Ebikes interest me mainly because they are considered a bicycle thus can go wherever a bicycle is allowed to. A higher speed limit can not preserve that privilege and maintain the safety for others at the same time.

Motorcycles (ICE or electric) are readily available for higher speed 2 wheel transportation. The addition of fake pedals to such vehicles is just silly.

 

[etriker]

I ride my electric bikes because it is so fun to go for an electric bicycle ride.

Sometimes when the cars are all backed up I get on the sidewalk and pedal and pass them by.

I like a nice lightweight ebike that is easy to pedal without using the electric if needed.

Hi-powered ebikes feel heavy to me.

If I want a fast and heavy bike then a Honda Gold Wing will do.

Can't pedal it on the sidewalk and pass cars though.

 

[spinningmagnets]

There's some exciting stuff happening in the OFF-ROAD E-bike world in Germany and Australia. It would appear there are enough people there who want to pay more for fun toys that, hi-powered E-bikes will continue to occasionally be in the news. Its sad that in both of those places there are silly power and speed restrictions.

When it comes to my car, I can be cited for my bad behavior, but concerning power...I have a vehicle with a 460-V8 (pistons the size of trash cans), and even my little 4-cylinder can get to 100-MPH (with a tail-wind). I obey the speed limit and drive safely or I get a ticket.

I think the power limit is silly (several threads have already beaten that particular dead horse). And if I may be so bold as to say...for the general public, I believe that the 20-MPH (32-k/h), is actually reasonable (please don't throw any rocks, I am old and feeble). If an E-biker causes a car wreck, he can walk away and there is no serial number or license plate that can trace it back to the rider.

I do not find it oppressive to require a 30-MPH E-bike to have a brake light, headlight, turn signals, two working brakes...a $20 annual registration should take care of the administrative costs. I am happy that these things are not required now, but who's insurance covers a death when E-bike and car interact?

If I was selling E-bikes to the public here in the USA, I can envision something similar to the GNG at 36V X 21A = 750W...legal power and sold with a small chainring that tops out at 20-MPH. If the customer switches to 48V and a larger chainring...its not my fault. And I would be fully prepared to file for bankruptcy at the first moment that someone crashed due to a loose nut behind the handlebars, and decided it was an opportunity to sue me, because...why not? (should I form this hypothetical business as an encumbered Nevada LLC?)

 

[electr0n]

Ebikes are a growing niche primarily among hobbyists in North America at least. I can't see them catching on in any mainstream kind of way in the next couple of years in this part of the world. That suits me just fine since I like being under the radar anyway. I don't want any more restrictions or regulation that would come with increased popularity. I've had only a handful of people ask about my bike in the past couple years I've been riding it.

I think most people here would prefer riding in their cars to go places, which limits the bicycle to something recreational except for a handful of people and most of them are riding for exercise. I was motivated to get an electric bike to have frugal, simple transportation and found it to be lots of fun. I would think ebikes could appeal to people that want to save money on transportation, want to be "green" or people that ride buses and also people with some form of physical impairment which prevents them from riding a non electric bike.

 

[Ykick]

Mainstream, no. Niche hobby, sure....

More bikes, scooters or motos reduce cars/trucks and that's better for those of us who ride. Trouble is, majority of "sheeple" have no business riding anything in traffic or on paths and attempting to do so will only result in their injury or demise.

But consider this - motos/scooter inherently reduce potential damage/injury to other vehicles and persons while also force feeding defensive traffic tactics. Logically, moto/scooter licenses should be required long before granting some dumbass a permit/license to operate 1-2 ton hurtling cars/trucks which can more readily wipe out another car with souls aboard.

Of course, that will never, ever happen but we can always dream that someday governments will actually use common sense approach to regulations. Yeah, right....

 

[wesnewell]

When the amount reaches the point where 25% of your salary is spent to maintain the vehicle you ride back an forth to work and people start to realize they don't need to spend more than 1% for transportation to and from work, maybe then it will happen, but I doubt it. Some people are already spending 25% of their salaries on their vehicles. What a waste.

 

[John in CR]

Edward,

you've gotta get out of the city more. NYC is not the center of the universe.

It depends what you call mainstream, but yes something that falls between motorcycles and ebikes will outsell gas powered two wheelers as batteries advance more. That's because they ride so much better than a moto. For road use they'll obviously end up some kind of registered vehicle, but the biggest hangup will be how to make them strong enough to get thru the lawyers but still handle more like a bicycle than a sluggish by comparison moto.

In the meantime ebikes will grow, along with the market for aftermarket performance enhancements, and then as mentioned above there's the offroad type that are already a growing market. Double or triple battery capacity in the same size and weight and the niche will turn into an explosion.

John

 

[hjns]

Agree with John here. E-bikes will grow, and +1kW peak performance bikes will come as well. Here in Switzerland we have a law for unlicenced <500W bikes, and licenced 0.5-1kW bikes, all continuous power. Therefore, peak power can be much higher, because unregulated by law, which makes the +1kW accessible already a fact for some <0.5kW mainstream bikes.

In other words, in Switzerland, these so-called "high-power" bikes are already becoming mainstream. I don't know how things will develop in countries that are lagging behind.....

 

[MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER]

Well I am feeling special over here!

I am the only one who riding a high power E bike (made by meself).

When riding people always looking like the have never seen a bike before...
So need need for more high power bikes, so the police don't have to watch out for E bikers

 

[Sunder]

It all comes down to definition. What is an eBike? What is mainstream?

If you're asking if 26+mph bikes will be legal on bike paths, not a chance.

If you're asking if electric scooters/motorcycles will take a significant share of normal scooter/motorcycle sales, the same way a Leaf or an iMiev, then yes, I think it will start in about 3-5 years and take another 3-5 years to get to where those cars are now. and maybe another 3-5 years on top of that before they have a significant (20%+) market share.

If you're asking if a significant portion of families will have at least one electric two wheeler, I don't think so until commuting on gas takes up too high a proportion of income, as someone else mentioned.

 

[MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER]

Well here the gas price is 2,30 USD a litre.
So I am glad I switched from gas car > gas scooter > E bike

I have still those gas shit machines, but don't them (only when very high urgent).

 

[geeeyejo1]

Since hi-powered Ebikes are basically illegal in the US; it is not likely that manufacturers will build anything in quantity that exceeds the 750W 20mph limit - certainly not at an affordable price for the masses. As mentioned by the OP - most folks do not have the mechanical ability to install a kit, fabricate a wiring harness for their imported battery, manage their battery to extend life, etc, etc. Even a kit coupled with a decent LIFEPO4 battery and mountain bike that most of us consider a bargain at $1000+ is considered expensive for the average citizen. I am happy to be part of the lucky minority as if there were many zipping around indiscreetly at 30mph plus, breaking traffic laws, etc - law enforcement would certainly start cracking down...

 

[RLD70]

I think its possible for them to go mainstream but until the battery makers create batteries that are capable of going 100+ miles per charge at atleast 50 mph and are reasonably priced and lightweight they wont. I really hope not because of all the red tape thatll be involved but when gas prices hit $5+ a gallon then we Might see a migration towards electric vehicles.

 

[skyungjae]

I don't think they would simply because of the "American" mentality that bigger is better and it always has been. I only say this because US consumers are very numbers driven. I'm not saying that people from other countries aren't; however during my e-bike journey, the question I was asked the most was... why don't you just get a motorcycle if you're going to spend that much money. There are plenty of 2nd hand 250cc motorcycles that can be had between $1000-4000 used to new in running condition. Some of them get upwards to 70mpg and can reach safe highway speeds.

Of course, from our perspective, e-bikes and motorcycles are clearly not the same thing. The only problem is, to the uninformed, motor (electric or not) + bicycle = motorized bike = motorcycle. It becomes understandable when someone would rather choose a motorcycle over a bike when something like a Prodeco Outlaw is $2200 which, to some, may be considered a high power and affordable e-bike. Purpose of use can be completely different and there are pros and cons to either we all already know so I'm not going to bother listing any.

Back to the American vehicle consumer mentality, I have suggested to my friends who ride/used to ride/have ridden motorcycles to check out Zero Motorcycles. The response is similar to e-bikes. Why would I spend that much money when I can spend half as much, get great mpg, not worry about charging, and go just as fast. The other response is, with that amount of money, I can pick up a _______, and go almost twice as fast.

The value of going green and/or being good to your body simply is not at the top of the list. There was a time when people spent extra money on hybrid cars simply to help the environment. Now-a-days, that seems more like a bi-product to better mpg and saving money in the long run.

I guess the point of this response is... e-bikes in general would have to go mainstream in the US prior to hi-powered e-bikes. There are always going to be those people who want to go faster and willing to bend or break the law to do it. Plenty of car and motorcycle drivers/riders put their offroad/track use only stuff on their street vehicles, replace emissions control devices to make more power, etc etc... I imagine it would be the same for e-bikes if they ever became mainstream.

 

[EdwardNY]

I guess it depends on where you live in the USA. If you're in the country an e-bike may not be practicle when you could get a dirt bike.

However, in a city, a dirtbike is useless. With an e-bike you can drive in all the bike lanes, or basically anyplace where bikes and pedestrians are allowed. I can even bring my ebike on the staten island ferry to get into Manhattan, you can not do this with any gas powered vechicles.

But I still get the same crap from people here in NYC. My nephew always says my e-bike is stupid and I should get a real motorcycle and he talks about what I can get for $1000 or what I paid for my e-bike. I try to tell him what use will it be when I can only drive it on the street, can't bring it on the ferry, etc.

 

[Trackman417]

I guess it depends on where you live in the USA. If you're in the country an e-bike may not be practicle when you could get a dirt bike.

However, in a city, a dirtbike is useless. With an e-bike you can drive in all the bike lanes, or basically anyplace where bikes and pedestrians are allowed. I can even bring my ebike on the staten island ferry to get into Manhattan, you can not do this with any gas powered vechicles.

But I still get the same crap from people here in NYC. My nephew always says my e-bike is stupid and I should get a real motorcycle and he talks about what I can get for $1000 or what I paid for my e-bike. I try to tell him what use will it be when I can only drive it on the street, can't bring it on the ferry, etc.

Tell your nephew about how useful a motorcycle will be without gasoline to power it :wink:

I personally dont believe ebikes will be catching on here in the US for sometime. The oil companies are pulling there strings in the government. One classic example is fords 60mpg diesel engine that they manufacture here in the US, but are not allowed to sell here. Now who in their right minds would say Ford could not sell a 60mph diesel engine?

 

[skyungjae]

I guess it depends on where you live in the USA. If you're in the country an e-bike may not be practicle when you could get a dirt bike.

However, in a city, a dirtbike is useless. With an e-bike you can drive in all the bike lanes, or basically anyplace where bikes and pedestrians are allowed. I can even bring my ebike on the staten island ferry to get into Manhattan, you can not do this with any gas powered vechicles.

But I still get the same crap from people here in NYC. My nephew always says my e-bike is stupid and I should get a real motorcycle and he talks about what I can get for $1000 or what I paid for my e-bike. I try to tell him what use will it be when I can only drive it on the street, can't bring it on the ferry, etc.

That's very interesting. When I'd hiked or regular biked the trails around here, I always thought how awesome it would be to tear it up with a dirt bike or even a pit bike. Of course that's not legal, but building my Stink-E made those thoughts somewhat of a reality.

 

[neptronix]

I hope they never go mainstream. Would be hard for them to do though since they are not legal

Enjoy the power you have while you still can. The law will continue to constrict on our favorite mode of transport and shaped into someone else's ideals. I'm in this real heavy because i know when it gets reall popular here in the USA, we're screwed.

 

[skyungjae]

I hope they never go mainstream. Would be hard for them to do though since they are not legal

Enjoy the power you have while you still can. The law will continue to constrict on our favorite mode of transport and shaped into someone else's ideals. I'm in this real heavy because i know when it gets reall popular here in the USA, we're screwed.

Well, I do believe mine falls under the federal definition of a legal e-bike... sorta. :wink:

 

[Farfle]

Mines legal, but im payin the man....

 

[EdwardNY]

I hope they never go mainstream. Would be hard for them to do though since they are not legal

Enjoy the power you have while you still can. The law will continue to constrict on our favorite mode of transport and shaped into someone else's ideals. I'm in this real heavy because i know when it gets reall popular here in the USA, we're screwed.

Exactly what will probably happen, they will push more and more laws. I guess they really have to because the whole electric bike thing is new and unregulated.

Lucky we have at least another 5 years, even with laws, before most cops are aware that ebikes even exist. They are just simply so rare that anybody I know has ever seen one. Other than delivery ebikes, these are the ones you buy completed form china, I have yet to see any custom ebikes.

I think the problem may come from the delivery guys using them in the cities.

http://www.electricbike.com/ebike-illegal/

If this article is true, then ebikes are already banned in NY. Mostly because of delivery ebikes in NYC. Not sure if cops would single out my mountain bike ebike because I doubt they would even realize I was driving one and probably would not care because they are so rare and the crackdown is on the drivers using them to make deliveries. Mostly delivery guys are not bothered, and if there was a crackdown it would be for delivery drivers in the city.

Well, if there is every a crackdown we still have the option to just ride away from the cops. This could easily be done in a big city as there is no way a cop will chsae you. I heard that cops are really not allowed to do high speed pursuits here in NYC.