Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

[Hillhater]

Some authorities are making new installations commercially unviable, and together with the windback of subsidies,.the wind power industry is in a stagnant ( declining ) period.

Translation from the Hillhater-speak "declining" to reality -

The wind industry in Germany "only" added 1GW in 2019 and will "only" add 1.5GW in 2020.

And returning to the real world..

Germany set to retire 20 GW of wind power by 2023 - Renewable Energy Federation head...
Energie & Management
Due to the end of their 20-year life span of guaranteed support payments, about 20 gigawatt (GW) of wind power capacity in Germany will be retired by 2023 as their operation is no longer profitable, Simone Peter, head of Germany’s Renewable Energy Federation (BEE), says in an interview with Energie & Management magazine. “This will have substantial consequences,” Peter says, .......

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/20-gw-wind-power-gone-2023-bee-german-engineers-dissect-tesla/germany-set-retire-20-gw-wind-power-2023-renewable-energy-federation-head
...i think that represents a “decline” in Germany’s wind power over the next few years ?

 

[markz]

Wind is costly, those turbines dont last long.

 

[Hillhater]

Whilst wind turbines can, and do, operate for 20+ years, that is not the whole story, and many operators are finding the reality of economic operation is very different.....

The analysis of almost 3,000 onshore wind turbines — the biggest study of its kind —warns that they will continue to generate electricity effectively for just 12 to 15 years.

The wind energy industry and the Government base all their calculations on turbines enjoying a lifespan of 20 to 25 years.

The study estimates that routine wear and tear will more than double the cost of electricity being produced by wind farms in the next decade.

Older turbines will need to be replaced more quickly than the industry estimates while many more will need to be built onshore if the Government is to meet renewable energy targets by 2020.

The extra cost is likely to be passed on to households, which already pay about £1 billion a year in a consumer subsidy that is added to electricity bills.

The report concludes that a wind turbine will typically generate more than twice as much electricity in its first year than when it is 15 years old.

The report’s author, Prof Gordon Hughes, an economist at Edinburgh University and a former energy adviser to the World Bank, discovered that the “load factor” — the efficiency rating of a turbine based on the percentage of electricity it actually produces compared with its theoretical maximum — is reduced from 24 per cent in the first 12 months of operation to just 11 per cent after 15 years.

 

[ZeroEm]

by Hillhater » Oct 18 2020 12:22am

Whilst wind turbines can, and do, operate for 20+ years, that is not the whole story, and many operators are finding the reality of economic operation is very different.....

Reminds me of PC's in years past. We replaced them before the end of life. Yes, they slowed down or look inferior to newer models.
I wonder is they want the best place for the new turbines and not just start a new field and let the old one creep along.

 

[markz]

Consumer products like computers are a different story, times sure have changed in the last years compared to a decade ago. I am on a 10+ year old computer, it works just fine for my needs. No graphic intensive games here.

 

[wineboyrider]

Consumer products like computers are a different story, times sure have changed in the last years compared to a decade ago. I am on a 10+ year old computer, it works just fine for my needs. No graphic intensive games here.

Same here using an old dell desktop and thinkpad with Linux

 

[Hillhater]

I wonder is they want the best place for the new turbines and not just start a new field and let the old one creep along.

Existing wind farms are located at the best locations availlable , new wind farms are having to find sub-optimum sites.
The “best” location for wind turbines is either very high ..( Jet stream ?).. or offshore in those regeons where strong winds are most frequent....Southern Ocean ? , Cape Horn , etc
But either way, they will still have a restricted working life due to the numerous moving parts and the extreme loading on components such as bearings, gearing, etc

 

[Dauntless]

[youtube]L9x-Cdx7P-U[/youtube]

 

[sendler2112]

Sound familiar?
Counter Punch: "Once its power was secure, however, fascism revealed its authoritarian face. It unflinchingly set about crushing organized labor, denying independent news publications, doubting validity of elections, scapegoating and eliminating racialized underclasses, privatizing public assets and schools, and investing heavily in a war economy beneficial to its industrial supporters. In establishing the direct dictatorship of big capital (through massive tax give backs and deregulation), it even destroyed some of the more plebeian and populist elements in its own ranks under the juggernaut of repressive class warfare."
.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/10/14/liberalism-and-fascism-partners-in-crime/

 

[ZeroEm]

Trump is fighting climate change, it's supposed to be getting cooler. He is making sure it's heating up.

 

[Cephalotus]

First step for a green steel project at Salzgitter AG.

Salzgitter AG emittes around 8 mio t CO2 anually, this is around 1% of Germany's total anual CO2 emissions.

https://www.green-industrial-hydrogen.com/#

 

[markz]

Trump is fighting climate change, it's supposed to be getting cooler. He is making sure it's heating up.

Yeah well all the trillions spent on healthy emissions from industry and business stiffled and yet China, India, Russia, Pakistan, all of Africa, all the "stan" countries, Indonesia and area keep dumping their pollutants into the air. Force them to clean their act up and we first world nations can play along.

 

[JackFlorey]

Yeah well all the trillions spent on healthy emissions from industry

I LOVE this spin! "At Bethlehem Coal, we now have only healthy emissions! Our employees* breathe nothing but coal power plant exhaust day and night and they live for MONTHS. Join us in the new health revolution!"

(* - executives do not breathe exhaust)

 

[Hillhater]

You have to recognise the difference between “Emissions” and “Pollution”..
Not all emissions are pollutants, ..
Nobody wants pollution but..
...some emissions are healthy (Oxygen from plant Photosynthisis),
..and some are essential for life, (CO2 !). :wink:

 

[Balmorhea]

You have to recognise the difference between “Emissions” and “Pollution”..
Not all emissions are pollutants, ..
Nobody wants pollution but..
...some emissions are healthy (Oxygen from plant Photosynthisis),
..and some are essential for life, (CO2 !). :wink:

Okay, done with you. Into the septic tank with Dauncy et al.

 

[Dauntless]

Okay, done with you. Into the septic tank with Dauncy et al.

Inviting me to your 'Man Cave,' eh? How's the exhaust in there?

 

[Hillhater]

You have to recognise the difference between “Emissions” and “Pollution”..
Not all emissions are pollutants, ..
Nobody wants pollution but..
...some emissions are healthy (Oxygen from plant Photosynthisis),
..and some are essential for life, (CO2 !). :wink:

Okay, done with you. Into the septic tank with Dauncy et al.

Hmm ?... having problems facing reality , are you ?

 

[ZeroEm]

We have a Coal Plant 5-10 miles south of our house and we normally have an on flow of moisture from the Gulf. A cleaning of my solar panels always revels a coat of black residue. The locals in this area really complaining about it.

some emissions are healthy

Some are not!

 

[JackFlorey]

You have to recognise the difference between “Emissions” and “Pollution”

Spoken like a true politician!

All those "healthy emissions" from coal fired power plants kill 13,000 people in the US every year. But I bet you don't want to be one of them.

 

[Dauntless]

But I bet you don't want to be one of them.

I'm sure he supports you.

 

[Hillhater]

All those "healthy emissions" from coal fired power plants kill 13,000 people in the US every year.

But do you know the actual emissions that cause those deaths ? (Hint:.. it is not CO2 !)
But yes it would be nice if some of the. “Greenies” did not prevent the construction of modern “clean” coal fired plants,.to replace the old plants and eliminate those pollutants.
.....or better still some Nuclear plants, :wink:

 

[JackFlorey]

But do you know the actual emissions that cause those deaths ? (Hint:.. it is not CO2 !)

Sure, particulates, SOx and NOx.

But yes it would be nice if some of the. “Greenies” did not prevent the construction of modern “clean” coal fired plants,.to replace the old plants and eliminate those pollutants.

They don't eliminate those pollutants. They just put them somewhere else. Like:
=======================
The Kingston Fossil Plant coal fly ash slurry spill was an environmental and industrial disaster that occurred on Monday December 22, 2008, when a dike ruptured at a coal ash pond at the Tennessee Valley Authority's Kingston Fossil Plant in Roane County, Tennessee, releasing 1.1 billion US gallons (4.2 million cubic metres) of coal fly ash slurry. The coal-fired power plant, located across the Clinch River from the city of Kingston, used a series of ponds to store and dewater the fly ash, a byproduct of coal combustion. The spill released a slurry of fly ash and water, which traveled across the Emory River and its Swan Pond embayment, onto the opposite shore, covering up to 300 acres (1.2 km2) of the surrounding land. The spill damaged multiple homes and flowed into nearby waterways including the Emory River and Clinch River, both tributaries of the Tennessee River. It was the largest industrial spill in United States history.

The initial spill, which resulted in millions of dollars worth of property damages and rendered many properties uninhabitable, cost TVA more than $1 billion to cleanup, and was declared complete in 2015. TVA was found liable for the spill in August 2012 by the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Tennessee. The initial spill resulted in no injuries or deaths, but several of the employees of an engineering firm hired by TVA to clean up the spill developed illnesses, including brain cancer, lung cancer, and leukemia, as a result of exposure to the toxic coal ash, and by the ten year anniversary of the spill, more than 30 had died. In November 2018, a federal jury ruled that the contractor did not properly inform the workers about the dangers of exposure to coal ash and had failed to provide them with necessary personal protective equipment.
=========================

Some people don't want to lose their homes and watch their kids develop brain cancer, lung cancer, and leukemia as a result of your "healthy emissions!"

 

[ZeroEm]

They have built a clean coal plant in the southern US, don't remember the State now. You do not hear much from it. They store what they capture back in the ground but the the cost per Kilowatt was like $2.00 compared to $0.09. I could try to find it but not worth my time. You can not afford clean coal so let it go.

 

[Hillhater]

But do you know the actual emissions that cause those deaths ? (Hint:.. it is not CO2 !)

Sure, particulates, SOx and NOx.

As i said,...not a CO2 molecule involved !
And. as for those pollutants, ( they are not “healthy emissions ?) ..there are proven ways of removing and safely disposing of them,.
The fact that some plants do not comply is a failure of regulation, monitoring, inspection and enforcement, by authorities responsible to ensure public safety.

 

[Hillhater]

They have built a clean coal plant in the southern US, don't remember the State now. You do not hear much from it. They store what they capture back in the ground but the the cost per Kilowatt was like $2.00 compared to $0.09. I could try to find it but not worth my time. You can not afford clean coal so let it go.

“$2.00 /kWh”
Bull %h1t !

... Dont remember the state....could try to find it but not worth my time...

There are any number of reference sources that will state the cost of power from a Low Emissions coal plant with CCS, is under $200//MWh ($0.20 /kWh) !
AND half that cost is the “CCS” process. To remove the “Healthy Emissions of CO2” ......which is just a sap to the. Dumb Greenies..

Maybe this is the one you were thinking of ?...... note:..$0.06 /kWh :wink:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/05/goodbye-smokestacks-startup-invents-zero-emission-fossil-fuel-power