Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

[neptronix]

The house would be wired as normal but there would be some sort of way to switch between internal power ( my panels and battery bank ) or external for most if not all of the 110v circuits.

I'm not a household wiring expert but i figure this is not rocket science to implement.

 

[Ianhill]

I seen big clive talk about kinetic light switches that run a rf signal zero wires all in the pendant etc.

If this design is perfected id really like to see it take over the amount of times ive been asked to move a light switch with an interior redesign and depending on location it can be a right pain and the £300 price was laughed out but when a cowboy makes a mess of floorboards and plastered walls paint finish etc im sure they will be happy with the slap and dash result.

This kinetic switch saves all that headache just stick it to the wall, fit the reviever in the light remove old switch lines and done can move the switch any where within reason and use it in a traditional way no need for modern app crap picking your phone up to control your life.

Need to find one thats not an ebay special and id consider installing them to fix this type of headache once and for all no more pissing about chasing walls dust everywhere to get a flush finish just chase a new box into the wall fill the old one and jobs a gooden if you need it flush but some are already in patress boxes then its straight swap i imagine.

 

[Hillhater]

Do you have the legal ability in Australia to disconnect yourself from the grid and provide your own power entirely?
If so i imagine it's quite easy to get yourself personally from under the thumb of those who like to manipulate the market.

Thousands of Australians are “Cut Off” forceably from the grid every year due to their inability to pay the ever increasing power bills.
Many others in country areas, have no access to the main grid supply due to the limited coverage of the network
They have to rely on private solar, Wind, and Diesel generators for power.
I know of several folk in these “off grid” situations, but none of them would give up their diesel generators..Wind and Solar are just not reliable, and sufficient batteries are simply more expensive than a good generator.
Anyone with access to a grid supply, but chooses to go fully off grid, is just virtue signaling .

 

[Hillhater]

.

A majority of this thread is not worth retaining and would be far too time consuming to clean up.
It is getting dumpstered in a few days, and we will allow any remaining discussion to be concluded.

Even for someone with incredible technical and memory skills, ..that is a BIG call !
This is one of the longest running,... (popular ?)... threads at 260+ pages with much variety of technical data and reference links.
Normal practice might be to “Lock” such a thread ,
...but obviously you have ulterior motives, and intend to delete all content ?

 

[nicobie]

Take it easy!

We are just trying to temper the emotional crap. There will always be room for the technical stuff. That is why this joint is here.

Aren't you sick of all the flaming bullshit? It was stinking the whole place up.

 

[JackFlorey]

You mean you didnt hear him say it ?

What you claimed he said: "eliminate ALL CO2 in the atmosphere"

What he actually said: "but even if we get to net zero, we still have to get carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere" which is both accurate and completely different from what you claimed.

You figured you could just post the video and no one would check, eh? I guess that works with the more ignorant folks out there.

 

[JackFlorey]

The house would be wired as normal but there would be some sort of way to switch between internal power ( my panels and battery bank ) or external for most if not all of the 110v circuits.

There is a sort of system referred to as "zero export" that does something very similar. It's an inverter that will add only as much power back to the grid as you are using; this is generally very easy to get approved and can be done in areas that do not allow backfeeding. There are places in the US like Hawaii where there is so much solar on some branch circuits that the circuits cannot handle any additional generation. For places like that, zero export is the only option.

The way it works is that there is a grid tie inverter with a limiter that measures incoming current. It will attempt to reduce the total power drawn from the grid to something like 5 watts; if it ever goes below that, it backs off on its current so that it keeps it at or above 5 watts draw.

So from the utility's perspective, you are a regular customer whose load goes down to just 5 watts for most of the day.

Quick writeup:
https://sunelec.com/zero-export-grid-tie/

Example of grid tie inverter with limiter: (NOT UL approved but works from experience)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GC53QBD/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?_encoding=UTF8&aaxitk=ad57298c31408ac83e9f047e2b08a2b6&hsa_cr_id=3946908050401&pd_rd_plhdr=t&pd_rd_r=47d9f648-4131-45d1-adb3-00232dc93c19&pd_rd_w=nS4TT&pd_rd_wg=AWYOr&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_mcd_asin_0_img

 

[TheBeastie]

Do you have the legal ability in Australia to disconnect yourself from the grid and provide your own power entirely?
If so i imagine it's quite easy to get yourself personally from under the thumb of those who like to manipulate the market.

I know of several folk in these “off grid” situations, but none of them would give up their diesel generators..Wind and Solar are just not reliable, and sufficient batteries are simply more expensive than a good generator.
Anyone with access to a grid supply, but chooses to go fully off grid, is just virtue signaling .

I don't think it's about virtue-signalling, if you watch USA YouTubers like Tim Pool etc they all seem to say/recommend "get out of the cities, move to a large block of land try and live off your own sustainability, it's just getting crazy out there..."
They say this because there is increasing systemic failure by governments in keeping police(because they aren't allowed to do their job properly) etc and another craziness.
The reason why property prices have gone up on country areas in the USA etc is that everyone is moving out of the cities.
More Than Two HUNDRED Cops Have QUIT In Seattle, Current Policing Is IMPLODING
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o29f4ft_gV8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLiFpa_QSSg
^Typical bit of the daily 2 hour chit-chat shows on TimPool IRL channel.

Also, most people hate electricity utilities like they hate mobile phone companies, everyone in Australia hates Telstra which is like AT&T in the USA, and a lot of people move to the smaller carriers even if they don't get as good coverage on principle. My dad is like that, he is in an outer location and anything but Telstra doesn't work for mobile data inside the house (but he can still get voice calls), he has moved to ALDI mobile anyway and just has a good wifi setup to make sure the phone is always getting data when inside the house.

Also Neptronix is also more hands-on-ish, he is likely to build his own DIY Tesla powerwall out of discarded laptop cells etc.

 

[neptronix]

More Than Two HUNDRED Cops Have QUIT In Seattle, Current Policing Is IMPLODING
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o29f4ft_gV8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLiFpa_QSSg
^Typical bit of the daily 2 hour chit-chat shows on TimPool IRL channel.

Hey, what does this have to do with the topic at hand and why are you injecting an unrelated political topic in it?

 

[Hillhater]

I don't think it's about virtue-signalling, if you watch USA YouTubers like Tim Pool etc they all seem to say/recommend "get out of the cities, move to a large block of land try and live off your own sustainability,

The “Virtue Signalling” was referring to the decision to disconnect from the grid if it is available as an option.
..The $1 /day supply charge is trivial compared to the hassle and inconvenience of unpredictable weather dependent power generation....It is cheap “Back up”
I made the move from a city lifestyle ( i have lived Sub-Urban, Urban, and CBD )but relocated a few years ago $ hours out of Sydney and 2 hours from the nearest “City”, onto a acreage block, with Vegie plots , chooks, Solar, Bore water, creek, etc etc.
However, not only have i retained a Grid connection, (and City water too) , but i have also invested in a Generator for those evenings when the Grid fails after a storm etc...... That is the reality of “country” life.
Anybody living independently or “self sustainably” are kidding themselves, there is always something that is impossible or impractical to self produce, (clothes, tools, construction materials etc etc ).... but if someone wants to survive like a caveman, thats fine,.. but remember why societies and communities have developed and flourished...”Mutual advantages”

I do not doubt the Skills of Neptronix, but even he may be a little daunted by the prospect of assembling a back up power bank of sufficient capacity to cover any potential shortages of “off Grid” power generation. !

 

[neptronix]

I do not doubt the Skills of Neptronix, but even he may be a little daunted by the prospect of assembling a back up power bank of sufficient capacity to cover any potential shortages of “off Grid” power generation. !

You are right, it's something i'd rather wait on to do.. when solid state cells or some other evolution comes about. If i had to do it today, i may use a nissan leaf battery bank or something else that's relatively easy to construct.

In my case, disconnecting partially or fully from the grid is not virtue signaling but becoming independent of a company i don't want to buy products from. I'm not looking for an attaboy for environmental cred.

 

[Hillhater]

In my case, disconnecting partially or fully from the grid is not virtue signaling but becoming independent of a company i don't want to buy products from. I'm not looking for an attaboy for environmental cred.

Maybe not any “Environmental” virtue, but still a “social signal” of protest against a companies business ethics etc.
If there were more acceptable ,ethical, suppliers, would you be happy with grid connection ?

 

[nicobie]

While I agree that the environment is very important and I don't believe in or allow shitting in my backyard, I don't think I'd own a decent solar system (w/grid tie) and a electric car if they hadn't penciled out $ wise.

It ended up being a wise investment.

 

[Hillhater]

US Emissions reductions targets,...can they be achieved ?
The recent “Leaders” virtual conference resulted in various plans and “targets” being proposed, notably for the US.
A key one is the target of achieving “Zero CO2 emissions” from the US Electricity Grid generators by 2035.
Of the 1120 GW of current installed generating capacity in the continental USA, 25% is already classed as “Zero CO2” ..(Wind, Solar, Hydro, Biomass, Geothermal etc), and another 9% is Nuclear, which technically is also “Zero CO2”.
That leaves 66.0% (740.0 GW) of Fossil fueled generators ( IE, Gas, Coal Diesel etc) to be replaced with “Zero Co2” generation by 2035....14 years away !
That 740 GW of fossil generation produces 2600 TWh per year of power, which would have to be replaced by “Zero” sources.
The options are limited currently..
....Wind is the current favorite with 117GW installed, producing 337 TWh per year(average)
So , for Wind to replace 2600TWh, we would need an extra 899GW to be operational,..or 64 GW per year installation rate (approx 10 times the current instaltion rate !)
....and with a current cost of $1.3bn per GW, ( onshore ) that would be $84 bn per year....$1173 bn total .
.. Note, if Offshore wind was chosen, the costs would be 2-4 time greater !
Even a “light 15% blend” of Offshore wind, would put that total over $2000 bn !

The other practical “Zero CO2” option is Nuclear, in some form or other...
The current 100 GW of operating Nuclear generates 800Twh per year, so 325 GW of new nuclear plants would be needed.
At a cost estimate of $5 bn per GW, it would imply a total cost of $1625 bn. .. or $116 bn per year.

With this amount of money involved, there is plenty of scope for some serious investment in developing CCS technologies as was also mentioned in the Conference as being required, rather than a complete rebuild of the Generation infrastructure.

Either way the sums are scary and even if financially viable , the rate of rebuild seems impractical, so if anyone can see a realistic option to achieve these goals, then chip in.!

 

[neptronix]

Maybe not any “Environmental” virtue, but still a “social signal” of protest against a companies business ethics etc.
If there were more acceptable ,ethical, suppliers, would you be happy with grid connection ?

Well.. I live in a state where the local power monopoly has corrupted politics to an extreme so that they can avoid being obsoleted by making government's terms worse and worse for solar panel owners. So the money i hand this company is used against mine and other's environmental and economical interests.

Why plead with them ( which hasn't been effective for decades here ) when you can vote with your dollars instead?

 

[Ianhill]

People dont like change unless it benifits them.

Benifits are not as simple as thousands of years ago is my water source closer do i have enough food.

Its more of a is my millions still stacking ? NO ! Well lets do what we allways have attack and destroy wha ever stands in the way.

Our problems have become more complex but the way in which we tackle them remains the same primitive i want to win i got the most you will please me or be scared of me thats the governments law keeping you yourside of the river in your box.

I hate apple buy they said it best we have become the product.
The head said it in their latest attack against facebook add revenue stream each phone has a unique advert id and they have limited the access ios gives out so your data is yours if you chose Zuckerberg is like NO give me that usless crap ill make out everything you google u want.

Soon as the pain of all this debt kicks in and we stop printing money kicking the can down the road the product will become the enemy as it will no longer be fit for purpose no cash flow to please the trillionare gods and shits gonna get real ugly.

 

[Hillhater]

Well.. I live in a state where the local power monopoly has corrupted politics to an extreme so that they can avoid being obsoleted by making government's terms worse and worse for solar panel owners.

i
How do youend up with a “Monopoly” power supplier, in a country/State that is based on a Democratic free market ?
But, you didnt answer the question, ...given acceptable options, would you still choose to go Off Grid, or persist in being fully unconnected ?

And..ianhill... What relevance is that comment to this thread ?.....
....what are you commenting about or responding to ?

 

[neptronix]

Most people's attitudes are based on instant gratification and the idea of saving money long term by investing in certain things are foreign to them because we live in a consumer culture. But one can chose the culture they chose to be part of.

Nicobie has laid out a lot of 'green' things that are fiscally advantageous to invest in. I think our ebikes as transport mechanisms are just the beginning of what can be done on an individual scale. The more individuals take action to vote with their dollars and make good choices, the less power big corp and big gov have.

I'll give you an example of one thing i've done that's pretty powerful.
I became a hypermiler and decided to drive smaller cars indefinitely in 2007 once gas prices had risen to $4.00/gal. I didn't like wars for oil nor the oil industry, not the effect on my pocket book.. i also rode my bike as often as possible.

Well, i've been hypermiling so long that it's a driving habit that never goes away. And i have a cheap gas car i've modified to achieve 60-70mpg. 13 years of using half or less the gas as the average American adds up.

I also teach anyone interested in how to hypermile, or at least pick a more fuel efficient form of transport. I convinced some friends, family, and coworkers into thinking about the impact of a larger vehicle on their wallet and they took it and may spread the info.

I have also ditched big banks for credit unions and convinced others to do the same for purely fiscal reasons.
I have switched my customers over from abusive providers to ones which treat customers right.

..etc etc

Between my actions, i'd estimate $100,000 and growing has been diverted from bad or historically bad industries and into better market players. And that's just the impact of one person. If 25% of the population voted with their dollars the way i do, instead of just complain, the commercial and governmental structures that rule over us would be altered in our collective favor.

 

[neptronix]

How do youend up with a “Monopoly” power supplier, in a country/State that is based on a Democratic free market ?
But, you didnt answer the question, ...given acceptable options, would you still choose to go Off Grid, or persist in being fully unconnected ?

Yes, but the market for energy is not free market here. It is extremely regulated and we end up with local monopolies as a result.

I would like to be fully disconnected eventually if it would be legal to do so. If not, i'd be connected for the sake of compliance only and to have the benefit of a backup power source if needed.

I know i could eventually design a very high reliability power system and depend on it.

 

[Ianhill]

Hands up im a hypermiler.

I've peaked my focus 1.6 tdci to 82.5mpg 2 summers back i had a midnight 250mile journey on a warm night.

I've even learnt to use the aircon on long downhill slopes so its like a form of regen in theory it uses the cars momentum to turn the ac pump id of only been dabbing the brakes a little more and i can not stop the engine tickover.

I done the math on the injector duty during tick over and each cylinder receives 0.014g of fuel and 1ml is 1g so its absolute nothing how we measure it shows the level of engineering skill in modern engines.

 

[nicobie]

^thats interesting^ 1gram/mile!

 

[Hillhater]

^thats interesting^ 1gram/mile!

How do you figure ?..
More like 38.8 gms/mile
(82.5mpg = 20.6 m/ltr
1 ltr Diesel weighs 1x0.8 kg =800 gms
800/20.6 = 38.8 gms/mile ...or in “Eurospeak” 2.42 L/100km

PS..i have a factory stock 2 ltr TDiesel Commodore Wagon (Buick Regal 6th gen), and its computer has logged a 3.0 l/100km over a 50 km run in the past.
Many of the newer modern TD models can easily better 4.0l/100km...(60mpg)

 

[Ianhill]

^thats interesting^ 1gram/mile!

1 gram = 1 milliliter and each bang on tickover theres so little torque needed it only takes 0.014 milliliter and thats like the equivelent to the air humidity just nothing there to the eye.

I said that becuse in adverts showing injectors pulsing loads of fuel flowing thats under heavy load its like the amps flowing on a tesla during ludicrous launch very rare is that demand needed unless you roll coal etc.

 

[JackFlorey]

Well, i've been hypermiling so long that it's a driving habit that never goes away. And i have a cheap gas car i've modified to achieve 60-70mpg. 13 years of using half or less the gas as the average American adds up.

A few years back I got a Prius Prime. It's rated for 25 miles of EV range. I've been hypermiling it just to extend the range, and apparently the EV range meter is adaptive - it uses your past energy usage as a predictor of future energy usage. Now it's displaying 32 miles, and that's pretty accurate.

Since my place of work is ~20 miles from me, and since they have a charger there, I now use about a gallon of gas a month. The only time the gas engine runs is when I have some long distance errand to run (get a brew kettle welded, pick up a battery, something like that.) I am actually running into the 6 month limit for gasoline storage in the tank, but it hasn't been a problem so far.

 

[nicobie]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

Atop a long-dormant volcano in northern Nevada, workers are preparing to start blasting and digging out a giant pit that will serve as the first new large-scale lithium mine in the United States in more than a decade — a new domestic supply of an essential ingredient in electric car batteries and...

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