Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

[markz]

Gasoline shortage on the east coast, pipeline hacked, line ups at the pumps, prices at the pump in some places are sky high.

 

[nicobie]

It's over $4/gal where I live. Maybe we'll get lucky and it will hit $5 soon. :wink:

 

[Hillhater]

Ah, isnt sleepy Joe amusing ?
One of the first things he does in power is to shut down one major oil supply pipe line, then within a few weeks he squeals like a stuck pig when someone else shuts down another oil pipe line :lol:

 

[neptronix]

Wasn't it hackers that did that for ransom money, not the government? where are you getting your information from?

The pipeline is back in operation btw.

 

[Ianhill]

As much as we try to keep to the four points on topic it does show how governmental lead they are and understandably so.

But the actions of a few effect the many and when one band of brother rolls out and another in they very rarely pick and continue without some playing of the rules in their favour that leaves the joe public with mostly what they dont want and nothing they can do about it plus it will cost them their taxes for the foreseeable future, i can see how this thread got political and we need a thread to talk political truths and failures of our system from any time period that has relevance.

I've learnt to understand today you need to know yesterday and for tomorrow you best know today so to see where we are heading you must know were we have been and then the corruption shit show really presents itself as century's of crap policy greedy elite power hungry monsters thats help drag today into the alternate present (biff world)

 

[neptronix]

I can see how this thread got political and we need a thread to talk political truths and failures of our system from any time period that has relevance.

i'm sorry but this is a technology and not a political activism forum.
Joe Biden didn't have anything to do with colonial pipeline getting hacked by a ransomware gang.
Facts aside, it's in very bad taste to interject politics where they don't belong.

 

[Hillhater]

i'm sorry but this is a technology and not a political activism forum.
Joe Biden didn't have anything to do with colonial pipeline getting hacked by a ransomware gang..

Tech forum it is !...and gasoline is a part (if anti-topic). of this thread.
Power supply, and electricity generation are totally entwined with Politics,
It is impossible to understand one without rubbing up against the other.
But the point was....Biden deliberately shut down one oil pipeline for popularity,...then within days cried “Foul” when another party shut down a similar oil pipeline. ...why ?
Do we need oil ,..or dont we ??

 

[Ianhill]

I can see how this thread got political and we need a thread to talk political truths and failures of our system from any time period that has relevance.

i'm sorry but this is a technology and not a political activism forum.
Joe Biden didn't have anything to do with colonial pipeline getting hacked by a ransomware gang.
Facts aside, it's in very bad taste to interject politics where they don't belong.

Tell that to your leaders my freind not me.

Research the past is all i was asking, so we can understand today is all i meant i was not going to be political and i see where this is going.

 

[nicobie]

But the point was....Biden deliberately shut down one oil pipeline for popularity,...then within days cried “Foul” when another party shut down a similar oil pipeline. ...why ?

The first action was done legally. The second was simply extorsion.

It's ok to discuss politics here, just so everyone respects the others viewpoint. Screaming insults at each other is no longer tolerated and is a good way to get banned.

 

[neptronix]

Read the off topic section rules if you don't understand them.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=111522

I gave this thread a stay of execution to see if it could be based on technology and not turn into a partisan shitshow again.

Spirit of the rule: don't bring politics up unless they're relevant to the discussion and objective.

Your post meant to rile up people who support a certain politician and it's the exact kind of post we do not want to see here. The initial post as also not factual ( he did not shut down a pipeline and it has nothing to do with colonial pipeline being hacked ).

I don't want to see more of that on this forum nor the kind of debates that such comments ignited.

 

[Ianhill]

Im going to take a political point and get us back on topic with wind as that always comes after diarrhoea.

Margaret thatcher hated the miners with her iron fist and shut them down in a mannor that was uncalled for at the time

But that same turn of events seen her stand as a pro supporter of global warming and lined britain up for the clean energy push we see today large amounts of offshore wind, (cleaner) gas supplys, much less coal mostly none and nuclear.

So she didnt cock everything up even though she robbed north sea oil and admitted 10 years after power (2002) she doubted global warming and thats mainly due to science and media with harsh approach over hyped a situation and not many countries listened for decades and still today play silly buggers play clean but real not.

I hear how clean china is supposed to be but they are banging coal power plants together for the foresable future as we decommission ours no biggy though as energy on our grid is extremely stable not like some may believe and the prices are competitive for the most part but that over hyped reaction she had that created serious backlash and hatred put us on track and im sorry Us of a but its time uncle sam put down the pickaxe and embraced some new methodology across all states.

 

[neptronix]

If you want to see the energy picture change and don't have the technical chops... then put your efforts into doing it on an individual or organizational level, or put your support into an organization that does.

Ideally you would utilize this forum to learn and contribute to the technical development of these things, or at least show us your cool installation.

The least effective thing to do is to debate others on narratives created by politicians and the media.

This is a technical forum and the reason alternative energy is still called alternative energy is because the technology is some steps away from being a mass solution. Politics need to be a side point and not a main point.

 

[Ianhill]

Bit off topic but Julias sumner i watch his thought experiments and if i can not answer in a basic fashion im missing information.

He done a lyden jar experiment takes it all apart grounds the pieces puts it back together and still gets a spark and asks why is it so.

From how i understand it to ground a conductor takes but a touch to ground but to ground an insulator you must wipe all over the surface so a simple touch to ground would still leave one side full of positive charge and the other negative then reassembly creates a path from its total surface area allowing a full discharge from a small point.

But these old timers certainly knew how to teach very intriguing watch and a decent man learn just one thing a day you will become a very bright person.

 

[nicobie]

Not only does it make our cars run like crap, it costs us money to boot...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-ethanol-gasoline-tax-11621032039

 

[markz]

It destroys automobiles if they are not driven.
The guys over at Roadkill TV Show had to deal with the Obama/Bush crud in their fuel lines/carbs. Its a green crud.

https://energyfactor.exxonmobil.com/perspectives/jay-leno-ethanol-go-way-prohibition/

Jay Leno: Ethanol should go the way of Prohibition

Few people know more about cars than former Tonight Show host Jay Leno. A gearhead with a collection of more than 130 classic vehicles, not to mention an Emmy Award he took home for his show Jay Leno’s Garage, he knows how automotive engines work and what makes them run.

And he knows what they shouldn’t be running on: ethanol.

Leno_Ethanol_03-2015In his latest column for Autoweek, Leno expounds on the damage that ethanol – in the form of legally mandated E10 – can do to engines of older cars. He writes of damage to fuel lines, fuel-pressure regulators, diaphragms, carburetor jets, and the coating of fuel cells inside gas tanks.

Because ethanol can absorb water from ambient air, it can cause corrosion and inhibit combustion. That damage can lead to breakdowns or, as Leno points out, even fires.

The real culprit is a federal law – the Renewable Fuel Standard – that obligates refiners to lace the nation’s gasoline supply with ethanol. I have written about the problems with the RFS on multiple occasions.

“It’s time for us as automobile enthusiasts to dig in our heels and start writing to our congressmen and senators about the Renewable Fuel Standard, or we’ll be forced to use even more ethanol,” he writes. “Most people assume, ‘Oh, that’ll never happen. They’ll never do that.’ Remember prohibition? In 1920, all the saloons were closed. It took until 1933 before legal liquor came back.”

Jay Leno is one of the nation’s preeminent comedians, but as he makes clear, the problems caused by Washington’s misguided ethanol policies are no laughing matter.

https://www.pure-gas.org/
https://www.pure-gas.org/extensions/maps.jsp?statecode=ALL

Not only does it make our cars run like crap, it costs us money to boot...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-ethanol-gasoline-tax-11621032039

 

[Hillhater]

Why would anyone who can afford a 130 car collection even consider running anything on E10 ?
Would you try to run a Ferrari on Diesel ?
Use the correct recommended fuel for the engine.
I have had a 2006 Mitsubishi that has always run E10 and has never been a problem.
The odd time i have tried premium, It runs with no obvious difference in performance or economy.
E10 is a perfectly effective fuel when used in engines set up for it.

 

[Ianhill]

I dont think most realize how compression ratio works an engine thats tuned for premium unledead will have a high octane value and to make the most of that extra woek they squeeze it harder.

The same engine can run e10 but the fuel system needs to have a way of realising what its pumping into the engine so it csn alter the timing and prevent the poor fuel from pre detonationation and causing bent rods melted pistons and all sorts.

Now i will contribute to vital bits of information to our future the Liquid reverse wankel engine check it out very power dense and interesting design makes use of multiple cycles making it a massive improvemnt on its predecessor.

Next univesty of illinous energy prof has some great news to share with us on future small nuclear reactors with a new methodology of fuel safety an overheating fuel will have less fission so run away is not improbale but impossible, biden may just be right 50% of what we need is due on our doorstep in design stage within the next few months but how we act with these designs is what will give the future generations the chance to live in a more clean fashion.

 

[neptronix]

Whatever happens to gasoline doesn't matter to me. Internal combustion is a dead end!

Politicians are always playing games with incentive systems. But the real thing that makes a technology succeed or fail is it's merits. We're one battery technology evolution away from electrics winning.. and that is what matters.

 

[Hillhater]

Whatever happens to gasoline doesn't matter to me. Internal combustion is a dead end!

Whilst i am happy and excited to be living through a technology change to EV transport,...
...your comment is like disowning your parents, and all your lifelong friends !
Without the ICE the world would be a much worse place to live, !
And i would not completely write ICE off just yet,.....if a “clean, cheap and renewable” fuel source is developed, then a mature technology like ICE could well have a role in the future. :wink:

 

[neptronix]

I never liked the ICE to begin with.
Biked long distances as a teen, never got a car until i was in my early 20's when i started a business.
Since i got a car, i did all my own work on the car and hated the ICE more as time went on, lol.

I have a $500 filter in my house because other people's usage of ICEs in my valley gives me headaches all summer and winter otherwise.

Oh i'd be very happy to see the technology go the way of the dodo bird, and it will in 10-20 years.

 

[Ianhill]

Be unwise to assume complete death of the ice engine evem when ice engines had their hay day battery milk floats still worked the uk streets.

Company's like GM done their best to supress electric tech and thats left a bitter taste with some but i dont think ICE will dissappear anytime soon, dont you think we will have a world with no coal burned before ICE cars meet a complete world wide death ?

Over the next decades we will see ways of helping the fuel that is burned be in a more clean fashion.

Its possible to take a litre of fuel and travel further with less emissions not just per mile but litre for litre depending on the stoichiometric efficiency of an engine so its in our interest to have engines that get as close to this perfect value as possible not becuase efficency per mile is increased and the litre still emits its total polition no matter what these engines are cleaner burning.

Its the same spin as clean coal and all though i disagree with that and think its bollocks and thats becuse theres better ways of creating cleaner grid energy but as for a large piece of plant equipment that consumes 4 gallons per mile i dont see that going electric soon even when trucks with long ranges have give enough troubles to date.

Theres another point Nicola what a bunch of crooks and the website still not been pulled down ??? Another round of cash grabbing??? Good on them for robbing GM but tsking investors too bum move.

 

[neptronix]

Be unwise to assume complete death of the ice engine evem when ice engines had their hay day battery milk floats still worked the uk streets.

It won't completely die, it's a technology that will probably find it's last usage in third world nations, shipping boats, etc.. you just won't see it used in consumer transport anymore.

Most automakers have pledged to end their use in 10-20 years. Many large governments also plan to ban their sale in the same time period. ICE would require a breakthrough in efficiency to keep using on a global scale. Increasing efficiency of an ICE seems to increase the cost to a point where it's not competitive so far.. even Mazda's skyactiv-x fails to deliver the efficiency increases they were looking for. Getting better efficiency out of an ICE seems to be a very high hanging fruit.

Company's like GM done their best to supress electric tech and thats left a bitter taste with some but i dont think ICE will dissappear anytime soon, dont you think we will have a world with no coal burned before ICE cars meet a complete world wide death?

Oh that's so far in the past. Nickel metal hydride was a dead end anyway.. in the end GM spent their money very foolishly by buying that technology and shelving it.

Its possible to take a litre of fuel and travel further with less emissions not just per mile but litre for litre depending on the stoichiometric efficiency of an engine so its in our interest to have engines that get as close to this perfect value as possible not becuase efficency per mile is increased and the litre still emits its total polition no matter what these engines are cleaner burning.

Pollution could be reduced from ICE cars by 20-30% by simply aerodynamically optimizing the chassis in the same way that Tesla's done with their cars.. unfortunately few car makers are even interested in that and still keep selling brick shaped things in the USA. I think this would be a good way to stretch ICE technology out a bit, but beyond that, there's little room to improve them.

The electric battery and motor have so much more potential!

 

[Ianhill]

Carbon negative housing.

Jargon? Thats what i thought but no theres a new housing estate going up in uk that has a balance of wood vs concrete etc to end up in a position that its stored as much carbon in its structure as its taken to build it, with heat recovery built in solar and efficient appliances theres a net loss carbon figure as the house matures.

This got me thinking the best houses for this would be log cabins as long as the forest is repopulated pur housing would help tackle the co2 offset.

 

[Hillhater]

Carbon negative housing......
This got me thinking the best houses for this would be log cabins as long as the forest is repopulated pur housing would help tackle the co2 offset.

Why not go the whole hog and revert to cave dwelling....?
Do you see the pattern here ?,,,people slowly regressing to basic living.....
...give up you lifestyle, give up cheap transport, give up reliable energy supply systems,....etc
How far are you prepared to go personally , or let civilised society,..slip back into the stone age ( or even just. “Pre-industrial” life style, .. in attempting to appease the gods of CO2 Theory ?

 

[Ianhill]

Carbon negative housing......
This got me thinking the best houses for this would be log cabins as long as the forest is repopulated pur housing would help tackle the co2 offset.

Why not go the whole hog and revert to cave dwelling....?
Do you see the pattern here ?,,,people slowly regressing to basic living.....
...give up you lifestyle, give up cheap transport, give up reliable energy supply systems,....etc
How far are you prepared to go personally , or let civilised society,..slip back into the stone age ( or even just. “Pre-industrial” life style, .. in attempting to appease the gods of CO2 Theory ?

They gave up 0 thw home was more luxury than my own they were the privaliaged lol.