Wiring/Connecting/Terminating Materials Thread.

[johnrobholmes]

Great thread!


I like silicon wire for most things, but I find that it nicks too easily for wire that is exposed. I prefer teflon wire in this regard. An even better solution is 220v drop cable. I got some 4 conductor seoprene sheath 8awg wire from my local electric supply house. I can run multiple voltages on the bike (main, 12v, 5v, common ground), and the stuff is touch as nails. Tough enough for forklifts to run over, so I don't have worries about crashes causing dead shorts.


For connectors, I use either Castle Creations bullets or Andersons plugs. Andersons get most of the duty when running lower than 35a currents. Deans are not acceptable for my bikes, but I use them on all of my RC cars.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Great thread!


I like silicon wire for most things, but I find that it nicks too easily for wire that is exposed. I prefer teflon wire in this regard. An even better solution is 220v drop cable. I got some 4 conductor seoprene sheath 8awg wire from my local electric supply house. I can run multiple voltages on the bike (main, 12v, 5v, common ground), and the stuff is touch as nails. Tough enough for forklifts to run over, so I don't have worries about crashes causing dead shorts.


For connectors, I use either Castle Creations bullets or Andersons plugs. Andersons get most of the duty when running lower than 35a currents. Deans are not acceptable for my bikes, but I use them on all of my RC cars.

Yes....something most people forget, including me. We are all preoccupied by how much current the cable can carry, or how easy it is to work with, or price...but we seem to forget that we are in the motion business now.....stuff just loves falling off bicycles at speed.

CHeers.

 

[amberwolf]

I can't sometimes even unplug my new andersons, so tightly they sit in each other. Nothing can beat andersons except perhaps the dead soldered or bolted wires

You must be using either the Multipoles or the larger 75A Powerpoles; the little 15/30/45A Powerpoles pop right out even in clusters of four or more, with just a little tug.

I'm also finding that as they wear a bit from a few handfuls of connection cycles, it's possible for a heavy-gauge or multi-cable set to pull them apart just from gravity, given a good bump/drop on the road. They might not pull apart completely, but it is possible for at least the 15A and 30A contacts (I don't have any 45A contacts) to flex inside the housings and cause higher resistance, leading to rapid heating when under load, and I think that an extreme case of this, complete momentary separation of the contact surfaces, may be a part of what causes some people's burned connectors, if they do this under load.

I can't prove this is happening, but it is the most logical explanation for the heating results I am getting and the damage I have seen in other people's pics. If I had clear housings, I probably could video this stuff happening, but they don't make clear ones that I can find.

 

[Seriousknot]

Let me know if you need anderson connector. I work at the place that supplies most of Canada.

Actually, I am getting ready to buy enough Anderson 45's to build two packs in the next day or so.

 

[thedarlington]

i was sold an ebike kit with 3 bullet connectors leading to the motor, when i saw a youtube video about needing to ask for a free replacement to andersons, cuz u know, u bought their kit and stuff, i was told it wasnt really necessary after they specifically state this in their videos to contact them only to get snubbed, now i come to find that they melt...

i think im gonna go for some cheap dean t plug connectors they rate for 100A look solid and its impossible to screw up which is which, btw how hard is it to mate andersons to wire if yo udont have a crimp tool?

 

[liveforphysics]

i was sold an ebike kit with 3 bullet connectors leading to the motor, when i saw a youtube video about needing to ask for a free replacement to andersons, cuz u know, u bought their kit and stuff, i was told it wasnt really necessary after they specifically state this in their videos to contact them only to get snubbed, now i come to find that they melt...

i think im gonna go for some cheap dean t plug connectors they rate for 100A look solid and its impossible to screw up which is which, btw how hard is it to mate andersons to wire if yo udont have a crimp tool?

I think it's pretty easy for a bullet connector to have a higher current capacity than an anderson. If you're not planning on unplugging your motor from the controller very frequently, make sure the bullets fit snug, and you're set IMO. A barrel connector is the ultimate for current vs connector size, followed by pin and socket, then later comes spade and wiper types (anderson).

 

[thedarlington]

ive decided to stick with andersons on the battery since they where already on how i bought it, i was lookin around on ebay and saw some cheap andersons already crimped, this may be the way to go for many of us who dont want to buy expensive crimpers, but theyre all the same looking, so do you need a male and female anderson or do they interchange between each other?


http://cgi.ebay.com/1-PACK-ANDERSON-POWERPOLE-PIGTAIL-14GA-10-PIGTAILS-/140450593510?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20b381fae6#ht_500wt_1154

 

[amberwolf]

They are genderless, so you can plug any into any other of the same contact and housing class.

As long as those wires are long enough for your purposes, pre-crimped and/or soldered might be a good idea for those without the tools or skills to do it. Keep in mind that those are only 30A contacts they are supplying, so make sure that you aren't going to be running near that limit with your system first. Otherwise ask if they'll do the 45A contacts for you instead. If you run close enough to the limit or beyond it, they'll get hot and possibly melt the casings.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Anybody here have a personal opinion, based on experience, of the Weller range of soldering solutions?

I am looking at a few, from the surgical low-wattage irons right up to the 175watt beast.

Thanks.

 

[amberwolf]

I've used a lot of various soldering stuff over the years, and my favorite has been Weller, in it's reliability and how well it's made. They don't wiggle, or fall apart, or have little "problems", etc. THey just work.

There are probalby higher end ones that I have not used.

Other brands are good too; I think Hakko is one.

THe cheap no-names, and ones a little bit above that like Velleman, can be good enough, though, depending what you are going to do and how long you need it to work.

 

[liveforphysics]

Anybody here have a personal opinion, based on experience, of the Weller range of soldering solutions?

I am looking at a few, from the surgical low-wattage irons right up to the 175watt beast.

Thanks.

I've got a handful of multi-hundred-dollar digital temp control soldering irons from name brands.

All crap just collecting dust now.

These little el-cheapo irons are the best thing to ever happen to soldering (except a heat-gun).

Idle's at 20w, just enough to keep the temp up, but not oxidize the tip. Hit the button when you're trying to solder big stuff, bam! 130w power. This is a 20w/130w version. I have a 15w/150w version which has lasted me years now, and I would pick it over the $1,000 soldering iron setups.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270628078191&rvr_id=144166502652&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=%3F*I8&GUID=6f90709b12a0a0aad2e16961fe648ddd&itemid=270628078191&ff4=263602_263622

 

[texaspyro]

For electronics work, I use Pace products. (who's motto seems to be "Hey, we're Pace, bend over while we stick you with our prices)

My main unit is a PRC2000 rework station with all the accessories... it slices, it dices, it makes Julienne fries.... for $6000 or so new it damn well better. It has three channels of temp controlled heat for soldering, vacuum desoldering, hot air tool, SMD tweezers, etc. Solder paste dispenser, vacuum pik, dremel type tool with probe brake (can instantly stops when cutter tip touches an etch), swab plater, 70 amp pulse heat channel for thermal strippers, conformal coating removal, etc. See:

http://cgi.ebay.com/PACE-PRC-2000-REPAIR-CENTER-BENCHTOP-FACTORY-/250575046012?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a576fc57c#ht_2937wt_972

(I have a few used systems available for quite a bit less... PM me if interested)

For brute force stuff, I have irons up to 600 watt. Beyond that there are various torches. And thermite.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

For electronics work, I use Pace products. (who's motto seems to be "Hey, we're Pace, bend over while we stick you with our prices)

My main unit is a PRC2000 rework station with all the accessories... it slices, it dices, it makes Julienne fries.... for $6000 or so new it damn well better. It has three channels of temp controlled heat for soldering, vacuum desoldering, hot air tool, SMD tweezers, etc. Solder paste dispenser, vacuum pik, dremel type tool with probe brake (can instantly stops when cutter tip touches an etch), swab plater, 70 amp pulse heat channel for thermal strippers, conformal coating removal, etc. See:

http://cgi.ebay.com/PACE-PRC-2000-REPAIR-CENTER-BENCHTOP-FACTORY-/250575046012?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a576fc57c#ht_2937wt_972

(I have a few used systems available for quite a bit less... PM me if interested)

For brute force stuff, I have irons up to 600 watt. Beyond that there are various torches. And thermite.

Wow. That sounds like a serious piece of kit. Needless to say I will not be buying one!!! But thanks anyways for the offer. I have found that there seems to be some sort of inverse relationship at work in the realm of electric vehicles. The less money you spend on tools the more appropriate they are for the job. I initially got into thinking that the butane fired solder irons, which require the user to have a proprietary interest in the gas field of central Asia, were the only way to go.

Now it seems that a 100w cheap iron will do the same job with less effort, and can be disposed of afterwards.

One thing everyone should have is this:-

Preferably a pure copper one too.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Anybody here have a personal opinion, based on experience, of the Weller range of soldering solutions?

I am looking at a few, from the surgical low-wattage irons right up to the 175watt beast.

Thanks.

I've got a handful of multi-hundred-dollar digital temp control soldering irons from name brands.

All crap just collecting dust now.

These little el-cheapo irons are the best thing to ever happen to soldering (except a heat-gun).

Idle's at 20w, just enough to keep the temp up, but not oxidize the tip. Hit the button when you're trying to solder big stuff, bam! 130w power. This is a 20w/130w version. I have a 15w/150w version which has lasted me years now, and I would pick it over the $1,000 soldering iron setups.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270628078191&rvr_id=144166502652&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=%3F*I8&GUID=6f90709b12a0a0aad2e16961fe648ddd&itemid=270628078191&ff4=263602_263622

Yes, as I was saying there to TexasPyro, there seems to be some sort of an inverse relationship which governs the EV world. Less is more. More is less. Cheap is the way forward.

 

[texaspyro]

Needless to say I will not be buying one!!!

Well, if you ever have around $600 burning a hole in your pocket I can hook you up...

Nice thing about Ebay is you let some other idiot take the initial hit. When it comes to very nice electrocrap, you can snag it for pennies on the dollar. I have found that I can usually buy a piece of test equipment for less than the cost of renting it for a few days. I bought a bunch of the Pace systems from a avionics repair depot that shut down for less than Pace wanted for a single system.

I am (was?) certified to solder on stuff used for manned space flight (and Illudium-Q36 explosive space modulators). A $20 soldering iron just won't cut it for me. I know all the gory details of bad slobber joints...

 

[nicobie]

I use the same gun that LFP recommended. It does everything I need it to do. I stuck a chisel tip on one of them and it has no trouble doing #10 wire.

@ $10/ea, buy 2 or 3

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Needless to say I will not be buying one!!!

Well, if you ever have around $600 burning a hole in your pocket I can hook you up...

Nice thing about Ebay is you let some other idiot take the initial hit. When it comes to very nice electrocrap, you can snag it for pennies on the dollar. I have found that I can usually buy a piece of test equipment for less than the cost of renting it for a few days. I bought a bunch of the Pace systems from a avionics repair depot that shut down for less than Pace wanted for a single system.

I am (was?) certified to solder on stuff used for manned space flight (and Illudium-Q36 explosive space modulators). A $20 soldering iron just won't cut it for me. I know all the gory details of bad slobber joints...

Hi Texas...is there a preferred iron for BMS work? Thanks.

 

[auraslip]

I just want to say that I've wasted $50 dollars on andersons. All of them are in the trash.

Yes it is my fault for not crimping them properly. BUT to crimp 10guage wire properly you NEED the anderson crimping tool. It cost $50. I'm sorry but I'm not paying $100 to wire up my bike.

I've fallen in love with the bullet connecters from hobby king.

They may seem harder at first, but there is no finicking with different types of crimpers or worrying about them falling apart. And they can handle more amps then you'll ever need.

Next up in ease is the tamiya connects. They only handle ten amps, but are useful lights.

The connects ebike.ca sells for hall sensors are a pain to crimp with regular crimping tools or needlenose.



BTW the flexible wire from hobby king is AWESOMEEEEEeeee. TEN million times easier to work with then home depot wire. Does anyone know where to order it in america, so I don't have to pay such high shipping?

 

[texaspyro]

Hi Texas...is there a preferred iron for BMS work? Thanks.

Most electronics work is done with temperature controlled soldering irons around 25-40 watts (you may need some more oomph for soldering big leads to bus bars, etc). The real ones have sensors in the heater for feedback. The cheap ones just let you adjust the temperature, but don't control it. The Pace units are adjustable up to 900 degrees F and can maintain the tip temperature within 1 degree. Their main problem is that they are hideously expensive.

The Hakko 936 series soldering stations (and their Chinese knockoffs) like the Aoyue 936A are very popular.

 

[liveforphysics]

I use the same gun that LFP recommended. It does everything I need it to do. I stuck a chisel tip on one of them and it has no trouble doing #10 wire.

@ $10/ea, buy 2 or 3

Those little booster irons are badass. So far, everyone I've had try one has it become the favorite iron they own after 5mins of using it.

Under $10 new, and my multi-hundred dollar temp controlled irons have only been dust collectors since getting one.

"fast thermal recovery iron" is generally the name on the package.
Its like having a nitrous button for your soldering iron.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Hi Texas...is there a preferred iron for BMS work? Thanks.

Most electronics work is done with temperature controlled soldering irons around 25-40 watts (you may need some more oomph for soldering big leads to bus bars, etc). The real ones have sensors in the heater for feedback. The cheap ones just let you adjust the temperature, but don't control it. The Pace units are adjustable up to 900 degrees F and can maintain the tip temperature within 1 degree. Their main problem is that they are hideously expensive.

The Hakko 936 series soldering stations (and their Chinese knockoffs) like the Aoyue 936A are very popular.

Cheers Texas!

I had a cheap 25w unit, and after 20 minutes of playing with it, the tip had been eroded by some very expensive silver solder. It's such a racket.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

I use the same gun that LFP recommended. It does everything I need it to do. I stuck a chisel tip on one of them and it has no trouble doing #10 wire.

@ $10/ea, buy 2 or 3

Those little booster irons are badass. So far, everyone I've had try one has it become the favorite iron they own after 5mins of using it.

Under $10 new, and my multi-hundred dollar temp controlled irons have only been dust collectors since getting one.

"fast thermal recovery iron" is generally the name on the package.
Its like having a nitrous button for your soldering iron.

Next $20 in my PayPal I am getting one. Unfortunately this weeks money went on my asthma medication and my loan repayments :x

 

[texaspyro]

I had a cheap 25w unit, and after 20 minutes of playing with it, the tip had been eroded by some very expensive silver solder. It's such a racket.

That's what you get for cheap. A decent, plain jane soldering iron tip sells for several bucks each. Most common makers are Pace and Plato. Some of the specialized tips that I have list for over $200 ea. I've been known to buy a several hundred dollar rework station just to rob some specialized tip from it, then refurb and resell the station.

Tips and tip coatings/platings have lots of jiujiu and black magic in them. Good ones will last forever if you take care of them. Will dissolve away in seconds if you don't use them correctly. A tiny nick in the plating is like a cavity in a tooth. Once it starts, it's all over.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

I had a cheap 25w unit, and after 20 minutes of playing with it, the tip had been eroded by some very expensive silver solder. It's such a racket.

That's what you get for cheap. A decent, plain jane soldering iron tip sells for several bucks each. Most common makers are Pace and Plato. Some of the specialized tips that I have list for over $200 ea. I've been known to buy a several hundred dollar rework station just to rob some specialized tip from it, then refurb and resell the station.

Tips and tip coatings/platings have lots of jiujiu and black magic in them. Good ones will last forever if you take care of them. Will dissolve away in seconds if you don't use them correctly. A tiny nick in the plating is like a cavity in a tooth. Once it starts, it's all over.

Fortunately the vast majority of the work is donkey work, belting copper braids and shim onto batteries. You can get a set of tips to do that for around $10. However when I go to make up BMS units I am going to have to get proper tools, it seems.

 

[Gregb]

I recently bought a cell log 8M voltmeter and this showed that one of the sockets on the 9pin connector on my LiFepo4 battery was faulty.
It is not possible to reconnect it. Does anyone know where these in line sockets can be bought?? They are very similar to ribbon connector types but would prefer a different manner of connection ie crimp or even solder.
Thanks
Greg