Worksman PAV-3 E-Trike

[64ragtop]

Well, I finally got the Worksman trike electrified and on the road, only to find that it REALLY needs better brakes!

I would guess that it takes three to four times the stopping distance I am used to from my other bike and E-scooter experience.

Here's the beast in all it's glory:



I added a caliper (BMX) style brake to the front wheel to supplement the coaster brake in the Sturmey-Archer 3-speed rear hub.

Both brakes DO work, but the rear howls and groans, and pulls the rear of the trike to the right. also, it just doesn't seem that the front rim brake is doing much stopping at all. I would bet the rear hub brake is simply WAY overloaded, since that hub is used on lightweight cruiser bikes, and I'm no lightweight feller. The front brake seemed like it OUGHT to work fine, and I will stop the wheel when I hold the front up and spin or try to rotate the wheel, but on the road - - well, it's better than the Fred Flintstone method (or at least it's easier on my shoe leather ) but I'd really rather have some better WHOA!!! power.

I'm wondering if there are some better brake pads for the rim brake, and what might they be. I also wonder if the extra length of brake cable (about a foot and a half, or so) that loops down past the caliper and back up to work the brake from the bottom might rob some efficiency from that system. The bike shop just couldn't locate the hardware to convert the BMX caliper from bottom to top activation, but neither the bike mechanic nor I thought it would make a lot of difference.

As always, I await the collective wisdom of the group, but I'm spoilin' for some ride time!

ATB

BC

 

[docnjoj]

Certainly some Kool-Stop pads would be the first step for the front brakes!
otherDoc

 

[EVnewbie]

+1 on the Kool-Stop pads,
Get the Kool-Stops and the right ones are quite distinctive...they are black and red. I've been using Kool-Stops on my recumbents for years and they work very well. If that won't do, get another fork that supports disc brakes and run a 180mm disc with an Avid BB7 caliper. Use good cables/housings, cut the foot or so extra out and enjoy the ride.

 

[64ragtop]

+1 on the Kool-Stop pads,
Get the Kool-Stops and the right ones are quite distinctive...they are black and red. I've been using Kool-Stops on my recumbents for years and they work very well. If that won't do, get another fork that supports disc brakes and run a 180mm disc with an Avid BB7 caliper. Use good cables/housings, cut the foot or so extra out and enjoy the ride.

Thanx for the testimonial, got a local source for Kool-Stop pads and will have them tomorrow. The reason for the extra cable length is that the brake caliper (the only one in stock) is for a BMX bike where those folks run the brake cable down the steerer tube so they can twirl the handlebars and still have a front brake. I've not yet found the hardware to convert the caliper to pull from the top, so this is what I have:



But if the "extra" cable out the bottom of the steerer and looping back up to the caliper works on a BMX bike, it seems it should work on my trike. Personally, I don't much care for the look of the loop, but I need the small parts to rework the caliper or to get a top pull version, or live with what I have

 

[Takemehome]

It looks like a E-bike kit, with Infineon controller, right ?
You could put it in regen braking mode to reduce your speed and get some energy back.
Regen is only ~5% but it really helps on the braking.

 

[dogman dan]

Hunt for a fork that fits, with v brakes. Should be common enough on bmx bikes. Or, if that's impossible, the cheapie steel suspension forks have a horse shoe on the top that holds the v brake bosses. That could be cut off, and welded to your forks by a competent welder. The fork is steel I assume. The loop is the big problem, if you can just eliminate that, you'd be a lot better off. Looks like a great trike!

 

[diver]

I used the worksman wheels on my heavy trikes and my mars dual powered trike. Im surprised they used wimpy brakes on the pav. If im not mistaken did it not come with front drum brakes before you converted it
thanks

 

[spinningmagnets]

Just for conversation, heres a brake handle that actuates two cables. It would be possible to add a second brake behind the fork to add more pad friction area...

Also read up on "plug brake" and I think you'll find that your front hub can be a very inexpensive and effective magnetic brake.

http://cargocycling.org/2009/06/dual-pull-brake-lever.html

 

[64ragtop]

I used the worksman wheels on my heavy trikes and my mars dual powered trike. Im surprised they used wimpy brakes on the pav. If im not mistaken did it not come with front drum brakes before you converted it? thanks

Yeah, Worksman had a Sturmey-Archer drum on the front wheel, along with the wimpy tire-drive 12 volt front motor with the "high-tech" clutch that used a cord to be tied to the handlebar to disengage the drive. Of course, the hubmotor replaced the hub brake - necessitating the rim brake.

It looks like a E-bike kit, with Infineon controller, right ?
You could put it in regen braking mode to reduce your speed and get some energy back.
Regen is only ~5% but it really helps on the braking.

The kit is from E-BikeKit.com, the controller is unbranded and there's no mention of regenerative braking in the instructions.

ATB

BC

 

[torker]

I've got a centerpull caliper on the front of mine and it worked great with my old mt. bike brake levers. When I switched to the levers that came with my ebikekit motor/ like yours, it took lots of lever pressure to make them work. The mt. bike levers had more leverage but less throw. The ebike levers have more throw but less leverage. Hope this makes sense. The ebike levers work great for my rear v-brakes but not so for calipers. A short throw lever will have the cable farther from the pivot and usually a longer handle.

 

[64ragtop]

I've got a centerpull caliper on the front of mine and it worked great with my old mt. bike brake levers. When I switched to the levers that came with my ebikekit motor/ like yours, it took lots of lever pressure to make them work. The mt. bike levers had more leverage but less throw. The ebike levers have more throw but less leverage. Hope this makes sense. The ebike levers work great for my rear v-brakes but not so for calipers. A short throw lever will have the cable farther from the pivot and usually a longer handle.

Thanks, torker! I hate to admit it, but I didn't even think about a leverage difference when I pulled the lever that came on the Worksman, only that I needed to change to a lever with a switch for the motor cut-out. DRAT!!! surprised by dat ol' debbil applied PHYSICS again I will have to make that comparison from here on out - if I remember.....

But at any rate, I think changing these:



And from this:



To THIS:



Should make a major improvement in the front wheel braking. The Kool-Stop pads are almost twice as long and slightly wider than the originals, not to mention their (supposedly) superior friction compound and better adjustability. And the new side-pull caliper will pull from the top and eliminate that extra cable loop and length. I'll know more tomorrow! Thanks to all for the input, and I'll happily hear any more experienced opinions - as always....

ATB

BC

 

[Takemehome]

The kit is from E-BikeKit.com, the controller is unbranded and there's no mention of regenerative braking in the instructions.

Jason sends Infineon controllers with the kits. ( Unless he changed lately )

Open it and jump the BK pad to the GND pad. You have regen activated by the e-brake.

Read this Infineon thread , you'll be surprised what this controller can do.

 

[torker]

Now I have a question since were talking regen and brakes. Say he decided he wanted to change one brake handle. Can you unhook one and the motor still run? Also I've read that a short in the brake lever can cause a runaway. Is this a nc or no switch?

 

[BLUESTREAK]

NORMALLY OPEN, If all else fails you can use "METHODS" setup that he used on his first tryout of his 2 motorized wheels, HA HA. PS. yes it will work with just one lever and no runaway if you short the brake wires all this does is cut power going to the motor. sorry i missed your question the first time.

 

[torker]

Awesome, thanks for the reply cause I need to change my front lever for this very reason. Need more torque :lol: