worlds best mainstream unheard of factory ebike? ~$1500US

[Chalo]

i have ~:

http://suzhoulongyue.en.made-in-china.com/product/cBdxLsohwkVC/China-Mountain-Electric-Bike-Tda1501z.html

Wow!

That's a truly spectacular achievement, making a bike that's even uglier than anything from Walmart. I'd applaud, but I need both hands to keep the vomit from leaving my mouth.

Satan truly walks-- no, rides his e-bike-- among us.

 

[cycleops612]

i have ~:

http://suzhoulongyue.en.made-in-china.com/product/cBdxLsohwkVC/China-Mountain-Electric-Bike-Tda1501z.html

Wow!

That's a truly spectacular achievement, making a bike that's even uglier than anything from Walmart. I'd applaud, but I need both hands to keep the vomit from leaving my mouth.

Satan truly walks-- no, rides his e-bike-- among us.

not my scene, its a bike primarily for gods sake, not art.

I bought it for the engineering and barely considered looks.

however, functionality is beauty to me, and yes, i did think the lines were very well engineered for light and strong. The seat post buttress and crossbar curve e.g., make engineering sense to me. the transition from thicker to thinner tubing at the seat post continues the stronger curved shape near perfectly, and is beutifully executed. welds these days are near perfect. amazing to we older pre mig folk.

my problem is, like you, they focused too much on aesthetics, when a frame with room for a decent battery would be better. Hence my preference for the other frame.

I shall leave looks for u & others to discuss. Its separate to my point.

 

[Lurkin]

Gotta love that super processed, salty canned ham...

 

[d8veh]

The single best thing u can do to address an ebikes most fundamental limitations is to simply use the gears that are already on ~every MTB anyway (for the same reason, limits of pedal power) - 24 gears. with a bafang u remove 2/3 of what u already had b4 u motorise a mtb. It doesnt sit comfortably with me.

Everything has advantages and disadvantages. FYI some road bikers are now use a single chainring on the crank:

http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/reviews/should-you-get-1x-drivetrain-your-road-bike

When you have motor assist, it'll take away the disadvantages mentioned in the above article. You only need lots of gears when you have low power. At least you have the option to use a double chainring on the Bofeili whether you need it or not.

This is the nicest bike I've seen with the Bofeili motor. I've seen that bike a couple of other times with different branding. The photos show it with and without a front derailleur.

http://m2sbikes.com/

Personally, I don't like crank-drive bikes. They're not so bad on the open road, but when you get cars or people jumping out on you so that you have to stop quickly, you get stuck in too high a gear, which makes it difficult and unpleasant to get going again with all that gear crashing. Anecdotally, it appears that gear and chain wear is very rapid with crank-drives compared with almost non-existent with hub-motors. I find that hub motors give a more pleasant and relaxing ride. By relaxing I don't mean lazy. I mean less to disturb your enjoyment.

I use the Xiongda 2-speed hub-motor, which overcomes the main disadvantage of hub-motors that's low-speed hill-climbing. The main thing is to find a system that suits your way of riding. It took me about 20 bike-builds to find my nirvana. On the other hand. I've ridden hundreds of different electric bikes, and there's not one of them that I wouldn't want to own if there were no other electric bikes in the world.

 

[amberwolf]

it puzzles me that 24 vs 8 gears alone isnt as dead sexy to others as it is to me in a mid drive. Thats better than a ferrari.

I have zero gears (or call it one if you like) in the motor drivetrain (twin hubmotors) on my CrazyBike2 and SB Cruiser trike, and since it's relatively flat around here, I can still deal with just about anything I've run across without problems, and more than sufficient performance to haul a couple St. Bernards around (or many bags of their food, or my groceries or other cargo, or sometimes all three).

And neither bike/trike cost me anything like $1500...even if I added everthing up on *both* bikes it doesnt' come close to that. The single most expensive thing on there was one of the batteries, and that *was* expensive, though (about a third of the cost of the bike in this thread).

And both of them can do a lot more of the things I need to do than the bike in this thread could.

So it depends on what someone needs to do, among other things, as to whether it's fair to call something "best". This bike could never be "best" anything for someone with my dog- and cargo-hauling needs.



FWIW, I used to use a crank drive...with a powerchair motor & gearbox. See the early CrazyBike2 thread pages for details. It was nice having the gears...except there were so many ways for it to fail, and I managed to get a lot of them in a short space of time. I've killed hubmotors too, and wheels built on them, but they've ended up being simpler and more reliable for my purposes.

I intend to re-try a crank drive type of system eventually, but I'll leave the hubmotors on there too.

 

[LewTwo]

There have been any number of different mid drives designed and created but the number that have survived and prospered in the market is somewhat more limited. The problem is if you somehow burn up the controller (or other part) in two years can you find a dealer to order a replacement from or do have to trash the whole bike?

Other than bafang and a few others, your objections apply to all ebike kits/motors.

It does not apply to mid drives that fit a standard bottom bracket or to hub motors in general. Even if the entire electrical propulsion system vaporizes you still have a useable frame left. You are exactly correct with hub motors you can many times mix and match controllers from different providers ... even on occasion switch from an internal hub controller to an external.

Correct me if I am wrong but I had not seen one source anywhere for parts for the bofeili drive including their own company web pages. Interesting: The most powerful drive they have listed on any of their product pages is 180 watts.

Also as I earlier suggested there are two listings on ebay for single units:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321657708110
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321657694115
In both cases the US price is $1,500 plus shipping. Noticeably missing from the description is the motor rating.
The seller is:
e-Bike USA
33845 Hwy. 99E
Tangent, OR 97389
Phn: 541-924-1837
http://e-bikesusa.com/about-e-bikes-usa/
Noticeably missing from their web page is the motor rating or any options for a more powerful motor.

There is one user that posted a video reporting 77 kph (45 mph) with no load.

As I said before "I like the concept". But in my opinion there is way too little information available to risk $1700-$3000 on. Truth be known: their marketing department (if they even have one among their 250 employees) has done a piss poor job of publicizing their products .. at least in the english speaking markets. There may be more information among other languages as their primary markets are listed as North and South Europe and Central America.

Reference:
http://www.bofeili.com/cn/index.aspx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l98Gse3P63w

 

[LewTwo]

Wow!
That's a truly spectacular achievement, making a bike that's even uglier than anything from Walmart. I'd applaud, but I need both hands to keep the vomit from leaving my mouth.
Satan truly walks-- no, rides his e-bike-- among us.

I have a Schwinn Voyager that is nearly as ugly (we all make mistakes). I was trying to avoid the obvious aesthetics issues as I thought evaluating it as overpriced, underpowered and overweight was probably offensive by itself.

 

[amberwolf]

Truth be known: their marketing department (if they even have one among their 250 employees) has done a piss poor job of publicizing their products .. at least in the english speaking markets.

If you mean Bofeili "brand" itself, they mostly appear to have hired a bunch of spammers to go around to forums like ours and post a bunch of badly-written marketing spam (some from obvious shills with same IP/etc as the spammers posting at the same time), most just plain spam ads in all the various subforums, perhaps a couple of years or so ago (maybe longer, can't remember now). We had such a bad problem with it at the time that it was hard to keep up.

But actual marketing and promotion thru sensible channels...I have no idea.

 

[Chalo]

The seat post buttress and crossbar curve e.g., make engineering sense to me. the transition from thicker to thinner tubing at the seat post continues the stronger curved shape near perfectly,

People who understand that bike frames are trusses and wheels are tensegrity structures, understand that you don't make those things from curved parts if you want them to be light and strong.

Or they can be Chinese product designers who don't actually care about anything that happens before or after closing the sale.

If the rest of this bike is as well thought out as the structural design-- and I bet it is-- then it should be just the thing for sitting undisturbed in the garage for a few years until the wife puts it in a yard sale.

 

[2old]

EProdigy, a Canadian company, is using this system on some decent looking, but too expensive bikes. Two year warranty offered. Also, Flux, with three models using a 250w motor, generated $1.5 million with their crowdfunded campaign. Thing that is somewhat attractive is that with hidden electronics, a la Faraday, this would be pretty stealth.

 

[cycleops612]

The single best thing u can do to address an ebikes most fundamental limitations is to simply use the gears that are already on ~every MTB anyway (for the same reason, limits of pedal power) - 24 gears. with a bafang u remove 2/3 of what u already had b4 u motorise a mtb. It doesnt sit comfortably with me.

Everything has advantages and disadvantages. FYI some road bikers are now use a single chainring on the crank:

http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/reviews/should-you-get-1x-drivetrain-your-road-bike

When you have motor assist, it'll take away the disadvantages mentioned in the above article. You only need lots of gears when you have low power. At least you have the option to use a double chainring on the Bofeili whether you need it or not.

This is the nicest bike I've seen with the Bofeili motor. I've seen that bike a couple of other times with different branding. The photos show it with and without a front derailleur.

http://m2sbikes.com/

Personally, I don't like crank-drive bikes. They're not so bad on the open road, but when you get cars or people jumping out on you so that you have to stop quickly, you get stuck in too high a gear, which makes it difficult and unpleasant to get going again with all that gear crashing. Anecdotally, it appears that gear and chain wear is very rapid with crank-drives compared with almost non-existent with hub-motors. I find that hub motors give a more pleasant and relaxing ride. By relaxing I don't mean lazy. I mean less to disturb your enjoyment.

I use the Xiongda 2-speed hub-motor, which overcomes the main disadvantage of hub-motors that's low-speed hill-climbing. The main thing is to find a system that suits your way of riding. It took me about 20 bike-builds to find my nirvana. On the other hand. I've ridden hundreds of different electric bikes, and there's not one of them that I wouldn't want to own if there were no other electric bikes in the world.

funny u should mention "I use the Xiongda 2-speed hub-motor", its my nirvanah~ for ` the reasons you list.

add a front xiongda 2-speed hub motor (with an auto mode btw) (and a decent battery) to my bofeili motor bike. takes a lot of the inevitable mid-drive heat off the chain. Get rolling on the hub drive, then use either or both to suit, with smooth shifts on the chain.

2WD for grip in wet, sand, snow?

another poster ,BTW, referred to 2 rings on the front. it is of course 3 rings front and 8 gears rear equalling 24 total (shimano).

Yep, its a given that best is subjective and each has its good and bad.

EU rules are 200w max street legal on what we call ebikes. Trust me. You need gears, but you could climb the rockies, slowly.

my bike remains a a bicycle, an alloy MTB I can heft on my shoulder, take on a train, use a car bike rack... (the specs say 23kg ex battery).

what many of u advocate is more an electric motorbike. Even were i allowed 700 watts ala USA, i would opt for something leaner like this in a 450 or 500w, but even then, you need to be gentle on those shifts with that power. Maybe newbies ought practice shifts a lot on a junk mtb first.

my 350w bike is an incredibly versatile tool. just a MTB with a battery.

 

[Bicycle365]

Mainstream - Unheard of
Oxymoron

 

[MadRhino]

what many of u advocate is more an electric motorbike.

Yep. 20 Kw fed to a big hub is making gears useless. :wink:
Even in mountain trails, driving the chain of a bicycle drivetrain is a hassle to shift and unreliable to maintain.

 

[cycleops612]

Mainstream - Unheard of
Oxymoron

ok, unheard of by gangin~

you do know china has a billion very cycle centric people and this is a chinese company and chinese companies are still getting the hang of doing biz in the west yet they are still making them after many years and expanding their range (i found more models, I may post them)

it could conceivably be the largest seller on the globe, and unheard of in america.

that gentlemen is my point.

it certainly appeals to me, and surely others, yet it has to be hunted down cunningly to get one.

 

[LewTwo]

what many of u advocate is more an electric motorbike.

Yep. 20 Kw fed to a big hub is making gears useless. :wink:
Even in mountain trails, driving the chain of a bicycle drivetrain is a hassle to shift and unreliable to maintain.

That is why they build NuVinci CVT hubs

 

[cycleops612]

what many of u advocate is more an electric motorbike.

Yep. 20 Kw fed to a big hub is making gears useless. :wink:
Even in mountain trails, driving the chain of a bicycle drivetrain is a hassle to shift and unreliable to maintain.

That is why they build NuVinci CVT hubs

for me its more about having the ideal ratio for prevailing terrain/needs/battery level

whatever, FYI, it seems to me gears are becoming superfluous on modern EVs. If they start with a hi voltage, they can achieve a similar effect by varying voltage to the motor, or some such. NEAT> no transmission at all.

 

[cycleops612]

what many of u advocate is more an electric motorbike.

Yep. 20 Kw fed to a big hub is making gears useless. :wink:
Even in mountain trails, driving the chain of a bicycle drivetrain is a hassle to shift and unreliable to maintain.

ESPECIALLY ON MOUNTAIN TRAILS< A HEAVY BATTERY AND BIKE IS A PAIN< FOR THE TRAILS TOO> - sorry 4 caps

Last I heard, every motor has a preferred rpm range. Brute power isnt an easy (or legal?) option, as in petrol, so we must be fussier about such efficiencies.

 

[cycleops612]

Good parts it seems... compared to the ebike expo I attended recently that bike would fall in the top 10 among ~130 models. Top 2 for price!

Thats not fair. All else here had to form their impressions in the absence of any knowledge

What you say is total opposite of many here. I am no maven, so what could I say to contradict them? Even on paper the bits seem good - brand names etc. So I have to wonder at such behaviour.

They may not speak english, but they are not stupid. Clearly they have a superior offering. Why would they nickel and dime on parts and spoil that perception?

This preconception of mine has been confirmed during ownership. Its all alloy/stainless. No rust in 3 years~

My only problem in 3 years has been adjusting slipping shimano deraileurs - not my thing, unrelated to the motor

Or even more simply, quality is mostly about weight. 23kg inc motor & ex battery is not bad vs a quality alloy MTB methinks?

 

[MadRhino]

Why would they nickel and dime on parts and spoil that perception?

Because no one is stupid enough to put a 2000$ fork on a bike that is sold 1500$, or any other top quality components for that matter. When you wat to sell an ebike 1500$, you have to nickel and dime on EVERYTHING to make a small profit.

The bike is a good bang for the buck that's it, it is legal and maybe reliable at the power it is set to.

 

[cycleops612]

Why would they nickel and dime on parts and spoil that perception?

Because no one is stupid enough to put a 2000$ fork on a bike that is sold 1500$, or any other top quality components for that matter. When you wat to sell an ebike 1500$, you have to nickel and dime on EVERYTHING to make a small profit.

The bike is a good bang for the buck that's it, it is legal and maybe reliable at the power it is set to.

"no one is stupid enough to put a 2000$ fork on a bike", sounds right to me.

It seems u have me. It does NOT have top quality (not what I said, & I even listed the major component makers) components.

They have a 16kg carbon fiber hub drive model for ~3k$ retail if u prefer.

 

[MadRhino]

"no one is stupid enough to put a 2000$ fork on a bike", sounds right to me.

To you, but sounds right to many other riders. This is all about how fast and hard and where the bike does ride. One would have to be suicidal to ride 50 Mph in the mountain with 50$ brakes and a 100$ fork. The same goes for all bike components, that varies from crap to extreme. Brands are meaning nothing, for most are making all the variety.

Bicycle suspension varies from 80$ to 4000$, because all of them is making sense to someone. I witnessed many kids breaking bones just riding the city parks, because they were riding a Wallbike in the stairs like it was a pro MTB. Some of them quit doing that sort of riding, we see the others flying the stairs on 7000$ bikes the next year.

 

[cycleops612]

"no one is stupid enough to put a 2000$ fork on a bike", sounds right to me.

To you, but sounds right to many other riders. This is all about how fast and hard and where the bike does ride. One would have to be suicidal to ride 50 Mph in the mountain with 50$ brakes and a 100$ fork. The same goes for all bike components, that varies from crap to extreme. Brands are meaning nothing, for most are making all the variety.

Bicycle suspension varies from 80$ to 4000$, because all of them is making sense to someone. I witnessed many kids breaking bones just riding the city parks, because they were riding a Wallbike in the stairs like it was a pro MTB. Some of them quit doing that sort of riding, we see the others flying the stairs on 7000$ bikes the next year.

of course u r right & i sorta regretted expressing it as i did. But to bring it up in the context of a$1500 bikes specs is kinda weird.

 

[cycleops612]

I have been sniffing around a bit more:

This with a well mounted 15ah 36v lifepo4 and a 450w motor would do my 75kg just fine, even if cost were no object.

I am skeptical about the 18kg net weight specified. I cant see where they saved 5kg. I dont think them liars, just hopeless with websites.

I still like it and may well upgrade to it (ex battery).

https://longyeah.en.alibaba.com/product/1273190722-214004845/26_high_quality_e_bike.html

There is a ladies version i notice, of the crank drive motor, but with a chain guard and single front sprocket, it defeats much of its benefit over a standard mid drive.

e.g.

https://alienozo.en.alibaba.com/product/60174966636-801055155/cheap_central_motor_electric_bike_MTB_bicycle_bofeili_electric_mountain_bicycle_30_vary_speed.html



as I suspected, there are some hi end bikes & pricing (like 3k pounds) on rebadged versions of this longyeah bike - a carbon pose machine, but the pretty battery is a joke imho. Give me an ugly one with oomph anyday.


some interesting tech info re the motor on this site also - efficiency vs rpm etc

https://alienozo.en.alibaba.com/product/60366826593-801031264/high_quality_Germany_design_mid_drive_electric_mountain_bicycle_motorized_e_bike_conversion_kit.html

also fyi

https://alienozo.en.alibaba.com/product/60174966636-801055155/cheap_central_motor_electric_bike_MTB_bicycle_bofeili_electric_mountain_bicycle_30_vary_speed.html

 

[cycleops612]

It seems clear here that many are not clear on the fundamentals of the world bike market.

America is not dominant market, and certainly not a producer.

The big thing is to be legal under eu rules. the CE/EN15194 certification

their formal brochures always spec the bike power accordingly - 250w or less.

this is usually little more than a formality. They are very flexible and understated.

basically they have 2 motors - windings? - i think. one probably takes you to 450w at 36v, and the other to about 700w or more maybe. The rider should be skilled enough not to overtax the chain drive at these levels methinks tho.

i repeat tho, the batteries are a joke. avoid if u can. get a lifepo4.

 

[LewTwo]

... This with a well mounted 15ah 36v lifepo4 and a 450w motor ...

I have yet to see anyone advertising a BOFEILI mid drive higher than 350 watts ... and I tend to take that one with a bit of salt.

I am skeptical about the 18kg net weight specified. I can't see where they saved 5kg.

The Flux Roadie version is 49 pounds (22Kg) with 650b rims, narrow tires, aluminum frame/fork, rigid fork, 250 watt motor and Samsung 13 Ahr Battery but without fenders, rack, or other accessories. Indeed it is hard to conceive where they are reducing the weight further short of a carbon fiber frame (or excluding the battery weight). By the way the FLUX introductory offers ended Sunday midnight.

Correct me if I am wrong but it seems that most of the BOFEILI frames come with 650b rim/tires. Now I understand that their was a big push for 650b as the NEXT big thing in bicycle rims but it seems that the real enthusiasm for the size came from the marketing people rather than the public ... certainly not from the tire manufacturers as the selection is still limited.

Biggest problem I see with the carbon Fiber version (other than the price and rim size) is the integrated handlebar. It does not leave one many options to avoid the 'hunch back' riding posture.