Worst foods declared by the World Health Org. pg 37

Hillhater said:
I fully agree that transport, of most forms , is a poor use of a valuable critical resource such as Oil, an we should move to Ebike / EV based technologies as soon as practical.
BUT .. i do not agree that CO2 is “bad” ...since it is essential for most forms of life on our planet !
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Well, water is good for you, but you wouldn't like to be waterboarded. More is not better once you cross a certain range.

CO2 is far from the only pollutant from fossil fuels to be concerned about though. Electric vehicle parts also have a considerable environmental footprint. The approach i like is to improve efficiency of the vehicle regardless of the powertain. Of course i always prefer an electric drive because of it's superior characteristics.
 
Hillhater said:
AFFECTING...is not Controlling which you stated ,!
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affecting is control. we control the pollution.

you can affect how fast you drive by controlling your vehicle. or are you implying we are not on control of frocking up the planet? you do know you can turn off a factory right? doing so has an affect on the climate, and thus we are in control of the climate.

and we controlled the weather back in the 60's or seomthing by dumping chemicals in the air that made rain or something ant remember exactly the details.

ps: dont confuse climate with weather.
 
yes, there was acid rain in the 70's- if a car got rained on and you didn't wipe it off, it would spot. a PITA.
and another- the ozone layer- they say the ozone hole is getting back to normal, now that R22 was phased out.
That is 2 times humans changed and it improved 8)
 
Ozone has all sorts of terminology available if you want to go read it, but basically it's been more than a decade since we turned the corner and it stopped shrinking and started growing. It was one of the weather concerns and remains one, but in a decade more we are expecting to reach the halfway point in the recovery, with maybe 3 decades after that to reach normal.

More than just R22. I found my old Halon fire extinguisher. Great for use around video and other electronic equipment, but the manufacture of it deleted the ozone. You don't see the Halon out there other than for specialized fire fighting, where they don't have a replacement yet.
 
Start cracking down on big cities with smog problems. And we will see how big the problem is with plastic straws, yet they do nothing about packaging of foods and the packages they use for take out. I went to Costco recently, Charmin TP has 4 rolls wrapped in plastic with another 6 of those 4 rolls, yet again wrapped in plastic. Then they have all the meat wrapped in plastic, all the pop cans got plastic rings to hold 6 packs and even more plastic to hold multiple 6 packs on a cardboard base.
 
flippy said:
Hillhater said:
AFFECTING...is not Controlling which you stated ,!
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affecting is control. we control the pollution.

are you implying we are not on control of frocking up the planet? you do know you can turn off a factory right? doing so has an affect on the climate, and thus we are in control of the climate.

ps: dont confuse climate with weather.
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And do not confuse “CLIMATE “ with “ ATMOSPHERE’.....
Definition. CLIMATE.. (from Ancient Greek klima, meaning inclination) is commonly defined as the weather averaged over a long period. The standard averaging period is 30 years, but other periods may be used depending on the purpose. Climate also includes statistics other than the average, such as the magnitudes of day-to-day or year-to-year variations...

... ATMOSPHERE ..(from the greek words ἀτμός (atmos), meaning 'vapour', and σφαῖρα (sphaira), meaning 'ball' or 'sphere') is a layer or a set of layers of gases surrounding a planet or other material body, that is held in place by the gravity of that body.
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So, an the atmosphere is an actual phyical mass of gasses.
Whilst a climate is a “concept” with no actual physical content.

You may affect the physical properties of the atmosphere, but that is NOT the Climate !
 
In 1967 i was 15, dad had a new 67 fairlane, and on trips to NYC it was really polluted. There was lead in gas and it was discovered that lead made kids dumb and polluted air caused health problems for adults. But the new car only cost $3,000 :D
No more lead in gas and much cleaner air, new vehicles near $40k :shock:
so humans can clean up their act when they want to, it just costs $$$$$$$$$$$.
 
AFAICR, they say trapped greenhouse gasses. Methane is said to be the primary villain. So what causes all the methane? is it fossil fuels? They say it is the meat industry- eating all those burgers and pizza has a high price.
From the biosphere failure, i learned that people don't want to give up the foods that are blamed for melting the ice caps. Cows fart a heck of a lot of methane. :lol:
Please note i am not an expert on this :shock: There are endless arguments on the topic and i'm not qualified to provide more detail. Do your own homework on this! :mrgreen:
 
Matt Gruber said:
AFAICR, they say trapped greenhouse gasses. Methane is said to be the primary villain. So what causes all the methane? ..
...Cows fart a heck of a lot of methane. :lol:
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Cow farts ?.. that is just a nice news topic..
Most methane comes from Natural decomposition like swamps , and huge amounts from Termites.
But methane is far from the worst ..
Number one offender ?....Water Vapour,, ! :shock:
Water?..., according to the IPCC, steam accounts for 36-70 percent of the greenhouse effect. Fog, haze and clouds are all water vapor, and steam is the other main byproduct of the combustion of fossil fuels. Worse still, warming causes a positive feedback loop as higher temperatures result in more water vapor, which results in higher temperatures, and so on and so on. Now the next time someone asks you about your carbon footprint, you can ask them about their steam footprint, and see if that patchouli-scented hippie knows the main cause behind the greenhouse effect.
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And then there are new substances like this...
The new kid on the block, MIT scientists identified Sulfuryl Fluoride as a greenhouse gas on March 11th, 2009. Used as a fumigant, Dow Chemicals produces sulfuryl fluoride to kill termites. The chemical, which is highly inert, has a lifetime of up to 40 years, and traps 4,800 times more heat per molecule than CO2. The chemical only exists in 1.5 parts per trillion in the atmosphere, but according to the recent Journal of Geophysical Research, that number is going up by 5 percent a year.
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Oh yes !..you also may want to note that OZONE is also a pretty effective Green House Gas .. high on the list of heat trappers !!
 
Coffee Pods are not recyclable and are allowed to be sold. Meanwhile straws are banned :lol:

If the world is trying to reduce plastic use, why are companies allowed to sell paint in a bag?
Politicians being paid off by lobby groups. There aint no lobby group for straws.

Premier Ready to Roll™
https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/premier-ready-to-roll-interior-eggshell-paint-night-out-3-78-l-0488103p.html
1.jpeg
 
The sheer volume of paint in a bag vs. straws I would expect to be wildly incomparable. Let's say 20 straws make one paint in a bag then there has to be way more straws than 20 times. I remember two years ago they were saying 500 million straws a day, but would they even say 500 paint in a bag in a day?

But I also remember by weight the straws were less than 1% of the plastic.

There ARE ways of producing quickly biodegradable plastic,(Don't used the metal straws, they're deadly. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/07/09/metal-drinking-straw-fatally-impales-woman-england/1684768001/) but when they pass the laws against the grocery bags in California they stop efforts to work those into the stores. I think the straws already existed, but if the government won't cooperate with it coming to market it won't come to market. I notice the straw freedom seems to have returned to California. I have never asked for a straw but I keep getting them. One place did a refill and gave me a new straw.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/07/18/anti-straw-movement-based-unverified-statistic-500-million-day/750563002/
 
markz said:
Where does the atmosphere end and space begin?
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where does climate ends so atmosphere begins? :lol:
 
thanks for the comments :bigthumb:
i see the cause of melting ice caps is above my pay grade :lol: .
i saw a study of tesla model s owners and i was surprised they drove so many miles :shock: despite the high cost of the car, they did the math, and it was worth it to them because they saved so much on gas :bigthumb:
 
Hillhater said:
I suspect anyone with enough money to buy a Tesla, ..is not concerned with saving a buck on gas. :roll:
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i made the same mistake as you just did :lol: I was totally wrong :roll: Successful people know how to manage money and success. :bigthumb: Picture yourself 25-45 single, dating, and doing 75k miles/yr for work which i guess is a sales job. So you need a nice car for clients and dating. Now figure how much gas you use in a suitable gas car, and you will see why they are such a big success. PENNY PINCHING which adds up to i guess millions over a lifetime. 8)
 
Hillhater said:
I suspect anyone with enough money to but a Tesla, ..is not concerned with saving a buck on gas. :roll:
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nope, its just a better car and cheaper to run then what the competition has.
if you can utterly destroy any porsche or ferrari at the lights with a large comfortable luxury sedan that costs a fraction to buy and operate its a no brainer. a 120k electric golf cart can beat a 400k ferrari. at these higher segments people tend to take those specs and notice. even 10+ years there is no "regular" petrol car that can beat a tesla off the line and do it while being economical.

i did fleet managment of about 7000 cars, eventually about 300 were teslas. they were the cheapest to buy, run and sell by FAR. the only thing we had that was cheaper to own was a renault clio diesel with no options or a opel corsa diesel. lets be honest, if you had to choose between a shitty french ecobox or a tesla model S for the same money, what would you choose?
 
flippy said:
Hillhater said:
I suspect anyone with enough money to but a Tesla, ..is not concerned with saving a buck on gas. :roll:
Click to expand...

nope, its just a better car and cheaper to run then what the competition has.
if you can utterly destroy any porsche or ferrari at the lights with a large comfortable luxury sedan that costs a fraction to buy and operate its a no brainer. a 120k electric golf cart can beat a 400k ferrari. at these higher segments people tend to take those specs and notice. even 10+ years there is no "regular" petrol car that can beat a tesla off the line and do it while being economical.

i did fleet managment of about 7000 cars, eventually about 300 were teslas. they were the cheapest to buy, run and sell by FAR. the only thing we had that was cheaper to own was a renault clio diesel with no options or a opel corsa diesel. lets be honest, if you had to choose between a shitty french ecobox or a tesla model S for the same money, what would you choose?
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Great post :bigthumb: i'm giving you top billing for a while :bigthumb:
 
flippy said:
... if you had to choose between a shitty french ecobox or a tesla model S for the same money, what would you choose?
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I guess you are not in fleet management anymore ?
..because with comments like that , you would not last long.
Diesel Corsa same money as a Tesla .. :lol: :lol:
Lets see you numbers on that. !
And as you state , the big draw is Ego at the traffic lights, and in the Bar.

Matt...
... Sales reps doing 75k /yr would normally have a company lease vehicle with fuel and maintenance included.(company Tax advantage) so no monetary advantage to the driver personally
They MAY get an option to chose their car, but often NOT.
 
Hillhater said:
I guess you are not in fleet management anymore ?
..because with comments like that , you would not last long.
Diesel Corsa same money as a Tesla .. :lol: :lol:
Lets see you numbers on that. !
And as you state , the big draw is Ego at the traffic lights, and in the Bar.
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fine, lets compare a model 3 with a bmw 3 series wich we also had a few dozen off and are in the same ballpark. resell time is 2 years/80k km.

we bought ~200 model 3's for around 40k a piece and about 4 dozen bmw 3 series diesel for rougly the same amount. beemers were a more expensive thanks to everything being a optional extra and not getting 1 iota of any form of discount from bmw.
average in maintanance over the 2 years/80k km was batting around 3k for the beemers and 2.5k for the teslas.
road tax: none for the tesla. 1.6k for 2 years for the beemer.
fuel: average for the bmw's was 6L/100km (excluding some "proper" bmw drivers), at 1.50 euro per liter that gives about 10 cents per km or 8k for fuel. the tesla does 150Wh/km and at 20 cents a kWh that give around 2250 for electricity. (we actually paid a lot less as our locations use LOTS of power and get a discount)
resell: the beemers take a nosedive in my country compared to the teslas that hold their value as the beemers are run down and are getting issues after that period.

on average: a bmw 3 series costs 80k to own and operate over 2y/80k and selling it. a tesla does about 35k for that same time/distance. wich is roughly the same as running a clio/corsa diesel for that same period.

so yes, a tesla is half the cost as a comparable car. and they do repairs on site if possible or do pickup and return under the contract wich is VERY welcome as having such large amounts of cars all over the country it adds up to have someone bring cars to dealerships, bmw told us to drop dead basically.

figures for a few dozen model S are basically the same as the resell value matches up, so costs are nearly the same in the end. they just cosume more energy due to their size and lower effciency/older tech then the model 3 has. the total cost difference between a 3 and a S was under 5k on average wich was mostly due to model s drivers chewing up the tires.

your comments indicate that your view on the actual cost of a vehicle is not something you have calculated from a business perspective. not a problem for me, everyone needs to learn such skills in thinking and accounting as it is different from how most people look at buying expensive things and only look at the pricetag in the store, not the cost to operate the thing or resale value. just withhold or dial back your denegrating comments in such a case.
 
The study was a battery life survey. There were S owners with 500k miles in 5 years :shock:
in another car that got, say 20mpg, that is 25,000 gal of gas or at say $3/gal, $75000 for gas. Here in the US the earlier S came with FREE supercharging. so comparing FREE to 75,000 for fuel it is not hard to see why the S was cheaper to own. As to why they drove so much, that is anybodys guess. Resale is very high on all teslas.
Oh, and the cell life was amazing, i forget exactly, but near 90% capacity after 500k miles.
 
Matt Gruber said:
The study was a battery life survey. There were S owners with 500k miles in 5 years :shock:
in another car that got, say 20mpg, that is 25,000 gal of gas or at say $3/gal, $75000 for gas. Here in the US the earlier S came with FREE supercharging. so comparing FREE to 75,000 for fuel it is not hard to see why the S was cheaper to own. As to why they drove so much, that is anybodys guess. Resale is very high on all teslas.
Oh, and the cell life was amazing, i forget exactly, but near 90% capacity after 500k miles.
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there were a couple in my country that were former taxis and they were already batting near the 1 million km (625k freedoms) and one of them still had its original battery. i saw one for sale for 20k or something.

cell life is mostly dependant on charging speed. so AC charging is key for a long and happy battery life.
 
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