X5 spoke breakage solution

[shinyballs]

X5, with all its high performance benefits for electric bicycles, the spoke problem has not yet been fixed. The dishing built in to the hub is a big improvement but the problem still remains...

Solution:
Order an X5 with spoke holes drilled for a 48 spoke tandem wheel. These spoke/wheel combo is made for 2 people and may handle the added weight/torque of the motor. Of course, quality spokes will also be used. I think a 13 gauge DT swiss spoke or similar is more durable than the chinese made 12 gauge spokes that they have in there hub/wheel combo. Because of the type of steel used, the chinese 12g spokes are of low quality steel.



...............

thx fech for fixing me up...

 

[Ypedal]

Have you broken any of the 12 gauge ?

 

[xyster]

Switching to radially laced 12 gauge spokes and a smaller wheel seems to have fixed the problem for me of spokes breaking.

 

[solarbbq2003]

i supply 3.2mm diameter spokes with x5 motors,
mild steel, no breakages.

 

[The7]

How many spokes are used for X5 motor when used for 20", 24" 26" and 700 wheels? (Say 28, 32, 36, 40 or ?)

What are the recommended spoke patterns when used for 20", 24" 26" and 700 wheels? (say Radial, Cross 1, Cross 2, Cross 3, or ?)

Seems it is not possible to use spokes for 16" wheel?

 

[shinyballs]

had broken lots of spokes(14g and 12g), and it is just mostly riding on bad roads and curbs. solarbbq2003, what company makes the spokes and where?

As far as I know, chinese made spokes are not high strength steel. I think there spokes are built to suit there bikes using 36v at slow speeds.

How many spokes are used for X5 motor when used for 20", 24" 26" and 700 wheels? (Say 28, 32, 36, 40 or ?)

X5 motor usually have 36 spoke holes on them.

 

[Lowell]

How much tension were on your spokes when they broke?

 

[shinyballs]

Lowell, I don't know what tension the spoke is before it broke. I just let my LBS true/fix my wheel. I just ordered a Park TM-1 spoke tension meter and hopefully I can do the tensioning myself.

I just spoke to Earl from poweridestore.com, Kenny from Crystalyte said he can have X5 with 48 spoke holes. For the extra work, motor is priced approx $30 higher than regular... I'll be ordering the 5303 and have to wait for mine to arrive till January, combined with Powerides next shipment from China. Expedited shipping is way to high - $150 for 3-day shipping thru DHL.

For those wanting durability for there wheel, this is the way to go.... They should have made it 48 holes from the beginning, and spare us the hardship of changing spokes.

 

[fechter]

Where do the spokes usually break?

 

[disndat]

Hey guys I myself have been breaking alot of spokes.Ever since switching to 24" rim I haven't been able to find good 12 gauge spokes until now.I ordered some 12 gauge from a place called dans comp.I also ordered some 10 gauge spokes from buchanan spokes.I think I will try the 12 gauge first as I'm told I will have to drill out my hub and rim to fit the 10 gauge.I have broken spokes from the nipple side(rim was laced wrong by a LBS) and recently two have broken at the hub(dont know why).These spokes were 14 gauge phil wood.Both have broken within a week of having the wheel made.I dont jump the bike(except for speed bumps )and when I do go over a bump I make sure to stand up over the frame.Hopefully these 12 gauge spokes will do the trick.I'll keep ya posted.

 

[vanilla ice]

Damn 10?? What lengths are you running? I have a few different lengths of motorcycle spokes for reasonable amounts of money if you guys are going that thick. Not sure that they will fit in to a bicycle rim though.

 

[disndat]

Well dans comp should tell their sales guys what they do and dont do because I just got a call back from them explaining that they dont do custom length spokes even though the sales guy I talked to told me that they did.Does anybody know where to get custom length stainless steel 12 gauge spokes!!!!!I think that hub motors should only come with good quality stainless 12 gauge spokes.Oh well I will just have to try the shitty chinese ones first.

 

[vanilla ice]

I've got some buchanan's that I bought in quantity so the price might be better, but like I said they are very thick and I only have a few different lengths. Hit me up on PM if you have the measurements you need. I'm not real sharp on spoke dimensions. I used some when I laced up alloy rims on this Honda:

http://home.mindspring.com/~vanillaice/crap/cl.jpg

 

[disndat]

Are they 12 gauge spokes?If they are I need 77mm and 138mm lengths 36 of each.Buchanan told me that the smallest spokes they make are 10 gauge so that might be what you have.I already ordered what I need so if they are not 12 gauge I dont need them.

Thanks anyways

 

[vanilla ice]

Well the first type I grabbed is 126 thousandths but it steps up to 142 where it would go in to the hub. Is that 10 gauge or what??

This one is 5.575" length center of the pin head end to start of the threads Another .650" thread length ~158mm total length. Theres other ones too. HTF do I measure these things?

 

[shinyballs]

fecht, mostly my spoke breaks near the nipple...

I've also contacted Buchanan with the intention of having them built my wheel but was told that there smallest spoke(10awg) won't fit my rim. I think 10 awg will make it really strong as long as the rim can handle it. Remember we are crossing to the motorcycle world here, motorcycle rims are way stronger than bicycle rims. Using 10g spokes on ordinary rims may crack it or will get pulled cause of too much stress on the rim... these rims are not designed for 10g.

Nevertheless I will try it on my tough MTB downhill rim and putting eyelets after drilling. Eyelets makes it stronger and prevent the spokes from getting pulled out. Anyone knows how to put eyelets on a bike rim?

 

[xyster]

How about using the wheel and tire from a light motorcycle along with the motorcycle spokes?

 

[fechter]

fecht, mostly my spoke breaks near the nipple...

Interesting. I'm just wondering if the reason they break is due to repeated bending. If the spokes and nipples are perfectly straight and wheel load does not cause them to bend or have sideways stresses, it may minimize breakage. Some wheels I've seen look like the nipples are coming out of the rim at an extreme angle.

Do they make nipples with a spherical seat that would accomodate a greater angle? Alternately, it might be possible to angle the hole in the rim to avoid any bending stresses.

Right above the nipple does seem like a natural weak spot due to the threads.

 

[vanilla ice]

The large diameter moped stuff is narrow enough to work well with mt. bike frames. OE rims are mostly steel, so I think you would want after market aluminum rims. But they can be pricey. I think the 17" rims are about right for a 20" bicycle type diameter. I can go measure.

 

[Deepkimchi]

http://www.bookrags.com/history/civil-war-reconstruction-lifestyle-social-fashion/sub2.html

:?

 

[shinyballs]

Do they make nipples with a spherical seat that would accomodate a greater angle? Alternately, it might be possible to angle the hole in the rim to avoid any bending stresses.

Bending spoke holes to accommodate slanting of the nipples may weaken the rim. And the bending angle should be the same all over the wheel, done with precision by a skilled machinist.

The best way is to really build a motorcycle type wheel for the X5 that's compatible with bicycles. But for now, I will just go with the least expensive route.... 48 spokes holes and a Salsa Gordo triple wall rim.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=304873&highlight=salsa+gordo
http://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?id=11023&page=SALSA+GORDO+RIM

 

[shinyballs]

guys... pls help me decide

Has anyone heard or have any experience with http://www.thewheelmaster.com? They are a wheelbuilding shop located in Auburn, WA... and build/repairs wheel for motorcycles, cars, bicycles, etc. spoke to Morry and he said he can build X5 using 9 or 10 gauge spokes. His service includes drilling of the hub and bike rim and lacing of spokes and truing.

This is the wheelset they built -
http://www.thewheelmaster.com/MountGoats.htm

So now, my choices are -
A. 48 spoke hole hub with tandem rim(Salsa Gordo)
B. 9 gauge spokes on regular 36 spoke hole X5

A or B


Note: Going for a 20in rim is not really a viable option for me cause of no rim brake and lowers my top speed. A 5304 on 26in still has a lot of torque. I may use a 20in rim if my base bike has that wheel size and matched with a 5303.

 

[disndat]

well I laced my 20" rim with 12 gauge spokes and I had to drill out the eyelets to make it work.To use the 10 gauge that I bought from buchanann I would have had to drill out the hub.Now I spoke to justin at ebikes about this and he said you have to be careful because he has seen cracked and broken hubs from this(which would be very hard to fix).So I would try the 10 gauge and if you are still breaking spokes then well I dont know what to tell ya :wink:

 

[solarbbq2003]

what about one of these rims,
heavy duty steel and 3.2mm dia spokes, dont think could drill out hub much more than to suit 3.5mm dia spokes, hole required is about 3.9mm dia.
And 6mm dia hole in rim to suit nipples can supply if anyone interested

 

[Deepkimchi]

If you enlarged the holes in the hub you would have to do it towards the inside, not decreasing the amount of metal towards the hub rim.

Time to buy a dremel with a fine point grinder. Couldn't do it with a drill.